Dwarfs too powerful?

By BrooklynMike, in Warhammer Invasion Deck Building

We have recently jumped into LCGs in a big way at our local gaming club ( www.nycwargames.com ), and of course Warhammer Invasion has hit the table. One of our members got 3 Core sets to maximize his build capability, and came out with a Dwarf deck that has proven pretty much unbeatable, at least to Empire and Orcs (what we have gotten a chance to play against them so far).

The combination of the great Neutral cards that protect the capital and the Dwarf cards that repair it, and the very tough damage resistant Dwarfs themselves has some of us muttering that bad word, "Broken".

Admittedly, none of the rest of us has tripled-up the Core set, but it doesn't seem to matter who plays the deck, even when we switch sides they win. My son has developed into a pretty savvy Orc player and I played the Dwarf deck half-heartedly without really trying to exploit every advantage and I STILL won!

I'm hoping this is just because were all pretty new to this game, but is anyone else encountering the overpowering Dwarf syndrome? Or, better yet, has anyone come up with a reasonable counter strategy to the Dwarf strengths?

corrupt them and break out the bloodthirsters!

Orcs have to get a kill in early and quick... empire not sure... a lucky start with some of that power gaining zone swapping tricks can give you an early advantage...

Vermillian is correct that Chaos should prove a highly effective counter to Dwarfs. Corruption takes them out of the game quickly, and the Bloodthirster removes their ability to cancel damage at all, which is a staple of Dwarf decks. Plus their units are, I believe, relatively expensive compared to a lot of the Chaos ones. You can get a lot of mileage out of trading sacrifices for the Bloodthirster.

Orcs should probably focus on their support and development destruction. Dwarfs get a lot of benefit from those cards, you take them out and they get a lot weaker.

Dwarfs are definitely a faction that you can't let them play their game - you have to shut them down. But I think the core problem is the card disparity. Three copies of key powerful cards vs. one or two in the others is going to cause problems. The LCG format puts some handcuffs on Mr. Suitcase, but he's still allowed to play. I'd suggest trying pure starter deck games, or decks created from comparable card pools, before deciding they're broken.

Of course, I'm still looking to get a play group going, so this is all hypothetical. Take it for what it's worth ;)

If you are in the NY / Metro area you should jump in and play with us www.metrowargamers.com

Speaking as one for whom dwarves are my deck of choice, I would have to say that the thing that begins to make me sweat the most is when people start chipping away at my developments and support cards, for sure. Units are all fine and dandy, but most of the power depends on the perks they get from the units in the field. If all else fails, just ravage the Dwarves' kingdom. The good dwarf cards are also expensive - if they don't have the resources to pull them out...well...bloodthirster?

Part of the problem is probably that said Dwarf player has 3 core sets. The game radically changes once you have access to 3 copies of every card. Things speed up and good defense and attack options come up more frequently. So while with one core set he/she may have a nice set of cards to defend his kingdom with 3 sets a player can almost guarantee that they will draw some if not all of what they need in the early rounds. And since such cards are quite cheap to play it can be a bit unsettling to say the least.

My advice vs dwarves is to build up your kingdom and quest areas and then use tactics cards and a horde of units to overwhelm the dwarves. Should you have the chance cripple their kingdom and quest areas so that they do not draw the cards they need nor will they have the resources to pay for them.

I've found taking dwarves out early is the best bet. Orcs have plenty of cards that can get rid of those nasty support pieces.

I'm going to echo everything here. He has maximized his deck, the more choices he has the more he is going to be able to do what he needs to do. 3x Core Set is not needed to beat him per se, but as long as he has a greater card pool things will be a bit unbalanced.Anyone can make a great deck by including 3x Contested Fortress and 3x Keystone Forge in a 50 card deck. You could easily sit back and not defend and still never end up with a burned zone if you get the right cards, it is a defensive lock and no one does it as well as the Dwarves.

When the Battle Packs come out you'll find that your new options will greatly change the turn out of your games. Even if he buys all of them x3 just having a greater variety of cards lets you actually maximize your deck to do what you want, a single Core Set Pure deck is not going to stand up against a x2 constructed deck well, and even worse against a x3, no matter who is play what house.

I'd suggest Building a Empire/Dwarf deck and start moving his developments and units around the field giving him a lot of resources but no card draw. Use burn it down for Contested Fortress and your own CF's and Keystone Forges to protect you from whatever he puts in his battle field. If you are playing Orc then burn down his QZ first. It'll choke his card raw and force him to stick units in there that he can't attack with just to give himself some options. You should be able to do this by turn 2, turn 3 at the latest. Then it is up to you whether you want to go after his BZ or his KZ based on where he starts putting units, again destroy his support cards and developments.

Chaos in this setup is actually probably weakest. You need to corrupt his defenders to be able to get through and deal damage, but have no way of directly removing supports... You might want to think about a Chaos/Orc deck which stalls, destroys supports and developments plays Troll Vomit to clear the board of units and then drops a few major units to hit his unprotected zones.

The Dwarves ARE very powerful, but they take some time to ramp up. Their best cards are all pretty costly to get on the table. I've only had a chance to play one game using them. My opponent (playing Chaos) made a big mistake sitting back and allowing my time to build things up. He initially had me on the ropes and should have kept at it. Once I had the right stuff on the table I was able to win the game in two turns, from no damage to a burning zone each time. It was pretty cool to see come together, but it takes some survival early game.

I've built decks using 2x Core and 3x Skavenblight. I've found Orcs to be the strongest... they are fast, cheap and can kill in 4 turns with most hands. Every hand is a good hand with Orcs.

The Dwarf deck I built is strong...but its too slow on average compared to Orcs, even the one time I managed to get an Ironbreaker out turn 2 (Innovation ftw), wasn't able to stop the non-stop Orcs with their destruction Tactics.

Could you post a decklist from your orc deck?

Keystone Forge x3 and Contested Fortress x3 go a long way to letting you outlast a Rush deck if you can get them in play quickly. I'd also give some thought to running Forced March and emptying the Battlefield of the Orcs biggest guns and put them in his QZ. With these 9 cards you have a real chance of just outlasting your opponent, especially if you supplement them with units with Toughness and Stand Your Ground x3.

Orcs are a very fast race and dwarves are slow. You have to find a way to weather the storm.

My toughest games have so far been against the dwarf players, but thet don't always win. To echo a few other posters, the fact that the dwarf player has bought 3 core sets will give him a greater a card pool, and thus greater access to the more powerful cards. If I had multiple copies of Troll Vomit I could make a dangerous Orc Swarm deck....but I don't. It all comes down to card access and deck design, and figuring out the best ways to play against the dwarf player to minimize their opportunities to win the game.