So.. For those of the view that the TIE/sf should not have a crew slot, i ask this: how do you view the crew slot on the TIE/Phantom? It has a pilot and co-pilot/gunner. By much of the logic stated, the TIE phantom should not have a crew slot - as the gunner just fires the weapons - no need to represent it with a crew slot.

I feel that the TIE/sf, while i suspect will lack cloaking, has more in commin design wise with the TIE phantom, than either the defender or advanced.

I agree with the values for the fighter of 3 attack, agility and hull, with the two shield.

I still feel that a crew slot, in place of the cannon, suits the craft better. The special forces gunner i detailed above is an option and alters how to fly the ship.

Trying to cram everything into the ship is ridiculous. But options that alter how the ship can be played gives variety and that is not a bad thing. If the default is a fast and mobile three attack TIE, that is not bad. If equipping the right crew and tech upgrafes changes the ship from the default improved TIE to a role of battlefield harrassment or blocking savant, I think that is great. The ship should be versatile.

The TIE defender should be the heavy weapon (cannon) platform.

The TIE/sf should be the ship that provides the First Order/empire with non swarm synnergy or an elite ace.

The lack of crew is the same logic that doesn't give the turreted Y-Wing crew. If all he's really meant to do is fire the gun he doesn't need to be represented by a separate slot. I'm also in the camp that doesn't see a cannon slot on the SF. And the idea that it should have a turreted cannon is beyond goofy.

But I also don't see giving it a full 360º primary turret. That's for ships with a shite dial and/or few to no green dice. The forward and auxiliary arcs are just fine. Heck, give it the built in equivalent of the BTL title. So a pair of 2 dice shots forward, maybe combinable into a single 3, and a single 2 shot aft. Though not in the same phase.

The Force Awakens Incredible Cross Sections

Where are the missiles?

In the heavy weapon turret. It holds 'specialized ordnance' according to ICS. The magazines probably only hold a couple of warheads at most

"Heavy" weapon turret. It is so tiny! Oh, well, OK then:

Maybe the /SF second crew is always a gunner, like the 'crew' for non titled Y-wings is always a turret gunner.

Still don't know if the /SF should be a seperate model. A title for the /FO just doesn't seem adequate to portray the rear arc though. Defiantly no cannon, unless mag pulse is a cannon instead of a warhead.

If this ship did have a crew then the primary att should only be two, with a crew upgrade that ups the att to 3 out the front arc and also allows rear arc ordnance attacks but just 2 att primary in that arc. If a Gunner upgrade is instead used you can still fire out the front or back, just at 2 att, unless in R1 of course.

I really don't get why folks insist on giving the SF a cannon. Seriously. In the exploded art work it list the guns in the turret as lasers.

Is it all based on one passing comment in the movie? If we go by that sort of thing neither Vader nor Luke are properly represented. And Poe is woefully underpowered. That looping pass where he bags multiple TIE/FO in a single go? Replicate that in the game.

Let's try and figure this out in a game sense. Movie dialogue passing comments are a path best not followed.

If we go by that sort of thing neither Vader nor Luke are properly represented. And Poe is woefully underpowered.

Dah.

I really don't get why folks insist on giving the SF a cannon. Seriously. In the exploded art work it list the guns in the turret as lasers.

Is it all based on one passing comment in the movie? If we go by that sort of thing neither Vader nor Luke are properly represented. And Poe is woefully underpowered. That looping pass where he bags multiple TIE/FO in a single go? Replicate that in the game.

Let's try and figure this out in a game sense. Movie dialogue passing comments are a path best not followed.

Poe Dameron only

When you hit a PS 1 target it is Destoryed. Each time you destroy a PS 1 target perform a boost or BR (these don't count as actions and have no limit) and attack again if able.

Your PS is 13.

50 pts.

The reason I insist on cannon is that it makes sense for Heavy Laser cannon on it. Also it makes sense since if an imperial player were to get it, they'd have to then buy a bunch of turret ships to get different turrets, if it was a Turret instead of the normal cannon on imperial ships.

Also I'm not so sure how 360 that the guns on it would really be due to the wings, and yes it has been suggested you can pitch/yaw/roll a little to the sides to accomodate firing on the sides, but that is a bit much in my opinion, when the turret on the Ywing is much more capaple of 360 arc without many issues of its own hull getting in the way.

I also like the idea of a cannon in front and rear auxillary arc, like Fett/the Firespray should have..but didnt get.

Oh, and it does warrant another model, the hull of the fighter is different, look at the engines, they are on the sides of the cockpit, plu the ocg batteries on the wings. it warrants another model more than the FO did, which barely changed the engine on the back of the TIE/LN.

The gunner on the Phantom, really isnt much of a gunner, she likely is the cloak and shield operator, watch the game with the Phantom in it. I'm pretty sure Ru Murleen is doing non-gunner stuff, much lke a RIO in current fighters....hence crew slot.

The TIE/SF fighter''s gunner is exactly that, a gun operator. Andso makes sense with the Ywing idea of no crew but you can have a turret....ndthen the single seat BTL-A3 Longprobe Ywing's fix the turret forward since there is no backseat/turret operator.

Phantom has crew and system slots 4 attack and cloak because, that's why. Don't question the phantom.

And Poe is woefully underpowered. That looping pass where he bags multiple TIE/FO in a single go? Replicate that in the game.

Let's try and figure this out in a game sense. Movie dialogue passing comments are a path best not followed.

movie dialogue isnt all we are taking thisfrom, the cross section book that both I and at least one other person on the forum have, are using that info too. And if you say well that isnt the movie so we cant use that info, then you will lose almost over half the ships from this game since we dont see them in anything but the E and take much of what they can do from other book sources that give technical schematics.

You really want to represent a fighter that can kill 2-3 ties in a sngle turn, okay, sure, lets do tha...he better be 100 points though. Are you freaking mad??? That is insane, Corran can pretty much do that if given the chance to double tap on different targets if he has them both in arc.

And Poe in the 2 builds that people commonly play, will kill multiple ships during the course of the game, last night I sht down Vader with him, in another game I took out both Fel, and Tetran Cowell single handedly with just Poe.While the rest dealt with Turr.

So no, Poe doesnt need to be able to kill multiple FO's in a single turn...(where would the balance be???? Poor swarms of ties just dying in 2 turns, since he could wipe out 2-3 a turn, so against an 8ship swarm it would be about 4 turn game!) though seeing what Corran's ability could do on a T-70 could be cool for a friendly game...not much would change.

And Poe is woefully underpowered. That looping pass where he bags multiple TIE/FO in a single go? Replicate that in the game.

Let's try and figure this out in a game sense. Movie dialogue passing comments are a path best not followed.

movie dialogue isnt all we are taking thisfrom, the cross section book that both I and at least one other person on the forum have, are using that info too. And if you say well that isnt the movie so we cant use that info, then you will lose almost over half the ships from this game since we dont see them in anything but the E and take much of what they can do from other book sources that give technical schematics.

You really want to represent a fighter that can kill 2-3 ties in a sngle turn, okay, sure, lets do tha...he better be 100 points though. Are you freaking mad??? That is insane, Corran can pretty much do that if given the chance to double tap on different targets if he has them both in arc.

And Poe in the 2 builds that people commonly play, will kill multiple ships during the course of the game, last night I sht down Vader with him, in another game I took out both Fel, and Tetran Cowell single handedly with just Poe.While the rest dealt with Turr.

So no, Poe doesnt need to be able to kill multiple FO's in a single turn...(where would the balance be???? Poor swarms of ties just dying in 2 turns, since he could wipe out 2-3 a turn, so against an 8ship swarm it would be about 4 turn game!) though seeing what Corran's ability could do on a T-70 could be cool for a friendly game...not much would change.

Best Pilot in the Resistence(EPT)

Poe Dameron only

When you hit a PS 1 target it is Destoryed. Each time you destroy a PS 1 target perform a boost or BR (these don't count as actions and have no limit) and attack again if able.

Your PS is 13.

50 pts

And Poe is woefully underpowered. That looping pass where he bags multiple TIE/FO in a single go? Replicate that in the game.

Let's try and figure this out in a game sense. Movie dialogue passing comments are a path best not followed.

movie dialogue isnt all we are taking thisfrom, the cross section book that both I and at least one other person on the forum have, are using that info too. And if you say well that isnt the movie so we cant use that info, then you will lose almost over half the ships from this game since we dont see them in anything but the E and take much of what they can do from other book sources that give technical schematics.

You really want to represent a fighter that can kill 2-3 ties in a sngle turn, okay, sure, lets do tha...he better be 100 points though. Are you freaking mad??? That is insane, Corran can pretty much do that if given the chance to double tap on different targets if he has them both in arc.

And Poe in the 2 builds that people commonly play, will kill multiple ships during the course of the game, last night I sht down Vader with him, in another game I took out both Fel, and Tetran Cowell single handedly with just Poe.While the rest dealt with Turr.

So no, Poe doesnt need to be able to kill multiple FO's in a single turn...(where would the balance be???? Poor swarms of ties just dying in 2 turns, since he could wipe out 2-3 a turn, so against an 8ship swarm it would be about 4 turn game!) though seeing what Corran's ability could do on a T-70 could be cool for a friendly game...not much would change.

Please go back and re-read my entire post. I'm simply saying that just because it happens or mentioned in the movies doesn't mean it needs to be representable in the game. Most of the things that happen in the movie would make for a horrible game.

Okay okay okay everybody stop with the Y-Wing crap.

That is a BTL--A4 Longprobe Ywing, the one that has a locked forward turret. Not one with a gunner, that allows 360 fire.

Oh and for the record the Longprobe Ywing coud lock its turret in another direction too, ut usually the pilot didnt since it became more difficult to fire, at least if he put it forward he could fire it and the laers at the same target. Just like in the game!

.

The gunner on the Phantom, really isnt much of a gunner, she likely is the cloak and shield operator, watch the game with the Phantom in it. I'm pretty sure Ru Murleen is doing non-gunner stuff, much lke a RIO in current fighters....hence crew slot.

The TIE/SF fighter''s gunner is exactly that, a gun operator. Andso makes sense with the Ywing idea of no crew but you can have a turret....ndthen the single seat BTL-A3 Longprobe Ywing's fix the turret forward since there is no backseat/turret operator.

So, then we are then going to base what the TIE/sf gunner does, based on what Finn is capable of, or at the very least, what he does on screen?

Perhaps the "gunner" manages other aspects of the TIE/sf operation, that Poe, didn't want to overburden his new stormtrooper ally with, since Finn seemed to think it was complicated.

The Force Awakens shows that a turret can be fired from and by the forward facing pilot, and previous movies have shown that an astromech can fly the ship. Considering this, along with the ponderous nature of y-wings, a single pilot could operate the turret while the astromech flies/maintains the course. The btl-a4 has the weapons linked so the pilot pulls the trigger and all the energy weapons fire. Really, the different models were created because early legends writers couldnt explain everything and made assumptions. Also, if we go by the lore, the btl-a4 should have less shields than the other versions of the ship. We should also get a version of y-wing with a crew slot as Luke flies around with C-3P0 in a y-wing in the canon novel, Weapon of the Jedi.

That is a BTL--A4 Longprobe Ywing, the one that has a locked forward turret. Not one with a gunner, that allows 360 fire.

Oh and for the record the Longprobe Ywing coud lock its turret in another direction too, ut usually the pilot didnt since it became more difficult to fire, at least if he put it forward he could fire it and the laers at the same target. Just like in the game!

You mean, the only canon Y-Wing.

That is a BTL--A4 Longprobe Ywing, the one that has a locked forward turret. Not one with a gunner, that allows 360 fire.

Oh and for the record the Longprobe Ywing coud lock its turret in another direction too, ut usually the pilot didnt since it became more difficult to fire, at least if he put it forward he could fire it and the laers at the same target. Just like in the game!

You mean, the only canon Y-Wing.

BTL-B from clone wars?

That is a BTL--A4 Longprobe Ywing, the one that has a locked forward turret. Not one with a gunner, that allows 360 fire.

Oh and for the record the Longprobe Ywing coud lock its turret in another direction too, ut usually the pilot didnt since it became more difficult to fire, at least if he put it forward he could fire it and the laers at the same target. Just like in the game!

You mean, the only canon Y-Wing.

BTL-B from clone wars?

Only to an extent.

The Y-Wings were stripped down variants- this has basically been confirmed, but it was so different that we could call it another model entirely. The Rebellion's stock modification of the Y-Wing (and it is a stock one, a standard one, more accurately, that they do to each and every one) takes into account their limited manpower and ensures only a single man can use each system.

As such, the Y-Wing's gunner has no second passenger. It only did in the holiday special.

That is not true. In the canon novel, Weapon of the Jedi, Luke flies to Devaron in a y-wing with both Artoo and Threepio.

That is a BTL--A4 Longprobe Ywing, the one that has a locked forward turret. Not one with a gunner, that allows 360 fire.

Oh and for the record the Longprobe Ywing coud lock its turret in another direction too, ut usually the pilot didnt since it became more difficult to fire, at least if he put it forward he could fire it and the laers at the same target. Just like in the game!

You mean, the only canon Y-Wing.

BTL-B from clone wars?

Only to an extent.

The Y-Wings were stripped down variants- this has basically been confirmed, but it was so different that we could call it another model entirely. The Rebellion's stock modification of the Y-Wing (and it is a stock one, a standard one, more accurately, that they do to each and every one) takes into account their limited manpower and ensures only a single man can use each system.

As such, the Y-Wing's gunner has no second passenger. It only did in the holiday special.

Look, there's two canon Y-wings, the BTL-B from the clone wars with the turret gunner and the Yavin hot rod special without the second seat. Now I don't care if the Longprobe, S3 or A4 are ever canon, but we do have two different Ys in the canon, one two seater the other single seat. That's good enough for me.

That is a BTL--A4 Longprobe Ywing, the one that has a locked forward turret. Not one with a gunner, that allows 360 fire.

Oh and for the record the Longprobe Ywing coud lock its turret in another direction too, ut usually the pilot didnt since it became more difficult to fire, at least if he put it forward he could fire it and the laers at the same target. Just like in the game!

You mean, the only canon Y-Wing.

BTL-B from clone wars?

Only to an extent.

The Y-Wings were stripped down variants- this has basically been confirmed, but it was so different that we could call it another model entirely. The Rebellion's stock modification of the Y-Wing (and it is a stock one, a standard one, more accurately, that they do to each and every one) takes into account their limited manpower and ensures only a single man can use each system.

As such, the Y-Wing's gunner has no second passenger. It only did in the holiday special.

Look, there's two canon Y-wings, the BTL-B from the clone wars with the turret gunner and the Yavin hot rod special without the second seat. Now I don't care if the Longprobe, S3 or A4 are ever canon, but we do have two different Ys in the canon, one two seater the other single seat. That's good enough for me.

Yeah, and at no point did I disagree with you..! I'm just consistently irritated at people who use the Y-Wing's "Gunner" as an excuse for the TIE/SF not to have crew as some sort of abstraction.

And **** right I want an FO, FN-2187 card..!

That is not true. In the canon novel, Weapon of the Jedi, Luke flies to Devaron in a y-wing with both Artoo and Threepio.

Funny enough, that feels eerily similar to the Holiday Special's way of handling the Y-Wing.

I can't fault that writer for not knowing his ships. But his mistake is canon now. So somewhere, somehow, there is indeed a Y-Wing with a passenger seat.

If I recall, it was just called a y-wing, so, conceivably Threepio could have been sitting in the gunner bubble if it was one if the clone wars era models.

@caplack: oh. Ok. Yeah I want the /SF to have crew too, like the Phantom. The heavy weapon turret isn't like a regular turret anyway. Not like the y-wing. I would also like a Resistence title for it. Yeah like that's gonna happen.

Wowee!

A Tie Fighter with life support, that must mean hyperdrives, and shields, and crew, and all those things Poe said it had, and it's probably got 3 greens, and a tech slot (cuz oh man we get that now on all our stuff, whoohoo!), and that means a new ship, and maybe some new crew and all that stuff Poe said, and...

...

bit amused at how many feel there won't or shouldn't be a new model for the /sf. That entire thought process is inane. Not only is it very different but it's a quite recognizable design from a prominent scene in the movie. We will pay for it. (60 units).

Mounting peg will be right where it is on the other TIE models, bottom of the cockpit, even if they have to bisect the turret and just have a bit of barrel sticking out in front and behind the peg; like the Hot Wheels die cast /sf.

Aux arc vs. turret slot is something my wife and I have been dickering over ever since we went to the theater. (She plays Rebels, I play Imps, we buy Scum just because). She says it needs an auxilary arc to it doesn't perforate it's own solar panels. I say screw plausibility, the Empire needs a turret slot somewhere.