No more attack two ties seriously we have more than enough, it's clearly got the guns to justify three attack forward.

If the turret and the chin guns can fire together, yes.

I think you'd need either a Title card or a new rules card in order to describe a ship with an aux. firing arc where the front and back arcs had different attack values in that case though.

I still think a Special Forces Tail Gunner crew card work wonders here:

Special Forces Tail Gunner

TIE/sf only

Points ?

You may fire missiles outside you arc; also you may reduce your primary attack by one and target ships in base contact with you, even if they are outside your firing arc.

Or fire missiles outside arc, or fire primary weapon at 1 fewer die outside of arc ( as per normal, though i like tge potential blocking with the above)

This accomplishhes everything that a TIE/sf needs to do. I feel the crew slot is very useful on a special forces TIE as it makes it more utilitarian and adaptable - something the special forces should probably be. You csn choose to have the awesome gunner, or, tactitian. Mara jade, etc.

If the TIE/sf has

3 attack

3 agility

3 hull

2 shield

Missile, crew, tech and system slots

Evade, target lock, focus, barrel roll and (maybe) boost actions

Segnors loops and talon rolls with at least one koiogran turn, a green 5

It would be a pricey ship, but fun.

That's not bad, except for the base contact thing. I hate that that's how anti-pursuit lasers work. I don't really want to see another turret get reduced to that as well.

Keep in mind, the base contact would also allow for range bonus; so three red.

The way i see the TIE/sf is a ship that ruins your day - hard to anticipate its move. If you overshoot it or it does sonething unexpected, you get in its front arc. With the gunner, if you touch it gets a great shot off on you. If you play it safe and you don't touch bases, it may still have missiles that can shoot.

TIE/sf with Special Forces Tail Gunner and intimidation? Yes please.

Add in that i gave a system slot: advanced sensors or enhanced scopes make great additions to the above.

Jesus, trim down that quote pyramid please.

But what will we store our grain in?

So apparently I'm the only one who couldn't tell the special forces tie from a regular tie fo?

What's really interesting was the concept art that has shown up for earlier versions of it.

From this...

...to what we finally got.

Apparently JJ had them keep reducing differences on it, as there was concern having too much difference would be confusing to the audience. (IE., name of the game on this movie - 'take the original, glam it up and dumb it down')

You mean "Take the Original, return it to the proportions of the even earlier Ralph McQuarrie artwork, and spice it up"?

Because that's EXACTLY what happened. Take a look at the shape of the TIE panels, they're more squared off like the original-original TIE.

Also, that second piece of art you link is pretty clearly concept art for the Upsilon class command shuttle, not the TIE/sf.

The fact that it's mounted on a swivel and DOES fire downward during the hangar escape is pretty solid evidence.

So apparently I'm the only one who couldn't tell the special forces tie from a regular tie fo?

What's really interesting was the concept art that has shown up for earlier versions of it.

From this...

...to what we finally got.

Apparently JJ had them keep reducing differences on it, as there was concern having too much difference would be confusing to the audience. (IE., name of the game on this movie - 'take the original, glam it up and dumb it down')

You mean "Take the Original, return it to the proportions of the even earlier Ralph McQuarrie artwork, and spice it up"?

Because that's EXACTLY what happened. Take a look at the shape of the TIE panels, they're more squared off like the original-original TIE.

Also, that second piece of art you link is pretty clearly concept art for the Upsilon class command shuttle, not the TIE/sf.

How would tilting help? If you tilt the ship you're also tilting the turret. There isn't a lot of evidence to suggest it can shoot downwards.

The fact that it's mounted on a swivel and DOES fire downward during the hangar escape is pretty solid evidence.

WHOA

BE CAREFUL

LOGIC IS STRICTLY NOT ALLOWED IN THESE PARTS.

PURE HATE ONLY.

So I agree on 2 Attack, but I think 2 defense is a bit strange for a TIE.

I also dont think it should have 4 Hull and 2 Shields.

2 Shields I agree on, but not 4 hull too. In fact 4 Hull is crazy high! 3 is plenty, and also makes sense since it isnt realy bigger than a FO, the cogs are just batteries and the ball did add a bit of area for the engines but the mass inside is changed (moving some of the engine out to allow for the gunner.

Aux arc and then a title to allow the cannon to fire in the rear.

I still want a cannon upgrade, and the missiles, but the missiles should not be 360arc, thats nuts.

As for action bar keeping barrell roll is best, and then just givng it a dial like the F) but with some fast greens like the Interceprtor.

Here is my guess

I think the rear auxiliary firing would be the best option because that is one hell of a depression firing on the sides to avoid the panels.

But I expect it to be a turret ship along with the ability to fire missiles 360.

Missile and Primary Turret.

Atk: 2

Def: 2

Hull: 4

Shield: 2

28 pts for generic PS 3

32 pts for generic PS 5 with EPT

Actions: Target Lock, Focus, Evade, Boost (originally thought Barrel Roll but then thought of the more powerful engines)

Dial: Same as TIE/FO if it gets boost.

Use of multiple titles and pilots to bump up ATK to a 3 or similar options.

Perhaps a Title that gives it ATK 3 (8 pts)

Key feature, first 360 missile.

So it's basically a better X-Wing at this point.

God, poor T-65.

So it's basically a better X-Wing at this point.

God, poor T-65.

What's funny is that apparently even the T-70 is kind of old hat by the time of TFA.

The Resistance is making due with what ships they can get donated or smuggled out of the Republic, and as a result don't have access to the apparently newer, stronger models.

But yeah... poor, trustly old T-65. We hardly knew ye.

i can agree to that....but I was using the strengthen in the picture guide with other TIEs at Hull 3. That was the only reason why I guessed those parameters.

So I agree on 2 Attack, but I think 2 defense is a bit strange for a TIE.

I also dont think it should have 4 Hull and 2 Shields.
2 Shields I agree on, but not 4 hull too. In fact 4 Hull is crazy high! 3 is plenty, and also makes sense since it isnt realy bigger than a FO, the cogs are just batteries and the ball did add a bit of area for the engines but the mass inside is changed (moving some of the engine out to allow for the gunner.

Aux arc and then a title to allow the cannon to fire in the rear.
I still want a cannon upgrade, and the missiles, but the missiles should not be 360arc, thats nuts.

As for action bar keeping barrell roll is best, and then just givng it a dial like the F) but with some fast greens like the Interceprtor.

Here is my guess

I think the rear auxiliary firing would be the best option because that is one hell of a depression firing on the sides to avoid the panels.

But I expect it to be a turret ship along with the ability to fire missiles 360.
Missile and Primary Turret.
Atk: 2
Def: 2
Hull: 4
Shield: 2
28 pts for generic PS 3
32 pts for generic PS 5 with EPT
Actions: Target Lock, Focus, Evade, Boost (originally thought Barrel Roll but then thought of the more powerful engines)
Dial: Same as TIE/FO if it gets boost.
Use of multiple titles and pilots to bump up ATK to a 3 or similar options.
Perhaps a Title that gives it ATK 3 (8 pts)

Key feature, first 360 missile.

So it's basically a better X-Wing at this point.

God, poor T-65.

What's funny is that apparently even the T-70 is kind of old hat by the time of TFA.

The Resistance is making due with what ships they can get donated or smuggled out of the Republic, and as a result don't have access to the apparently newer, stronger models.

But yeah... poor, trustly old T-65. We hardly knew ye.

I'm just waiting to see this new T-85 someday so I can fall in love again.

This is my last try:

(personally, I don't think FFG will make the ship that good - they will downgrade it, like they did with the TIE Defender)

EDIT: replaced for an updated version.

I'm starting to think you really like the number three.

While I understand the desire for the cannon slot, there simply isn't evidence so far that the vessel should have it. As for the 360 missiles, why the cannon 360 and not the missiles? They are on the same turret!

While I understand the desire for the cannon slot, there simply isn't evidence so far that the vessel should have it. As for the 360 missiles, why the cannon 360 and not the missiles? They are on the same turret!

It's not because the gunner has control of the missiles that the missiles are 360º. Besides, there is no room for missiles in that turret.

And about the cannon slot: all ships with "secondary" cannons got it. Why not the TIE/sf?

While I understand the desire for the cannon slot, there simply isn't evidence so far that the vessel should have it. As for the 360 missiles, why the cannon 360 and not the missiles? They are on the same turret!

I keep hearing this claimed but have seen no evidence for it, where are you getting this from?

The Force Awakens Incredible Cross Sections

This is my last try:

(personally, I don't think FFG will make the ship that good - they will downgrade it, like they did with the TIE Defender)

So, same dial as /FO? This is a crazy ship. 33 points might still be under costed.

Someone please do a mock up of some Mag Pulse warheads for Maarek's sake!

I don't see the /SF being its own model at this point, too hard to get all the detail on the cockpit and fit the peg on there, either sacrificing the turret or the cool looking rear viewport.

So it's basically a better X-Wing at this point.

God, poor T-65.

At this point, even the attack shuttle is a better xwing

Why a crew slot there is no way the gunner should count as a crew member, he is busy using the turret.

The rest is good, I'd even almost agree with the 3 Attack, since standard guns the cannons are supposed better than the regular FO's versions....but usually FFG ignoreds model of guns and just does if it has a pair then , if it has 4 guns then 3...kinda.

Also at that point, the Cannon upgrade is able to cover the firepower 3, and just do hvy laser cannon, or mangler, etc for heavy guns.

Otherwise I really like it, and youve put a lot of work into it, so props.

This is my last try:

(personally, I don't think FFG will make the ship that good - they will downgrade it, like they did with the TIE Defender)

I need a pilot dubbed, "Threes" if those were the stats used.

The Force Awakens Incredible Cross Sections

Where are the missiles?

Why a crew slot there is no way the gunner should count as a crew member, he is busy using the turret.

The rest is good, I'd even almost agree with the 3 Attack, since standard guns the cannons are supposed better than the regular FO's versions....but usually FFG ignoreds model of guns and just does if it has a pair then , if it has 4 guns then 3...kinda.

Also at that point, the Cannon upgrade is able to cover the firepower 3, and just do hvy laser cannon, or mangler, etc for heavy guns.

Otherwise I really like it, and youve put a lot of work into it, so props.

This is my last try:

(personally, I don't think FFG will make the ship that good - they will downgrade it, like they did with the TIE Defender)

It makes sense... I will remove the crew slot.

The Force Awakens Incredible Cross Sections

Where are the missiles?

In the heavy weapon turret. It holds 'specialized ordnance' according to ICS. The magazines probably only hold a couple of warheads at most