I'm Lizardman. I play King's Reverse DDT, which has they keywords Throw and King Combo (High Throw, Mid Throw).

Since I'm Lizardman, and White Crane doesn't reference printed anything, does that mean she can't touch it because I'm not King?

That is correct. If you're not king, it's "not printed" on the card.

Err...what?

Can you cite a rule for that? The only relevant rules I can find say you can't play the ability, not that it doesn't exist. King Combo is a keyword, weather you are playing King or not. Nuking character specific cards is one of White Crane's BEST uses.

Printed is printed, it can never be NOT printed on the card.

Because using the search function on these forums is like throwing a paper airplane into a furnace, I don't have any actual proof ATM. Though I will say that I was fairly certain this ruling holds from way back with Bitter Rivals, when it was ruled that a character keyword ability could not be discarded by a character that did not match it.

Then again, I do not currently have any proof. Tag might have a better memory, though.

-Tinman

Tinman and Aslum are right. I checked the AGR and it has not been updated, but i do distinctly remember this ruling. As Tinman said, the ruling was most loudly voiced during the time when Bitter Rivals was being clarified.

-Antigoth, just a reminder note, to throw that in. Most probably somewhere around 2.14.2.1 I'd imagine.

I never said I didn't think the ruling was dumb as ****, just that this is the ruling.

Also, for the record, throwing paper airplanes into a furnace is actually pretty awesome, which the search engine this site employs is mostly definitely not.

Yes, the AGR (and TR before it) states that the keyword doesn't even exist if you aren't that character.

Actually, the AGR does NOT state that. This was a ruling posted in these forums by ones of the rules arbiters.

In point of fact, the AGR contradicts this ruling.

8.1.1.1 If the card has the Character Only keyword and the character name on the card matches the character in the staging area, proceed. Otherwise this card may not be played.

That suggests that the card DOES have the keyword, even if you are not playing the character. You just can't play it.

But let's not let what the AGR says stand in the way of how we want to play the game.

It's not a Character Only keyword. It's a character-specific one. Different rule.

King's Reverse DDT doesn't say "King Only", it says "King Combo" so only when King is the starting character can that keyword count.

I think I remember the ruling now. It was trying to use Feral Shield Rush to fetch Sardine's Beach Special (which is an R. Mika Reversal).

2.9.0.4 Played abilities that are preceded by a character’s name (i.e., Astrid R:) or multiple character names (i.e., Charlie/Guile E:) can only be played by those characters.

But Combo is not a played ability. It's a continuous ability that allows the use of the Combo ability printed on the card.

-o-o-o-o-

2.14.2.2 Combo

Combo: (X) - In order to play the Combo ability written in the card text box, you must have cards with the required traits (noted in the parentheses) in the card pool immediately preceding this card in the listed order. Any references given to zones in the requirements refer to attack zones.

2.14.2.2.1 The Combo keyword is a continous ability.

-o-o-o-o-

Isn't Combo a continuous ability? The question is regarding Character-specific keywords.

In the old rules, there used to be a sentence explaining that. But it's not in the AGR at all.

Nothing explaining Keywords with character names next to them... although me and a lot of people remember the ruling on Bitter Rivals not being able to discard (or Feral Shield Rush not being able to fetch) Sardine's Beach Special if you're not R. Mika.

the point is many people can attest to the fact that its been ruled on that a character specific ability or keyword does not appear on the card if you arent that character.

My recollection is the ruling was generated w/ respect to Bitter Rivals being able to discard cards that had "Character Keyword".

I do recall a discussion of Character Reversal vs. Feral Shield ... but don't remember the outcome as well.

Regardless, the ruling is not one that is backed up by the rules at all. Hopefully that will be rectified.

My point is that the only places in the rules that come even close to referencing this kind of thing treat [character] Keyword Ability as if they were on the card even if you are not that character. They're just not available to characters other then the one referenced.

Yeah, that's why I asked in the first place, what Aslum said at first was entirely NOT in the rules anywhere and Aslum isn't the kind of guy to have completely invented it out of thin air. I can see why that rule could have been invented purely because Bitter Rivals was silly enough already and got worse when the keyword rules were changed, however, I don't need to go into exactly how much I hate rulings based on rules that don't actually exist.

aslum said:

This only refers to playing the card/ability, not the existence of the keyword, dude. As I said earlier, you and Tinman are correct that this was ruled on. However, it is currently NOT addressed in the AGR.

It's not explicitly addressed in the current AGR. I'm sure it's one that will be addressed in the next AGR, if Antigoth sees this.

"2.9.0.4 Played abilities that are preceded by a character’s name (i.e., Astrid R:) or multiple character names (i.e., Charlie/Guile E:) can only be played by those characters." as cited by Aslum, is the closest thing the AGR has.

Note that the character name here is NOT considered a keyword, according to the AGR. So it's a moot point. The ability is there. It's printed. There's nothing that can make it un-printed. (The old ruling no longer applies.) BUT, it's not a keyword, so it doesn't matter here.

In the case of "King Combo," Combo IS a keyword and does matter. White Crane could hit it for the Combo plus its Throw. Just because you can't use the keyword, doesn't mean it's not on the card.

ARMed_PIrate said:

This was ruled on with Feral Shield and Sardine's Beach Special.

Sardine's Beach Special will simply count as NOT HAVING THE REVERSAL KEYWORD unless you're R. Mika for any purposes. Feral Shield Rush could not fetch it for anyone excelt Mika. Any damage pumps for Reversals would not work unless you're R. Mika. The card simply didn't have the keyword if you weren't R. Mika.

The card will not count as having the keyword.

I ask because there are a few Character Keywords this time around and when I saw White Crane, I wanted confirmation that:

- She can't hit King's Reverse DDT unless you're King;
- She can't hit Fruit Picker unless you're Christie;
- She can't hit Ice Pick unless you're Nina;
- She can't hit Phoenix Smasher unless you're Paul;
- She can't hit Lightning Uppercut unless you're Kazuya.

Then again, if you're not either of those and you're running the attack, why should it matter? Besides...

- She hits Menuett Dance;
- She hits Crushing Embrace of the Jotun;
- She hits Dark Geo Da Ray;
- She hits Knight Breaker;
- She hits Dragon's Flame;
- She hits Twilight Embrace;
- She hits Fury of the Ancients.

You know, those cards that are probably the best attacks in the format? Just save a high block for the Midnight Launchers and you're good.