What if it is a title to the TIE-FO that gives it a turret and crew slot?

This is not going to happen. No matter how many times you post saying it will/should be a TIE/fo title, it is not going to happen. It will be its own model, in its own expansion pack.

Well the only difference is between the hero and the core T-70 is a black and orange point job. I'm sure a Red Striped TIE-FO with Kylo Ren's shuttle could be easily done.

If anything could have been a title, it was the FO. There is more difference between a TIE SF and FO than there is between a FO and Ln.

I'm not so sure I would call this a crew slot default. Sure there are 2 people in there, but not neccessarily a guest star.

I could see a title that allowed a crew though.

What if it is a title to the TIE-FO that gives it a turret and crew slot?

This is not going to happen. No matter how many times you post saying it will/should be a TIE/fo title, it is not going to happen. It will be its own model, in its own expansion pack.

Well the only difference is between the hero and the core T-70 is a black and orange point job. I'm sure a Red Striped TIE-FO with Kylo Ren's shuttle could be easily done.

But the TIE/SF isn't just a a red-striped TIE/FO. The two ships are completely different. Larger solar panels, larger wing roots, the energy capacitors around the wing roots, a completely different ball cockpit that's larger to accommodate 2 crew, with a rear window for the gunner to see out of, larger front laser cannons, and the significantly larger Twin Ion Engines being rotated 90 degrees in a side-by-side configuration, along with the underslung turret beneath the ball cockpit.

It's not going to be a title.

"it could easily be done" isn't sufficient reason enough to actually do that. They made entirely new models for the T-70 and the Falcon to change the astromech and the comms dish. I somehow severely doubt that FFG is lazy enough to just not make a new model for a completely different ship.

I think it's kind of amusing that there is this tiny cadre of folks who really, really want it to be a title. A title means it has to be a turret since they're not going to include a bunch of replacement ship tokens that show the aux arc for the title. I'm OK with it being a turret, but there seem to be a bunch of folks who are concerned about the optics of the panels blocking lines of fire if they gave it a turret. So I think it'll be a rear arc and require new cardboard and that means it won't be a title.

Still, all you have to do is look at the huge amount of merchandising around the TIE SF to know it's going to be a separate ship. The TIE FO has one model kit available. The TIE SF has three. The TIE SF is available in two different sizes as toys with action figures. The FO is not. The SF is available as a Lego kit. The FO is not. There is no way the ship that Poe escaped in is represented in X-wing with a mere title.

Alt paint scheme and title. Like the iconic ship poe flies a bunch during the movie.

Horrible example that makes no sense, because Poe's X-Wing is functionally identical to every other T-70, whereas a TIE/SF is a completely different ship with different capabilities and an entirely different model.

What if it is a title to the TIE-FO that gives it a turret and crew slot?

This is not going to happen. No matter how many times you post saying it will/should be a TIE/fo title, it is not going to happen. It will be its own model, in its own expansion pack.

Well the only difference is between the hero and the core T-70 is a black and orange point job. I'm sure a Red Striped TIE-FO with Kylo Ren's shuttle could be easily done.

Do you honestly think that is what they are going to do? If so would you care to put a wager on that?

I'm not so sure I would call this a crew slot default. Sure there are 2 people in there, but not neccessarily a guest star.

I could see a title that allowed a crew though.

Here is my reasoning:

First for game reasons; it as a versatility to the craft, an ability to customize and alter the role the ship plays. Want to make it a stresser? Add tactician. More reliable damage? Gunner. Arc Dodger with rear firing and saboteur? Why not?

This makes sense to me in universe as well. It is a Special Forces vehicle. While they will mostly have a dedicated gunner, the second seat allows the above versatility. Need to drop of a spy? That can be done. Perhaps a First Order officer wants to command the battle from the front line, that could be accomplished as well.

Adding versatility to the ship gives it a pseudo support role as well.

Think to the TIE phantom, by all measure that is applied to arguing against the TIE/sf having a crew slot is directed to the phantom, they are similar.

- the phantom has a crew slot, why? To operate the guns? Cloaking device? If these things are default to its operation, compared to the TIE/sf "gunner", then that ship shouldn't have a crew slot, but it does. The reason, to let it accomplish more, to add a versatility, heck - to make it a bigger threat so the enemy target it, instead of the buzzing gnat fighters that the Standard TIE fighter is.

Special Forces in our world often deal with unconventional tactics, the crew slot is a way to try to show that in the game. These fighters likely have the best of the best the first order pilot ranks have, if you are going to give that second seat to someone, they probably have some serious skills.

I think it's kind of amusing that there is this tiny cadre of folks who really, really want it to be a title.

Like I've said on previous occasions, it's the TIE/fo that should have been the title. Because THAT'S the ship that was little more than a pallet swap of the TIE Fighter.

Edit: Oh, you said this yourself a couple posts later. Nevermind.

If anything could have been a title, it was the FO. There is more difference between a TIE SF and FO than there is between a FO and Ln.

What if it is a title to the TIE-FO that gives it a turret and crew slot?

This is not going to happen. No matter how many times you post saying it will/should be a TIE/fo title, it is not going to happen. It will be its own model, in its own expansion pack.

Well the only difference is between the hero and the core T-70 is a black and orange point job. I'm sure a Red Striped TIE-FO with Kylo Ren's shuttle could be easily done.

But the TIE/SF isn't just a a red-striped TIE/FO. The two ships are completely different. Larger solar panels, larger wing roots, the energy capacitors around the wing roots, a completely different ball cockpit that's larger to accommodate 2 crew, with a rear window for the gunner to see out of, larger front laser cannons, and the significantly larger Twin Ion Engines being rotated 90 degrees in a side-by-side configuration, along with the underslung turret beneath the ball cockpit.

It's not going to be a title.

"it could easily be done" isn't sufficient reason enough to actually do that. They made entirely new models for the T-70 and the Falcon to change the astromech and the comms dish. I somehow severely doubt that FFG is lazy enough to just not make a new model for a completely different ship.

I think it's kind of amusing that there is this tiny cadre of folks who really, really want it to be a title. A title means it has to be a turret since they're not going to include a bunch of replacement ship tokens that show the aux arc for the title. I'm OK with it being a turret, but there seem to be a bunch of folks who are concerned about the optics of the panels blocking lines of fire if they gave it a turret. So I think it'll be a rear arc and require new cardboard and that means it won't be a title.

Still, all you have to do is look at the huge amount of merchandising around the TIE SF to know it's going to be a separate ship. The TIE FO has one model kit available. The TIE SF has three. The TIE SF is available in two different sizes as toys with action figures. The FO is not. The SF is available as a Lego kit. The FO is not. There is no way the ship that Poe escaped in is represented in X-wing with a mere title.

Alt paint scheme and title. Like the iconic ship poe flies a bunch during the movie.

Horrible example that makes no sense, because Poe's X-Wing is functionally identical to every other T-70, whereas a TIE/SF is a completely different ship with different capabilities and an entirely different model.

Bear with me.. but note the 2 ships there in the pictures.. the only real difference is the larger engines on the SF and the window in the rear, as well as the addition of the caps on the wing pilons, different antennas ..... seriously.. look at them.. those are the only differences.. and the turret of course.. but I needed to point that out..

Also.. for the 'title' croud.. how will they introduce this title.. they need a ship in a box to do that, and they don't just release a card.. so.. new card, and ship will be needed.. why do these arguements happen when it's so obvious when common sense is what we need.. come on guys.. they are out to make money.. a new title to slip in the old FO box.. really.. not logical.. now stop this and find something new to rant about..

I see they are back at it over the XG-1 again.. go play with them.. **** ugly ship should never be made.. grumble grumble..

If anything could have been a title, it was the FO. There is more difference between a TIE SF and FO than there is between a FO and Ln.

Oh my god finally, somebody showed off how drastically different these two are. Thank you.

Well the only difference is between the hero and the core T-70 is a black and orange point job. I'm sure a Red Striped TIE-FO with Kylo Ren's shuttle could be easily done.

Um... no - it's actually a new sculpt. The difference? A BB-8 instead of an R2 unit

"instead of the R4 astromech that comes with the standard T-70 X-wing sculpt, Poe Dameron's signature vessel comes sculpted with his faithful astromech companion, BB-8."

Also take note of the fact that the new falcon is not the old sculpt with a different antenna - it's a new sculpt updating the falcon to reflect the minor differences in its appearance in TFA (not just a paint job)

if FFG willing to do re-sculpts in these cases, they're not going to do a repaint for the SF

What if it is a title to the TIE-FO that gives it a turret and crew slot?

This is not going to happen. No matter how many times you post saying it will/should be a TIE/fo title, it is not going to happen. It will be its own model, in its own expansion pack.

Well the only difference is between the hero and the core T-70 is a black and orange point job. I'm sure a Red Striped TIE-FO with Kylo Ren's shuttle could be easily done.

But the TIE/SF isn't just a a red-striped TIE/FO. The two ships are completely different. Larger solar panels, larger wing roots, the energy capacitors around the wing roots, a completely different ball cockpit that's larger to accommodate 2 crew, with a rear window for the gunner to see out of, larger front laser cannons, and the significantly larger Twin Ion Engines being rotated 90 degrees in a side-by-side configuration, along with the underslung turret beneath the ball cockpit.

It's not going to be a title.

"it could easily be done" isn't sufficient reason enough to actually do that. They made entirely new models for the T-70 and the Falcon to change the astromech and the comms dish. I somehow severely doubt that FFG is lazy enough to just not make a new model for a completely different ship.

I think it's kind of amusing that there is this tiny cadre of folks who really, really want it to be a title. A title means it has to be a turret since they're not going to include a bunch of replacement ship tokens that show the aux arc for the title. I'm OK with it being a turret, but there seem to be a bunch of folks who are concerned about the optics of the panels blocking lines of fire if they gave it a turret. So I think it'll be a rear arc and require new cardboard and that means it won't be a title.

Still, all you have to do is look at the huge amount of merchandising around the TIE SF to know it's going to be a separate ship. The TIE FO has one model kit available. The TIE SF has three. The TIE SF is available in two different sizes as toys with action figures. The FO is not. The SF is available as a Lego kit. The FO is not. There is no way the ship that Poe escaped in is represented in X-wing with a mere title.

Alt paint scheme and title. Like the iconic ship poe flies a bunch during the movie.

Horrible example that makes no sense, because Poe's X-Wing is functionally identical to every other T-70, whereas a TIE/SF is a completely different ship with different capabilities and an entirely different model.

how different are the sf and fo dial and stat line? /waits for thread necromancy in a year.

It needs a new model for the obvious physical differences. Beyond that? Your guess is as good as mine.

I still doubt it will get a full spectrum turret slot. More likely it will be able to fire its missiles into the rear auxiliary arc. Imagine being able to overrun a target and zap him with prockets.

I am beginning to think it will get a crew slot. Though if it does I wouldn't be surprised to see its point cost in the Defender range.

If anything could have been a title, it was the FO. There is more difference between a TIE SF and FO than there is between a FO and Ln.

Oh my god finally, somebody showed off how drastically different these two are. Thank you.

You would think it's just obvious....

Why wouldn't it be just like the VCX-100 where the special firing arc is only a sometimes arc?

And it can't be a turret because the wings prevent you from shooting out the sides.

Why wouldn't it be just like the VCX-100 where the special firing arc is only a sometimes arc?

And it can't be a turret because the wings prevent you from shooting out the sides.

That argument no longer holds water since the jumpmaster arrived that's got massive dead zones but can shoot out of arc.

Geneticdrift said "how different are the sf and fo dial and stat line? /waits for thread necromancy in a year."

The Dial should be almost the same (if not exactly the same), or one would think it would.

Poe does mention that it "can go" so maybe a green 5 or something. But then he might be saying that while never also ever piloting a Tie/FO, so they could very well be the same in that department.

As for the staline- well it should have the same stats as the FO, but maybe an extra shield- giving the SF 2 shields. Also maybe an extra attack die since the cross-section book says it hadupgraded cannons. But so did the TIE Advanced over the LN and it still only had 2AD.

I dont see why people want to give this a crew slot, the Ywing that has a turret idoesnt have a crew member and the Ywing is a 2 person fighter if it has a moveable (360) turret, as opposed to the ones we see in Episode IV which are the BTL-A3 Longprobes- which lock the turret in the forward position sicne its only the pilot controlling it.

I see this thing with a rear arc that fires a cannon and missiles in front or rear....with NO crew.

If we go by canon, the ONLY y-wing that was two person was from the Clone Wars show, with the bubble turret.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/196560-spoilers-special-forces-tiesf-is-surely-coming-to-x-wing-but-how/page-17#entry2207766

Here is my post about why I think a crew slot is a good idea.

If we go by canon, the ONLY y-wing that was two person was from the Clone Wars show, with the bubble turret.

But obviously we arent going by just canon, since then over half the ships wouldnt have upgrades or even be in the game. So FFG has used the EU for ideas and stats, and characters/pilots....

Why wouldn't it be just like the VCX-100 where the special firing arc is only a sometimes arc?

And it can't be a turret because the wings prevent you from shooting out the sides.

You know I am really tired of this silly argument. The Turret on the special forces TIE is in a better location than most any other turreted ship in the game. It has amazing field of view both fore and aft, where +90% of shots would be going, and it can shoot above or below the plane of the TIE. The Y-wing is defenseless from below, the K-wing has huge wings blocking the rear fire arc, the Jumpmaster can't shoot below or to its right, etc, but nobody is complaining about their turrets. If a special forces TIE needed to shoot left or right on or above its plane it could just roll and bring its guns to bear. It's not like its a clunky freighter. All turrets have limitations on their firing arc. The TIE/sf trades the left and right for far superior front and rear. I'd take that 10 out of 10 times versus a Y-Wing or a Jumpmaster or a Ghost.

the Ywing that has a turret idoesnt have a crew member and the Ywing is a 2 person fighter if it has a moveable (360) turret, as opposed to the ones we see in Episode IV which are the BTL-A3 Longprobes- which lock the turret in the forward position sicne its only the pilot controlling it.

If we go by canon, the ONLY y-wing that was two person was from the Clone Wars show, with the bubble turret.

Given that, at the time the Y-wing was statted out - the Legends announcement had not yet been made - and given that it looks like the movie one - I think it's safe to say that the game version is the BTL-S3:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BTL-S3_Y-wing_starfighter

and that taking BTL-A4 title from Most Wanted, changes it to this:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BTL-A4_Y-wing_starfighter

The Longprobe is changed further for the long-ranged recon role - giving it fins on the nacelles:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BTL-A4_LP_%22Longprobe%22

The bubble-turret version has its own name - BTL-B (being a lot longer than the other models):

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BTL-B_Y-wing_starfighter

Said the wrong Ywing designations, my mistake.The Longproe is slightly different too, I forgot about that bit...it also has a bigger sensor package. I'd one day love to see that in the game....maybe along the lines of the Ywing keeping its turret - but locked forwards but havign to choose which to fire (turret or primary each turn), but also getting a Systems Slot.

But my point still stands on the TIE/SF not having a crew if it has a turret or aux arc.

Why wouldn't it be just like the VCX-100 where the special firing arc is only a sometimes arc?

And it can't be a turret because the wings prevent you from shooting out the sides.

You know I am really tired of this silly argument. The Turret on the special forces TIE is in a better location than most any other turreted ship in the game. It has amazing field of view both fore and aft, where +90% of shots would be going, and it can shoot above or below the plane of the TIE. The Y-wing is defenseless from below, the K-wing has huge wings blocking the rear fire arc, the Jumpmaster can't shoot below or to its right, etc, but nobody is complaining about their turrets. If a special forces TIE needed to shoot left or right on or above its plane it could just roll and bring its guns to bear. It's not like its a clunky freighter. All turrets have limitations on their firing arc. The TIE/sf trades the left and right for far superior front and rear. I'd take that 10 out of 10 times versus a Y-Wing or a Jumpmaster or a Ghost.

How about the ship gets an auxiliary and the title has this ability:

TIE/sf

you may equip a turret upgrade. When you perform an attack outside of your arc roll two attack dice and suffer 1 critical damage for each hit or critical rolled.

This is one of the ways to do it:

This is one of the ways to do it:

Other than Attack Dice 3 this is EXACTLY how I would do this ship. Oh and maybe remove the System Slot, but then maybe not.

I double checked the Cross section book, and the cannons on the FO and SF are the same: Sienar-Jaemus Fleet ystems L-s9.6 laser cannons. I thought the SF was upgraded to another type.