The Empire doesn't need a turret somewhere. The game could do with less turrets, not more.

The Empire doesn't need a turret somewhere. The game could do with less turrets, not more.

So it's fine rebels have 7, scum has 3 and we only get 1 on a big ship?

Turrets are here there's not getting rid of them so every faction should have access to them or it creates severe imbalance.

The Empire doesn't need a turret somewhere. The game could do with less turrets, not more.

So it's fine rebels have 7, scum has 3 and we only get 1 on a big ship?

Turrets are here there's not getting rid of them so every faction should have access to them or it creates severe imbalance.

I agree completely.

That The Empire completely lacks then is just absolutely unfair in every single way.

FO Tie with BNG!!! motocross term for nothing really changes but has Bold New Graphics!!

So.. For those of the view that the TIE/sf should not have a crew slot, i ask this: how do you view the crew slot on the TIE/Phantom? It has a pilot and co-pilot/gunner. By much of the logic stated, the TIE phantom should not have a crew slot - as the gunner just fires the weapons - no need to represent it with a crew slot.

Answered your own question. The 2nd crewman in the Phantom is not JUST a gunner.

It's also an odd situation, because the Phantom is one of the only starfighters where the pilot doesn't operate the primary weapons. Because of this, you could almost justify the crewman being the pilot, rather than the gunner.

Either way, the situation of there being a pilot that fires the main guns, and another crewman operating a turret is most closely duplicated in this game by the Y-Wing, and the Y-Wings gunner does not provide a crew slot.

I'd say it would atleast be an expensive upgrade to the /fo. Much like the Super Hornet, the F series of FA-18 isn't much different from earlier production models.

Making it a new craft altogether is a waste of resources, it's still another re-designed Line Fighter.

So.. For those of the view that the TIE/sf should not have a crew slot, i ask this: how do you view the crew slot on the TIE/Phantom? It has a pilot and co-pilot/gunner. By much of the logic stated, the TIE phantom should not have a crew slot - as the gunner just fires the weapons - no need to represent it with a crew slot.

Answered your own question. The 2nd crewman in the Phantom is not JUST a gunner.

It's also an odd situation, because the Phantom is one of the only starfighters where the pilot doesn't operate the primary weapons. Because of this, you could almost justify the crewman being the pilot, rather than the gunner.

Either way, the situation of there being a pilot that fires the main guns, and another crewman operating a turret is most closely duplicated in this game by the Y-Wing, and the Y-Wings gunner does not provide a crew slot.

The point I make is that if the crew of a fighter are integral to the operation of a ship, as many put forth that the TIE/sf gunner is, then why is there a crew slot on the phantom, if the second person is necessary to the operation of the craft? The way I see it, the crew slot is a game mechanic to make the craft more versatile - I put forth that the same can be done for the TIE/sf. I mean if Mara Jade can sit shotgun on a phantom, why can't she do the same with a TIE/ sf? How is it different? It is a special forces fighter, why not have the capability to have the "gunner" be someone of importance or a specialist, in the same way that a Phantom might? Thos would make the TIE/Sf have a different role from the TIE/fo, rather than just having a turret or auxillary arc.

So, then we are then going to base what the TIE/sf gunner does, based on what Finn is capable of, or at the very least, what he does on screen?

Perhaps the "gunner" manages other aspects of the TIE/sf operation, that Poe, didn't want to overburden his new stormtrooper ally with, since Finn seemed to think it was complicated.

Well, if I have to choose between A. basing something on what is seen on screen that may have been an edge case that's not representative of standard operation, or B. a complete hypothetical assumption made by a random message board user, I'm still going to go with A.

The Empire doesn't need a turret somewhere. The game could do with less turrets, not more.

So it's fine rebels have 7, scum has 3 and we only get 1 on a big ship?

Turrets are here there's not getting rid of them so every faction should have access to them or it creates severe imbalance.

I agree completely.

That The Empire completely lacks then is just absolutely unfair in every single way.

So.. For those of the view that the TIE/sf should not have a crew slot, i ask this: how do you view the crew slot on the TIE/Phantom? It has a pilot and co-pilot/gunner. By much of the logic stated, the TIE phantom should not have a crew slot - as the gunner just fires the weapons - no need to represent it with a crew slot.

Answered your own question. The 2nd crewman in the Phantom is not JUST a gunner.

It's also an odd situation, because the Phantom is one of the only starfighters where the pilot doesn't operate the primary weapons. Because of this, you could almost justify the crewman being the pilot, rather than the gunner.

Either way, the situation of there being a pilot that fires the main guns, and another crewman operating a turret is most closely duplicated in this game by the Y-Wing, and the Y-Wings gunner does not provide a crew slot.

The point I make is that if the crew of a fighter are integral to the operation of a ship, as many put forth that the TIE/sf gunner is, then why is there a crew slot on the phantom, if the second person is necessary to the operation of the craft? The way I see it, the crew slot is a game mechanic to make the craft more versatile - I put forth that the same can be done for the TIE/sf. I mean if Mara Jade can sit shotgun on a phantom, why can't she do the same with a TIE/ sf? How is it different? It is a special forces fighter, why not have the capability to have the "gunner" be someone of importance or a specialist, in the same way that a Phantom might? Thos would make the TIE/Sf have a different role from the TIE/fo, rather than just having a turret or auxillary arc.

So, then we are then going to base what the TIE/sf gunner does, based on what Finn is capable of, or at the very least, what he does on screen?

Perhaps the "gunner" manages other aspects of the TIE/sf operation, that Poe, didn't want to overburden his new stormtrooper ally with, since Finn seemed to think it was complicated.

Well, if I have to choose between A. basing something on what is seen on screen that may have been an edge case that's not representative of standard operation, or B. a complete hypothetical assumption made by a random message board user, I'm still going to go with A.

Lucky some other, coming of slightly condescending, random message board user also has no say then.

The second pilot on the Phantom is a co-pilot for initiating and controlling the Stealth and support systems. It's a heavy and large craft, so a co-pilot makes the pilot's life more manageable while in combat. Whereas the second pilot on the /sf is just a gunner, who controls the undermount turret. That gunner's job is just to operate that system, no countermeasures, no shield or support management.

I don't see a reason for the /sf to need additional capabilities, it's a limited run upgrade to the /fo for the FO's top pilots. Think of the ship itself before you try to worm in support features that throws the price value of craft up into unneeded.

Just finished reading through all of this, and the proposals appear to have descended down the rabbit hole of MOAR!

Surely it could just have a turret upgrade (dual heavy lasers in the book so routinely shown could be "twin laser turrets" by any other option), and a tech upgrade "countermeasures" that allows it to sacrifice any attack this turn for the ability to fire the turret at any incoming ordnance attacks, with any hit cancelling the ordnance attack? The crewmember/gunner is then automatically assumed to be present.

Not sure on the missile slot, but hey why not? You don't see a lot of X-wings loading up the movie-iconic proton torpedoes. Or maybe the missile slot is filled with the countermeasures option?

I've got money that it gets a full turret and not a rear arc. Probably not a PWT, but it wouldn't surprise me. It will be a nice change of pace to slap the rebel terrorists around with a TLT and hear them complain about how OP they are.

The Empire doesn't need a turret somewhere. The game could do with less turrets, not more.

So it's fine rebels have 7, scum has 3 and we only get 1 on a big ship?

Turrets are here there's not getting rid of them so every faction should have access to them or it creates severe imbalance.

Seriously, what's wrong with having different tactics and equipment for different factions? Just because side A has something doesn't mean side B has to have it or the game sucks.

The Empire doesn't need a turret somewhere. The game could do with less turrets, not more.

So it's fine rebels have 7, scum has 3 and we only get 1 on a big ship?

Turrets are here there's not getting rid of them so every faction should have access to them or it creates severe imbalance.

It's just goofy to make everyone "even" in every aspect. Put 3 green dice on all Rebels and shield on all Imperials. Make sure everything is 100% equal. Sounds like a fun game.

Seriously, what's wrong with having different tactics and equipment for different factions? Just because side A has something doesn't mean side B has to have it or the game sucks.

The problem is when side A (rebels) have a lot more tools available to them than side B (Empire). The rebels have all of the astromechs, all of the turrets, and more than twice as many (18) unique crew that the Empire can not use. We have 8 7 Imperial Only crew and one EPT that they can't use, it's hardly a fair comparison.

The second pilot on the Phantom is a co-pilot for initiating and controlling the Stealth and support systems. It's a heavy and large craft, so a co-pilot makes the pilot's life more manageable while in combat. Whereas the second pilot on the /sf is just a gunner, who controls the undermount turret. That gunner's job is just to operate that system, no countermeasures, no shield or support management.

I don't see a reason for the /sf to need additional capabilities, it's a limited run upgrade to the /fo for the FO's top pilots. Think of the ship itself before you try to worm in support features that throws the price value of craft up into unneeded.

But that just emphasizes my point: if the phantom REQUIRED two people just for standard operation, it shouldn't have a crew slot. Instead, in the game, we have a crew slot. The phantom is pretty much a special forces ship, specializing in hit and run tactics. The inclusion of a tactician makes it a more formidable craft as well. I propose that like the crew slot on the phantom, a tactician (or other crew option) gives the TIE/sf a more versatile role, either more of a heavy attack or support, depending on what crew upgrade is in the in the crew slot.

Idea: Give the Special Forces TIE a crew slot, a tech slot, and a missile slot, but no turret slot. Instead, include this crew card.

Special Forces Co-Pilot

Crew, Special Forces TIE only

Your upgrade bar gains a turret icon and can attack with missiles outside its firing arc.

It's fluffy because the crew is required to man the turret. Also lets you play the Special Forces TIE either as a beefier TIE with a crew slot or as a turret ship.

Just finished reading through all of this, and the proposals appear to have descended down the rabbit hole of MOAR!

Indeed.

"It should have a Tech Slot! And a Missile Slot! And a Turret Slot! And a Crew Slot! And a System Slot! And a Cannon Slot! Also probably a PWT! And, like, 6 shields!!"

Well when it does finally arrive it will come screaming into the atmosphere a half destroyed wreck, with a couple handsome devils in it, eh? Eh?

I'll be here all week.

TFA related YouTube Video that I thought was funny. May contain spoilers if you somehow managed to hide in a bomb shelter for some unknown reason.

The Empire doesn't need a turret somewhere. The game could do with less turrets, not more.

So it's fine rebels have 7, scum has 3 and we only get 1 on a big ship?

Turrets are here there's not getting rid of them so every faction should have access to them or it creates severe imbalance.

It's just goofy to make everyone "even" in every aspect. Put 3 green dice on all Rebels and shield on all Imperials. Make sure everything is 100% equal. Sounds like a fun game.

Seriously, what's wrong with having different tactics and equipment for different factions? Just because side A has something doesn't mean side B has to have it or the game sucks.

So rebels getting bombs was fine, scum getting stealth is fine, but empire getting one turret an a small ship is the step too far.

Empire keeps getting its tricks shared with other factions but we never get any of theirs in return.

One small based turret ship wouldn't suddenly ruin the game it'd just share the love.

If the TIE SF plays differently from the turret ships the other factions have, I don't see a problem with it. Imperials already have a major upgrade restriction with no Astromechs or Salvaged Astromechs, so giving them option to the turret slot for one ship isn't gonna make them play exactly like Rebels or Scum.

The Empire doesn't need a turret somewhere. The game could do with less turrets, not more.

So it's fine rebels have 7, scum has 3 and we only get 1 on a big ship?

Turrets are here there's not getting rid of them so every faction should have access to them or it creates severe imbalance.

It's just goofy to make everyone "even" in every aspect. Put 3 green dice on all Rebels and shield on all Imperials. Make sure everything is 100% equal. Sounds like a fun game.

Seriously, what's wrong with having different tactics and equipment for different factions? Just because side A has something doesn't mean side B has to have it or the game sucks.

So rebels getting bombs was fine, scum getting stealth is fine, but empire getting one turret an a small ship is the step too far.

Empire keeps getting its tricks shared with other factions but we never get any of theirs in return.

One small based turret ship wouldn't suddenly ruin the game it'd just share the love.

Why do you want to make the Empire more lame by adding another turret?

The second pilot on the Phantom is a co-pilot for initiating and controlling the Stealth and support systems. It's a heavy and large craft, so a co-pilot makes the pilot's life more manageable while in combat. Whereas the second pilot on the /sf is just a gunner, who controls the undermount turret. That gunner's job is just to operate that system, no countermeasures, no shield or support management.

I don't see a reason for the /sf to need additional capabilities, it's a limited run upgrade to the /fo for the FO's top pilots. Think of the ship itself before you try to worm in support features that throws the price value of craft up into unneeded.

But that just emphasizes my point: if the phantom REQUIRED two people just for standard operation, it shouldn't have a crew slot. Instead, in the game, we have a crew slot. The phantom is pretty much a special forces ship, specializing in hit and run tactics. The inclusion of a tactician makes it a more formidable craft as well. I propose that like the crew slot on the phantom, a tactician (or other crew option) gives the TIE/sf a more versatile role, either more of a heavy attack or support, depending on what crew upgrade is in the in the crew slot.

I disagree for the sake of not making a crap re-design more important then what it is. If they want to make a better ship, make one. Don't make a turret gunner have the same weight as a tech officer.

The Phantom is not a special forces ship, it's reserved for Aces and higher qualifying pilots because the facility peoducing them got destroyed. If you called a Raptor pilot SFs compared to Hog or Eagle pilots, you'd get laughed at.

The Empire doesn't need a turret somewhere. The game could do with less turrets, not more.

So it's fine rebels have 7, scum has 3 and we only get 1 on a big ship?

Turrets are here there's not getting rid of them so every faction should have access to them or it creates severe imbalance.

Yes, make every faction exactly identical. What a boring game that would be.

It will get 2 attack dice, we all know it.

It will get 2 attack dice, we all know it.

Please no we have more than enough already the movie showed us the cog is much stronger than the regular fo so should be three attack.