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By Stag Lord, in 1. AGoT General Discussion

Old Ben said:

Red Vengence is too strong imho, i think that the charchter from talons was so much fairer because you had more chances to deal with the card. Events are still hard to cancel in the enviroment and it can´t be picked by an intrigue challenge unless your opponent wants to take the risk of losing the event..

I agree that Red Vengence looks a little too potent. But am I correct in thinking it is pointless to use against a Power challenge in Joust? Wouldn't the attacker-turned-defender just pay the stolen power back to himself?

LetsGoRed said:

Old Ben said:

Red Vengence is too strong imho, i think that the charchter from talons was so much fairer because you had more chances to deal with the card. Events are still hard to cancel in the enviroment and it can´t be picked by an intrigue challenge unless your opponent wants to take the risk of losing the event..

I agree that Red Vengence looks a little too potent. But am I correct in thinking it is pointless to use against a Power challenge in Joust? Wouldn't the attacker-turned-defender just pay the stolen power back to himself?

Suddenly, "The Hand's Judgment" could see some play....

But yes, as written, the "attacker" does not change when Red Vengeance is used. Not only is the original attacker's claim number used, but they are still the recipient of any moved power in a power challenge. So yes, if you use this event in Joust during a power challenge, the attacker-settling-claim will not experience a net power loss. However, they will not experience a net power gain , either. It may not end up being pointless near the end-game (if that X power they would have stolen from you would mean the win).

Egg said:

Has anyone heard whether there is going to be "Something for everyone", similar to the KotS ? Perhaps some more traited plots, Kingdom locations, Learned Crest support, or neutral attachment controll?

I'll bet there will be plenty of neutrals that can be used by anyone.

For example, there was a mention of "Oakhearts" making an appearance in the article. If that means a reprint of Arys, there are only 2 to choose from; a neutral and a dual House (Lanni/Martell). Either one would probably be as welcome, if not moreso, in a Lannister deck as in a Martell.

ktom said:

LetsGoRed said:

Old Ben said:

Red Vengence is too strong imho, i think that the charchter from talons was so much fairer because you had more chances to deal with the card. Events are still hard to cancel in the enviroment and it can´t be picked by an intrigue challenge unless your opponent wants to take the risk of losing the event..

I agree that Red Vengence looks a little too potent. But am I correct in thinking it is pointless to use against a Power challenge in Joust? Wouldn't the attacker-turned-defender just pay the stolen power back to himself?

Suddenly, "The Hand's Judgment" could see some play....

But yes, as written, the "attacker" does not change when Red Vengeance is used. Not only is the original attacker's claim number used, but they are still the recipient of any moved power in a power challenge. So yes, if you use this event in Joust during a power challenge, the attacker-settling-claim will not experience a net power loss. However, they will not experience a net power gain , either. It may not end up being pointless near the end-game (if that X power they would have stolen from you would mean the win).

Oops, of course. And end game or against a 2 claim plot, that's a very strong effect. This card makes other claim manipulation effects in the LCG environment look like jokes. This card seems a bit much for 2 influence.

ktom said:

Suddenly, "The Hand's Judgment" could see some play....

is this tongue in cheek? hand's judgment has saved my bacon a bunch.

Lars said:

ktom said:

Suddenly, "The Hand's Judgment" could see some play....

is this tongue in cheek? hand's judgment has saved my bacon a bunch.

I'm sure it has. It's a great card. But at the same time, it doesn't see a lot of general play (at least in my experience). Given all the calls for neutral event cancel (remember all the hopes for Paper Shield to be reprinted?) I would have expected to see it in more decks than I do.

Personally, I think there is some sort of mental hurdle involved with the 1-gold cost for a lot of people. In general, events with gold costs seem to be seen as less reliable.

ktom said:

Egg said:

Has anyone heard whether there is going to be "Something for everyone", similar to the KotS ? Perhaps some more traited plots, Kingdom locations, Learned Crest support, or neutral attachment controll?

I'll bet there will be plenty of neutrals that can be used by anyone.

For example, there was a mention of "Oakhearts" making an appearance in the article. If that means a reprint of Arys, there are only 2 to choose from; a neutral and a dual House (Lanni/Martell). Either one would probably be as welcome, if not moreso, in a Lannister deck as in a Martell.

That dual-house Arys Oakheart was a must for all of my Martell decks, and I'd love to see him back in this set. In fact, I'd love to see more dual house characters. The Theon and Eddard that are less gold in a related house are nice and nedly, but I love dual-house characters and want to see more in the game.

Displaced Dornishmen was a terrible revenge effect. Sure I could make you pay claim ALSO at the expense of an additional card. DD didn't even create parity, I was still always on the losing end of the effect, which is why it saw so little play, like most revenge effects... excepting A Lannister Pays His Debts. And there is a major problem. The best revenge effect in the game belongs not to the House with revenge as a theme but to it's number one competitor.

Red Vengence is finally a revenge effect done right. It requires two standing influence, is cancelable, and allows the loser to come out on top. Yes I believe it is a very strong card... but Martell desperately needs it... not to mention that Martell, at least in IMO, has always been the best House at holding Lannister back. It is like the flip side of a Gold Dragon, echoing a lot of its themes but in a fun house mirror sort of way. The cards that Lanni plays to abuse the other Houses work less effectively against Martell. The cards that work best against Martell don't always work as effectively against the other Houses. This could help with more House diversity (or at least deck diversity) at tournaments.

~Maybe somebody will even decide to play a Stark deck.

dormouse said:

Red Vengence is finally a revenge effect done right. It requires two standing influence, is cancelable, and allows the loser to come out on top. Yes I believe it is a very strong card... but Martell desperately needs it... not to mention that Martell, at least in IMO, has always been the best House at holding Lannister back. It is like the flip side of a Gold Dragon, echoing a lot of its themes but in a fun house mirror sort of way. The cards that Lanni plays to abuse the other Houses work less effectively against Martell. The cards that work best against Martell don't always work as effectively against the other Houses. This could help with more House diversity (or at least deck diversity) at tournaments.

Ditto. I agree with that viewpoint very much so. Now if only those reasons weren't the same things that make me hate playing against Martell.

This is now listed as 'On the Boat" We might see it before Christmas. Hopefully.

It has been listed as "On the boat" for few weeks already. I am watching it closely every now and then.

It is listed now as "Shipping Now" so hopefully we will see it before Christmas.

Wow, I sure hope we see it before Christmas. I'm getting amazingly antsy. Probably due to actually having organized play going on here again.