Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

As soon as it was announced, I started running a XXXX list that proxied it. After some tweaking, it's proven to be quite competent. I don't know if it's Tier 1 level, but it's won me around 80% of the games I've flown it, maybe more. It is beatable but is really quite tough, and for me, really demonstrates the value of Integrated Astromech.

Running 5 T-65s with IA at 100pts sounds like it would be pretty broken, to be honest. For now, I'm pleased with the fix. I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more of the T-65 in the upcoming season.

No my knowledge is just less biased towards skew end whining.

Any of the ships that can take BB-8 and PTL can do this trick. Doesn't matter if they are 'better' doing something else, Wedge is one of the few Xs that really benefits because his ability is purely focused towards offense. Corran would be just as dangerous and for an extra 2 points gets to shoot again with a target lock. Wedge is a very expensive, PS9, one trick pony. Throwing engine upgrade as well as BB-8 and PTL on any T-65 widens the range of actions that it can take, but also massively increases the point cost. Wedge is already expensive for his ability, which is replicated by a 1 point EPT, an extra 9 points on a fragile target like a T-65 is just painting a bigger bullseye on him. Without IA he will be 2 points overcosted (more if you put EU as it's not worth 4) and more fragile.

BB-8 is a legitimate choice with most PTL aces but on the T-65 its limited by the very limited action economy on the ship. On the T-70 it's opens up more options, but again it's a one shot deal and the ace you throw BB-8 on is not going to regen or do anything else.

It's basicaly identical to saying "any ship can take PTL"

Any can, but it's usefullness depends on many things.

Wedge's PS9 is what matters here.

it's not. If you're speaking of Crackshot, it definitely is NOT.

In a world of boostwing it's either you get dodged, or you don't

with this trio of upgrades wede DOESN'T unless he's seeing a PS10 dodger (what means no PTL for the bastard!)

With 3 actions total and no stress coming out

it's my favourite rebel along with Sensor-Horn.

and X-wings need no more fixes.

Fix your skills.

Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

I often think the opposite. It's mainly Imperial players crying that the X-wing is fine as it is, and everyone who actually flies them needs to git gud.

IA doesn't fix the X-wing. Math supports this, people who fly the X-wing already knew this, and next year when the X-wing once again fails to show up at Worlds, FFG might do something about it.

I know the best way to fix the X-Wing. Change the name of the game to PWT. X-Wings are old. In with the new.

it's silly to see people fountain "brilliant ideas"about fixing something that's not there

IA didn't bring 65 to evrery WC list not because "its not enough to git gud"

it's just the problem of "JOUSTERS ARE DEAD MEAT"

that's nowhere near solveable by such primitive methods like "give it a charidan refit as well"

The "perfect fix" for the T-65 would all depend on what you thought was wrong with it...

Do you think it needs fixing because it costs too much for what you get, or...

Do you think that it's in-game performance is not what it should be compared with other ships in the game?

Figure that out and address that in the simplest, most elegant way possible and don't over think it.

These are basically 2 different ways of stating the same problem, though. If 24 points of X-Wing was as good as 24 points of TIE Fighter, the X-Wing would be fine. But that's not the case. Spending points on the X-Wing is- currently- a way to get asymptotically close to good. It simply isn't quite getting there.

One "fix" is the Z-95, where 2 Bandits vs 2 Academy Pilots (24 vs 24) is as close to even as you can get in this game. But sadly that doesn't let us actually get the T-65 on the board.

If you want to see the T-65 on the table (outside casual play), you need to make it gives as good a value as you're spending points on it, relative to all other things in this game you can spend points on.

Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

I often think the opposite. It's mainly Imperial players crying that the X-wing is fine as it is, and everyone who actually flies them needs to git gud.

IA doesn't fix the X-wing. Math supports this, people who fly the X-wing already knew this, and next year when the X-wing once again fails to show up at Worlds, FFG might do something about it.

I dunno, I fly my XXXX list almost exclusively and it's working really well for me against all kinds of opponents within my local meta. It doesn't have to win at Worlds for me to have a lot of fun with it, and not be handicapped in any perceptible way with it.

Oh, and I've been playing X-Wing for about 4 months now, against far more experienced opponents flying plenty of meta-defining lists. I guess it's not the list, I'm just that good! LOL ;-)

Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

I often think the opposite. It's mainly Imperial players crying that the X-wing is fine as it is, and everyone who actually flies them needs to git gud.

IA doesn't fix the X-wing. Math supports this, people who fly the X-wing already knew this, and next year when the X-wing once again fails to show up at Worlds, FFG might do something about it.

I dunno, I fly my XXXX list almost exclusively and it's working really well for me against all kinds of opponents within my local meta. It doesn't have to win at Worlds for me to have a lot of fun with it, and not be handicapped in any perceptible way with it.

Here is a test to see if IA has fixed the X-wing.

Here are 30 Points of Darth Vader:

Darth Vader + title + ATC.

Here are 35 points of Soontir Fel:

Fel + PTL + Autothrusters + Stealth Device.

Those are two top tier monsters, some variation of which made it into the top 16 3x at Worlds this year, and one list including both made top 4.

Now, make me a Wedge capable of competing with the 30 point Vader or 35 point Soontir, and tell me you honestly believe that he'd make top 4 at Worlds.

EDIT: and if you say BB8 + PTL + IA I reserve the right to reply with nothing but derisive laughter.

I wouldn't mind seeing the 65 get a title or modification that gives it a technology slot with cost reduction. It was supposed to be a fairly advanced fighter, and we need something to technologically bridge the Rebels and the Resistance.

Having integrated astromech and a technology modification would be sweet. But I don't think that fixes its problem of not having reactive movement.

Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

I often think the opposite. It's mainly Imperial players crying that the X-wing is fine as it is, and everyone who actually flies them needs to git gud.

IA doesn't fix the X-wing. Math supports this, people who fly the X-wing already knew this, and next year when the X-wing once again fails to show up at Worlds, FFG might do something about it.

I dunno, I fly my XXXX list almost exclusively and it's working really well for me against all kinds of opponents within my local meta. It doesn't have to win at Worlds for me to have a lot of fun with it, and not be handicapped in any perceptible way with it.

Here is a test to see if IA has fixed the X-wing.

Here are 30 Points of Darth Vader:

Darth Vader + title + ATC.

Here are 35 points of Soontir Fel:

Fel + PTL + Autothrusters + Stealth Device.

Those are two top tier monsters, some variation of which made it into the top 16 3x at Worlds this year, and one list including both made top 4.

Now, make me a Wedge capable of competing with the 30 point Vader or 35 point Soontir, and tell me you honestly believe that he'd make top 4 at Worlds.

EDIT: and if you say BB8 + PTL + IA I reserve the right to reply with nothing but derisive laughter.

arcdodgers.

PS9 arcdodgers

both double-actioning boosting rolling monsters.

(you forgot the EU on vader)

X wings are JOUSTERS

Jousters are almost extinct.

it' s not T-65 problem. it's game design problem.

you need to "fix" EVERY JOUSTER out there.

and you're obsessed with 65s

BB8 + PTL +EU. IA is for 22-point rookies. EU is for PS8+ acewing.

Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

I often think the opposite. It's mainly Imperial players crying that the X-wing is fine as it is, and everyone who actually flies them needs to git gud.

IA doesn't fix the X-wing. Math supports this, people who fly the X-wing already knew this, and next year when the X-wing once again fails to show up at Worlds, FFG might do something about it.

I dunno, I fly my XXXX list almost exclusively and it's working really well for me against all kinds of opponents within my local meta. It doesn't have to win at Worlds for me to have a lot of fun with it, and not be handicapped in any perceptible way with it.

Here is a test to see if IA has fixed the X-wing.

Here are 30 Points of Darth Vader:

Darth Vader + title + ATC.

Here are 35 points of Soontir Fel:

Fel + PTL + Autothrusters + Stealth Device.

Those are two top tier monsters, some variation of which made it into the top 16 3x at Worlds this year, and one list including both made top 4.

Now, make me a Wedge capable of competing with the 30 point Vader or 35 point Soontir, and tell me you honestly believe that he'd make top 4 at Worlds.

EDIT: and if you say BB8 + PTL + IA I reserve the right to reply with nothing but derisive laughter.

arcdodgers.

PS9 arcdodgers

both double-actioning boosting rolling monsters.

(you forgot the EU on vader)

X wings are JOUSTERS

Jousters are almost extinct.

it' s not T-65 problem. it's game design problem.

you need to "fix" EVERY JOUSTER out there.

and you're obsessed with 65s

BB8 + PTL +EU. IA is for 22-point rookies. EU is for PS8+ acewing.

Ok then, in that case your Wedge is 38 points and still worse than either Darth or Fel. So um... remind me again, how is that not a problem with the T-65?

As for claiming jousters are extinct, that's patently ridiculous.

Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

I often think the opposite. It's mainly Imperial players crying that the X-wing is fine as it is, and everyone who actually flies them needs to git gud.

IA doesn't fix the X-wing. Math supports this, people who fly the X-wing already knew this, and next year when the X-wing once again fails to show up at Worlds, FFG might do something about it.

I dunno, I fly my XXXX list almost exclusively and it's working really well for me against all kinds of opponents within my local meta. It doesn't have to win at Worlds for me to have a lot of fun with it, and not be handicapped in any perceptible way with it.

Here is a test to see if IA has fixed the X-wing.

Here are 30 Points of Darth Vader:

Darth Vader + title + ATC.

Here are 35 points of Soontir Fel:

Fel + PTL + Autothrusters + Stealth Device.

Those are two top tier monsters, some variation of which made it into the top 16 3x at Worlds this year, and one list including both made top 4.

Now, make me a Wedge capable of competing with the 30 point Vader or 35 point Soontir, and tell me you honestly believe that he'd make top 4 at Worlds.

EDIT: and if you say BB8 + PTL + IA I reserve the right to reply with nothing but derisive laughter.

arcdodgers.

PS9 arcdodgers

both double-actioning boosting rolling monsters.

(you forgot the EU on vader)

X wings are JOUSTERS

Jousters are almost extinct.

it' s not T-65 problem. it's game design problem.

you need to "fix" EVERY JOUSTER out there.

and you're obsessed with 65s

BB8 + PTL +EU. IA is for 22-point rookies. EU is for PS8+ acewing.

Ok then, in that case your Wedge is 38 points and still worse than either Darth or Fel. So um... remind me again, how is that not a problem with the T-65?

As for claiming jousters are extinct, that's patently ridiculous.

Not worse. he's anti-dodger.

he's not dodging and nobody does when he's around. In most cases he dishes out his 3-4 dice with TL+Focus. and ****, you never want to eb at the receiving end.

yeah, tell us how many jousting lists came to the world top 16, give it a try.

or better yet look at the finals.

Jousters ARE extinct. Black-crack swarm is nice but nowhere near powerful as the TLT-Acewing nor were they as powerful as the PWT+Acewing before TLTs went out

Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

I often think the opposite. It's mainly Imperial players crying that the X-wing is fine as it is, and everyone who actually flies them needs to git gud.

IA doesn't fix the X-wing. Math supports this, people who fly the X-wing already knew this, and next year when the X-wing once again fails to show up at Worlds, FFG might do something about it.

I dunno, I fly my XXXX list almost exclusively and it's working really well for me against all kinds of opponents within my local meta. It doesn't have to win at Worlds for me to have a lot of fun with it, and not be handicapped in any perceptible way with it.

Here is a test to see if IA has fixed the X-wing.

Here are 30 Points of Darth Vader:

Darth Vader + title + ATC.

Here are 35 points of Soontir Fel:

Fel + PTL + Autothrusters + Stealth Device.

Those are two top tier monsters, some variation of which made it into the top 16 3x at Worlds this year, and one list including both made top 4.

Now, make me a Wedge capable of competing with the 30 point Vader or 35 point Soontir, and tell me you honestly believe that he'd make top 4 at Worlds.

EDIT: and if you say BB8 + PTL + IA I reserve the right to reply with nothing but derisive laughter.

arcdodgers.

PS9 arcdodgers

both double-actioning boosting rolling monsters.

(you forgot the EU on vader)

X wings are JOUSTERS

Jousters are almost extinct.

it' s not T-65 problem. it's game design problem.

you need to "fix" EVERY JOUSTER out there.

and you're obsessed with 65s

BB8 + PTL +EU. IA is for 22-point rookies. EU is for PS8+ acewing.

Ok then, in that case your Wedge is 38 points and still worse than either Darth or Fel. So um... remind me again, how is that not a problem with the T-65?

As for claiming jousters are extinct, that's patently ridiculous.

Not worse. he's anti-dodger.

he's not dodging and nobody does when he's around. In most cases he dishes out his 3-4 dice with TL+Focus. and ****, you never want to eb at the receiving end.

yeah, tell us how many jousting lists came to the world top 16, give it a try.

or better yet look at the finals.

Jousters ARE extinct. Black-crack swarm is nice but nowhere near powerful as the TLT-Acewing nor were they as powerful as the PWT+Acewing before TLTs went out

Remind me how an X-wing locked to exclusively 1 banks and 1and 2 forewards is an 'anti-dodger'. I'm fairly sure Soontir isn't going to give a **** if you trundle along at low speed occasionally barrel rolling here or there. He'll just get behind you, and then you'll never shake him off without a K-turn, at which point you lose BB8 for two turns.

EDIT: Whisper + Howl swarm made top 16. As did Dallas Parker, who was literally flying a TIE Swarm. That's infinite more times than Wedge, or any other X-wing.

Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

I often think the opposite. It's mainly Imperial players crying that the X-wing is fine as it is, and everyone who actually flies them needs to git gud.

IA doesn't fix the X-wing. Math supports this, people who fly the X-wing already knew this, and next year when the X-wing once again fails to show up at Worlds, FFG might do something about it.

I dunno, I fly my XXXX list almost exclusively and it's working really well for me against all kinds of opponents within my local meta. It doesn't have to win at Worlds for me to have a lot of fun with it, and not be handicapped in any perceptible way with it.

Here is a test to see if IA has fixed the X-wing.

Here are 30 Points of Darth Vader:

Darth Vader + title + ATC.

Here are 35 points of Soontir Fel:

Fel + PTL + Autothrusters + Stealth Device.

Those are two top tier monsters, some variation of which made it into the top 16 3x at Worlds this year, and one list including both made top 4.

Now, make me a Wedge capable of competing with the 30 point Vader or 35 point Soontir, and tell me you honestly believe that he'd make top 4 at Worlds.

EDIT: and if you say BB8 + PTL + IA I reserve the right to reply with nothing but derisive laughter.

arcdodgers.

PS9 arcdodgers

both double-actioning boosting rolling monsters.

(you forgot the EU on vader)

X wings are JOUSTERS

Jousters are almost extinct.

it' s not T-65 problem. it's game design problem.

you need to "fix" EVERY JOUSTER out there.

and you're obsessed with 65s

BB8 + PTL +EU. IA is for 22-point rookies. EU is for PS8+ acewing.

Ok then, in that case your Wedge is 38 points and still worse than either Darth or Fel. So um... remind me again, how is that not a problem with the T-65?

As for claiming jousters are extinct, that's patently ridiculous.

Not worse. he's anti-dodger.

he's not dodging and nobody does when he's around. In most cases he dishes out his 3-4 dice with TL+Focus. and ****, you never want to eb at the receiving end.

yeah, tell us how many jousting lists came to the world top 16, give it a try.

or better yet look at the finals.

Jousters ARE extinct. Black-crack swarm is nice but nowhere near powerful as the TLT-Acewing nor were they as powerful as the PWT+Acewing before TLTs went out

Remind me how an X-wing locked to exclusively 1 banks and 1and 2 forewards is an 'anti-dodger'. I'm fairly sure Soontir isn't going to give a **** if you trundle along at low speed occasionally barrel rolling here or there. He'll just get behind you, and then you'll never shake him off without a K-turn, at which point you lose BB8 for two turns.

First of all soontir needs to get close enough to get behind.

and 1-2 turns of Batwedge +DoubleTLT or Batwedge+Poe+StressY is more than enough to turn the freak into molten slag of damage cards.

he's not getting behind unless you're too eager to get too close and too fast.

the barrel_back+Bank allows it to almost stay in the same place, only slightly shifting forwards and outwards.

NOBODY evades his burning gaze.

Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

I often think the opposite. It's mainly Imperial players crying that the X-wing is fine as it is, and everyone who actually flies them needs to git gud.

IA doesn't fix the X-wing. Math supports this, people who fly the X-wing already knew this, and next year when the X-wing once again fails to show up at Worlds, FFG might do something about it.

I dunno, I fly my XXXX list almost exclusively and it's working really well for me against all kinds of opponents within my local meta. It doesn't have to win at Worlds for me to have a lot of fun with it, and not be handicapped in any perceptible way with it.

Here is a test to see if IA has fixed the X-wing.

Here are 30 Points of Darth Vader:

Darth Vader + title + ATC.

Here are 35 points of Soontir Fel:

Fel + PTL + Autothrusters + Stealth Device.

Those are two top tier monsters, some variation of which made it into the top 16 3x at Worlds this year, and one list including both made top 4.

Now, make me a Wedge capable of competing with the 30 point Vader or 35 point Soontir, and tell me you honestly believe that he'd make top 4 at Worlds.

EDIT: and if you say BB8 + PTL + IA I reserve the right to reply with nothing but derisive laughter.

arcdodgers.

PS9 arcdodgers

both double-actioning boosting rolling monsters.

(you forgot the EU on vader)

X wings are JOUSTERS

Jousters are almost extinct.

it' s not T-65 problem. it's game design problem.

you need to "fix" EVERY JOUSTER out there.

and you're obsessed with 65s

BB8 + PTL +EU. IA is for 22-point rookies. EU is for PS8+ acewing.

Ok then, in that case your Wedge is 38 points and still worse than either Darth or Fel. So um... remind me again, how is that not a problem with the T-65?

As for claiming jousters are extinct, that's patently ridiculous.

Not worse. he's anti-dodger.

he's not dodging and nobody does when he's around. In most cases he dishes out his 3-4 dice with TL+Focus. and ****, you never want to eb at the receiving end.

yeah, tell us how many jousting lists came to the world top 16, give it a try.

or better yet look at the finals.

Jousters ARE extinct. Black-crack swarm is nice but nowhere near powerful as the TLT-Acewing nor were they as powerful as the PWT+Acewing before TLTs went out

Remind me how an X-wing locked to exclusively 1 banks and 1and 2 forewards is an 'anti-dodger'. I'm fairly sure Soontir isn't going to give a **** if you trundle along at low speed occasionally barrel rolling here or there. He'll just get behind you, and then you'll never shake him off without a K-turn, at which point you lose BB8 for two turns.

First of all soontir needs to get close enough to get behind.

and 1-2 turns of Batwedge +DoubleTLT or Batwedge+Poe+StressY is more than enough to turn the freak into molten slag of damage cards.

he's not getting behind unless you're too eager to get too close and too fast.

the barrel_back+Bank allows it to almost stay in the same place, only slightly shifting forwards and outwards.

NOBODY evades his burning gaze.

No idea who you fly against, but Soontir is going to get behind *any* ship that refuses to move in nothing but one banks. At most you get one long range shot, before he dives in with 5 straight + boost + barrel roll, and then you die because him and Darth Vader both shoot you, and you've only 5 health behind 2 agility, because you eschewed the only thing that might possibly qualify as an X-wing buff, so you die, and rapidly lose patience with people who never fly X-wings telling you to suck it up and git gud.

Have those criticizing the Integrated Astromech mod actually testflown it much yet?

I often think the opposite. It's mainly Imperial players crying that the X-wing is fine as it is, and everyone who actually flies them needs to git gud.

IA doesn't fix the X-wing. Math supports this, people who fly the X-wing already knew this, and next year when the X-wing once again fails to show up at Worlds, FFG might do something about it.

I dunno, I fly my XXXX list almost exclusively and it's working really well for me against all kinds of opponents within my local meta. It doesn't have to win at Worlds for me to have a lot of fun with it, and not be handicapped in any perceptible way with it.

Here is a test to see if IA has fixed the X-wing.

Here are 30 Points of Darth Vader:

Darth Vader + title + ATC.

Here are 35 points of Soontir Fel:

Fel + PTL + Autothrusters + Stealth Device.

Those are two top tier monsters, some variation of which made it into the top 16 3x at Worlds this year, and one list including both made top 4.

Now, make me a Wedge capable of competing with the 30 point Vader or 35 point Soontir, and tell me you honestly believe that he'd make top 4 at Worlds.

EDIT: and if you say BB8 + PTL + IA I reserve the right to reply with nothing but derisive laughter.

arcdodgers.

PS9 arcdodgers

both double-actioning boosting rolling monsters.

(you forgot the EU on vader)

X wings are JOUSTERS

Jousters are almost extinct.

it' s not T-65 problem. it's game design problem.

you need to "fix" EVERY JOUSTER out there.

and you're obsessed with 65s

BB8 + PTL +EU. IA is for 22-point rookies. EU is for PS8+ acewing.

Ok then, in that case your Wedge is 38 points and still worse than either Darth or Fel. So um... remind me again, how is that not a problem with the T-65?

As for claiming jousters are extinct, that's patently ridiculous.

Not worse. he's anti-dodger.

he's not dodging and nobody does when he's around. In most cases he dishes out his 3-4 dice with TL+Focus. and ****, you never want to eb at the receiving end.

yeah, tell us how many jousting lists came to the world top 16, give it a try.

or better yet look at the finals.

Jousters ARE extinct. Black-crack swarm is nice but nowhere near powerful as the TLT-Acewing nor were they as powerful as the PWT+Acewing before TLTs went out

Remind me how an X-wing locked to exclusively 1 banks and 1and 2 forewards is an 'anti-dodger'. I'm fairly sure Soontir isn't going to give a **** if you trundle along at low speed occasionally barrel rolling here or there. He'll just get behind you, and then you'll never shake him off without a K-turn, at which point you lose BB8 for two turns.

First of all soontir needs to get close enough to get behind.

and 1-2 turns of Batwedge +DoubleTLT or Batwedge+Poe+StressY is more than enough to turn the freak into molten slag of damage cards.

he's not getting behind unless you're too eager to get too close and too fast.

the barrel_back+Bank allows it to almost stay in the same place, only slightly shifting forwards and outwards.

NOBODY evades his burning gaze.

No idea who you fly against, but Soontir is going to get behind *any* ship that refuses to move in nothing but one banks. At most you get one long range shot, before he dives in with 5 straight + boost + barrel roll, and then you die because him and Darth Vader both shoot you, and you've only 5 health behind 2 agility, because you eschewed the only thing that might possibly qualify as an X-wing buff, so you die, and rapidly lose patience with people who never fly X-wings telling you to suck it up and git gud.

as a proud owner of 6 T-65's I smiled at that.

with BB-8 we got ourselves a rigid bro of adv sensor, but without the "no action during perform action step: part.

and THIS IS THE BUFF and not the IA. IA is for low PS Jouster-grunts.

and they are dead meat.

Extinct.

Field-tested both Double-Batman and Rebel Cerberus lists both having the 38-point Batwedge.

they don't fear the acewing, they fear the swarm.

Extinct.

You see, you keep saying that, but sadly words tend to have meanings, and 'showing up twice in the top 16 lists at the world championship of all of X-Wing' would not fit my definition of extinct.

You know what would? Wedge with BB8 PTL and EU showing up approximately 0 times AT ALL at worlds.

This means one of two things:

1) you're a super genius and you were the only person to think of this combo in time for worlds, which you sadly were unable to attend

2) Wedge with BB8 PTL and EU is a waste of a perfectly good 38 points.

It's basicaly identical to saying "any ship can take PTL"

Any can, but it's usefullness depends on many things.

Wedge's PS9 is what matters here.

it's not. If you're speaking of Crackshot, it definitely is NOT.

In a world of boostwing it's either you get dodged, or you don't

with this trio of upgrades wede DOESN'T unless he's seeing a PS10 dodger (what means no PTL for the bastard!)

With 3 actions total and no stress coming out

it's my favourite rebel along with Sensor-Horn.

and X-wings need no more fixes.

Fix your skills.

Fix your logic.

Any ship with an EPT can take PTL. But having PS9 is not a critical to arc dodging. Even lower pilot skill ships can dodge BB-8 Wedge, who will be slow greening most turns if he wants to use BB-8, especially if they have a good range of maneuver options. Several of the Interceptor pilots, A Wing test pilots and Phantoms say hi. Much as I like the idea of EU, BB-8, PTL Wedge, he is overly expensive for what he does and competes fairly poorly if you limit yourself to ace/boostwing.

And crack shot may only be a one-use EPT but it does replicate Wedge's ability, it's actually more powerful situationally because you choose which dice to use it on. Granted, Wedge gets a similar effect every turn. But it's not offensive power the X lacks.

There's also a bomber pilot coming soon which will do the same thing with crack shot. So sad for Wedge

Not worse. he's anti-dodger.

he's not dodging and nobody does when he's around. In most cases he dishes out his 3-4 dice with TL+Focus. and ****, you never want to eb at the receiving end.

yeah, tell us how many jousting lists came to the world top 16, give it a try.

or better yet look at the finals.

Jousters ARE extinct. Black-crack swarm is nice but nowhere near powerful as the TLT-Acewing nor were they as powerful as the PWT+Acewing before TLTs went out

Ok, you can't have it both ways. Tell us how many BB-8 Wedges were in the top 16, compared to high PS arc-dodging lists, as well as everything else. If jousters are extinct, how does a jouster become the anti-dodger, simply by the combination of BB-8, PTL and EU? If it was that simple you'd have seen this in every meta since the new core was released and there'd be threads complaining about super-wedge. BB-8, PTL, AT Poe isn't the new meta despite being better in just about every respect than BB-8 Wedge. As has been said, if you fly into the teeth of any 3/4 dice attack with TL/F you are likely to get hit. OTOH anyone can focus Wedge down in a turn or two max, it's only an X Wing, as has been said.

It's basicaly identical to saying "any ship can take PTL"

Any can, but it's usefullness depends on many things.

Wedge's PS9 is what matters here.

it's not. If you're speaking of Crackshot, it definitely is NOT.

In a world of boostwing it's either you get dodged, or you don't

with this trio of upgrades wede DOESN'T unless he's seeing a PS10 dodger (what means no PTL for the bastard!)

With 3 actions total and no stress coming out

it's my favourite rebel along with Sensor-Horn.

and X-wings need no more fixes.

Fix your skills.

Fix your logic.

Any ship with an EPT can take PTL. But having PS9 is not a critical to arc dodging. Even lower pilot skill ships can dodge BB-8 Wedge, who will be slow greening most turns if he wants to use BB-8, especially if they have a good range of maneuver options. Several of the Interceptor pilots, A Wing test pilots and Phantoms say hi. Much as I like the idea of EU, BB-8, PTL Wedge, he is overly expensive for what he does and competes fairly poorly if you limit yourself to ace/boostwing.

And crack shot may only be a one-use EPT but it does replicate Wedge's ability, it's actually more powerful situationally because you choose which dice to use it on. Granted, Wedge gets a similar effect every turn. But it's not offensive power the X lacks.

There's also a bomber pilot coming soon which will do the same thing with crack shot. So sad for Wedge

Not worse. he's anti-dodger.

he's not dodging and nobody does when he's around. In most cases he dishes out his 3-4 dice with TL+Focus. and ****, you never want to eb at the receiving end.

yeah, tell us how many jousting lists came to the world top 16, give it a try.

or better yet look at the finals.

Jousters ARE extinct. Black-crack swarm is nice but nowhere near powerful as the TLT-Acewing nor were they as powerful as the PWT+Acewing before TLTs went out

Ok, you can't have it both ways. Tell us how many BB-8 Wedges were in the top 16, compared to high PS arc-dodging lists, as well as everything else. If jousters are extinct, how does a jouster become the anti-dodger, simply by the combination of BB-8, PTL and EU? If it was that simple you'd have seen this in every meta since the new core was released and there'd be threads complaining about super-wedge. BB-8, PTL, AT Poe isn't the new meta despite being better in just about every respect than BB-8 Wedge. As has been said, if you fly into the teeth of any 3/4 dice attack with TL/F you are likely to get hit. OTOH anyone can focus Wedge down in a turn or two max, it's only an X Wing, as has been said.

Any ship with EPT can take PTL, but somehow Interceptor uses it better than some Y-wing, because greens aren't as abundant.

arcdodgers love PS9 because that's the top without VI, that teats up a PS8+ EPT

Having PS9 IS critical for arcdodging, because you do know where the enemy is.

without miraculous foresight.

phantom used to be THE arcdodger #1. now it's a jouster, and guess what? From "seen in half of lists" he went down to "sometimes seen in fun play"

Oh yeah, Jousters.

Crack shot is actually better than Wedge in some places, worse at others. Wedge says "hi" to C3PO on Doni or Falcons.

Crackshot is specifically good against token-stacks because it's used in the compare result step.

not_identical.

Razzi lets 1-2 ships "feel themselves Wedge" that's for sure.

Arc dodgers require a skill higher than that of enemy.

Jousters can't really alter their pre-set maneuvers.

BB-8 mimicks adv sensors, allowing you to re-position beforehand KNOWING where the enemy is thanks to high PS wedge boasts.

Plus to that, it allows ou to avoid blocks, take an action byPTLing and then bumping, forfeiting another action for abilityto NOT get shot by a single foe at all.

It allows to REACT. you're not dodging arcs, but you're always getting the shot. Something arcdodgers try to avoid.

Poe is best suited for a specific focus-eating droid that comes greatly with his ability.

and VI allows him to get into PS10, rubbing middle finger into PS9 dodgers.

it's a childs play arcdodging with barrel+boost

but dodging without knowing where the foe is? Foresight.

Something Poe player might also have.

And if you keep ignoring the fact that meta is ruled by PS8+ that's your own demons, keep them to yourself.

FFG didn't like the jouster meta of wave 1-2-3

They seem to just like acewing. and don't seem to even bother seeking balance.

and there's nothing else we can do about it other than spam TLTs or Crack swarmers

Warpman, the Phantom appearing twice in top 16 at Worlds is not "sometimes seen in fun play." Stop being silly.

Keyan, wedge, Biggs has been doing well for me. Honestly it has always been decent.

lol

It's basicaly identical to saying "any ship can take PTL"

Any can, but it's usefullness depends on many things.

Wedge's PS9 is what matters here.

it's not. If you're speaking of Crackshot, it definitely is NOT.

In a world of boostwing it's either you get dodged, or you don't

with this trio of upgrades wede DOESN'T unless he's seeing a PS10 dodger (what means no PTL for the bastard!)

With 3 actions total and no stress coming out

it's my favourite rebel along with Sensor-Horn.

and X-wings need no more fixes.

Fix your skills.

Fix your logic.

Any ship with an EPT can take PTL. But having PS9 is not a critical to arc dodging. Even lower pilot skill ships can dodge BB-8 Wedge, who will be slow greening most turns if he wants to use BB-8, especially if they have a good range of maneuver options. Several of the Interceptor pilots, A Wing test pilots and Phantoms say hi. Much as I like the idea of EU, BB-8, PTL Wedge, he is overly expensive for what he does and competes fairly poorly if you limit yourself to ace/boostwing.

And crack shot may only be a one-use EPT but it does replicate Wedge's ability, it's actually more powerful situationally because you choose which dice to use it on. Granted, Wedge gets a similar effect every turn. But it's not offensive power the X lacks.

There's also a bomber pilot coming soon which will do the same thing with crack shot. So sad for Wedge

Not worse. he's anti-dodger.

he's not dodging and nobody does when he's around. In most cases he dishes out his 3-4 dice with TL+Focus. and ****, you never want to eb at the receiving end.

yeah, tell us how many jousting lists came to the world top 16, give it a try.

or better yet look at the finals.

Jousters ARE extinct. Black-crack swarm is nice but nowhere near powerful as the TLT-Acewing nor were they as powerful as the PWT+Acewing before TLTs went out

Ok, you can't have it both ways. Tell us how many BB-8 Wedges were in the top 16, compared to high PS arc-dodging lists, as well as everything else. If jousters are extinct, how does a jouster become the anti-dodger, simply by the combination of BB-8, PTL and EU? If it was that simple you'd have seen this in every meta since the new core was released and there'd be threads complaining about super-wedge. BB-8, PTL, AT Poe isn't the new meta despite being better in just about every respect than BB-8 Wedge. As has been said, if you fly into the teeth of any 3/4 dice attack with TL/F you are likely to get hit. OTOH anyone can focus Wedge down in a turn or two max, it's only an X Wing, as has been said.

Any ship with EPT can take PTL, but somehow Interceptor uses it better than some Y-wing, because greens aren't as abundant.

arcdodgers love PS9 because that's the top without VI, that teats up a PS8+ EPT

Having PS9 IS critical for arcdodging, because you do know where the enemy is.

without miraculous foresight.

phantom used to be THE arcdodger #1. now it's a jouster, and guess what? From "seen in half of lists" he went down to "sometimes seen in fun play"

Oh yeah, Jousters.

Crack shot is actually better than Wedge in some places, worse at others. Wedge says "hi" to C3PO on Doni or Falcons.

Crackshot is specifically good against token-stacks because it's used in the compare result step.

not_identical.

Razzi lets 1-2 ships "feel themselves Wedge" that's for sure.

Arc dodgers require a skill higher than that of enemy.

Jousters can't really alter their pre-set maneuvers.

BB-8 mimicks adv sensors, allowing you to re-position beforehand KNOWING where the enemy is thanks to high PS wedge boasts.

Plus to that, it allows ou to avoid blocks, take an action byPTLing and then bumping, forfeiting another action for abilityto NOT get shot by a single foe at all.

It allows to REACT. you're not dodging arcs, but you're always getting the shot. Something arcdodgers try to avoid.

Poe is best suited for a specific focus-eating droid that comes greatly with his ability.

and VI allows him to get into PS10, rubbing middle finger into PS9 dodgers.

it's a childs play arcdodging with barrel+boost

but dodging without knowing where the foe is? Foresight.

Something Poe player might also have.

And if you keep ignoring the fact that meta is ruled by PS8+ that's your own demons, keep them to yourself.

FFG didn't like the jouster meta of wave 1-2-3

They seem to just like acewing. and don't seem to even bother seeking balance.

and there's nothing else we can do about it other than spam TLTs or Crack swarmers

VI, R5-P9 Poe won't be dodging many arcs because of his reliance on focus, he isn't an arc-dodger anymore, he's a tanky jouster with high PS. If jousters are dead, then why did this build show up so much? It was popular before Heaver won worlds with it.

Incredible foresight? Or maybe just solid assessment of the situation, the board, the opponent and the range of possibilities, backed up by good judgement. You don't need to move last to beat high PS boost/BR aces.

You said it yourself, arc dodging with high(est) PS as well as barrel roll and boost is child's play. It's the same crutch die hard pre-nerf phantom fanboys relied on. It's easy to say that something isn't broken and everyone else needs to fly better, especially if instead of skill and foresight, flying your ship just required a multiple choice question to which you already knew the answer. The phantom nerf just brought the ship back down to the same level as all the other ships in the game. You need some skill and judgement to fly it now. High PS arc-dodgers use some of that crutch to survive, they have to because they are usually so fragile. But they can be beat.

Whose meta? The last store tourney I went to last month had Fat PWTs, scum TLT Ys spam, 4 ace Kytxvczvxctyks, Rebel 3 and 4 ship, Imp aces, phantom and mini swarm, Firespray and mini swarm and a bunch of others I dont remember. The list that won was a Tarn, Hobbie, Dutch and Tala list. So it's pretty diverse from my point of view. YMMV but maybe instead of chasing the Acewing/Boostwing bandwagon you should experiment and get diverse. More fun to be had thataway.

This thread has some serious quote ziggurats going on. Fairly difficult to climb them, so TL;DR.

Field-tested both Double-Batman and Rebel Cerberus lists both having

Um, huh? I was able to see what tha hell BatWedge was supposed to be, but whatever netlists these are supposed to be I just don't know.

Too much lingo...

This thread has some serious quote ziggurats going on. Fairly difficult to climb them, so TL;DR.

TL;DR Some people think X-wings need more than IA, some think they don't.