The special ability of the Tavern Maid is: "If you move into a space that has any characters, you may end your move there and pour them a drink."

What is the meaning of "move into a space" and "may end your move there"? Does it actually mean the Tavern Maid is able to end her movement as soon as she enters a space with a character, like the werewolf (from "Blood Moon") at night?

Yes, you can believe what you read.

The ability to pour drinks with random effects that could also benefit the others is more a funny diversion than a real ability. I think this is why they designed it to be used easily.

Yes, you can believe what you read.

The ability to pour drinks with random effects that could also benefit the others is more a funny diversion than a real ability.

Well, maybe you misunderstood some effect, otherwise I can't see a reason to be so annoyed by this ability, or for the Tavern Maid to use it too often.

On a 1 or 2, the Tavern Maid gets something.

On a 3 or 4, the other character receives a penalty.

on a 5 or 6, the other character receives a bonus.

Unless the Maid has the broken Scribe Follower with Misfortune Spell, I hardly believe she would use this ability at every possible occasion. It invests a turn for a random effect that has little chances to improve the character.

Consider that the Tavern Maid has no other ability. Starting Potions are ok but will be spent sooner or later, and the Tavern auto roll gives one gold, free teleport and access to Middle Region, but you have to land there.

Well, maybe you misunderstood some effect

Maybe you are forgetting something. At first you MUST give her one gold, no matter what. Then you roll a dice. If you roll 1, you have to give her one of your objects. If you roll 2, you have to give her another gold AND you have to roll the dice again.

Seriously, you "can't see a reason to be so annoyed by this ability"! Getting gold from other players, just by crossing their paths, and you call that "more a funny diversion than a real ability"???

Honestly, did you ever play a game with the tavern maid?

Well, maybe you misunderstood some effect

Maybe you are forgetting something. At first you MUST give her one gold, no matter what. Then you roll a dice. If you roll 1, you have to give her one of your objects. If you roll 2, you have to give her another gold AND you have to roll the dice again.

Seriously, you "can't see a reason to be so annoyed by this ability"! Getting gold from other players, just by crossing their paths, and you call that "more a funny diversion than a real ability"???

Honestly, did you ever play a game with the tavern maid?

I admit I've never played a 5 or 6 player game with the Tavern Maid. Probably that's the situation where she can annoy the most, because she has a lot of characters to follow.

I won once with her in a 2-player game, not because of her abilities but thanks to an incredible set of circumstances, and saw her in action 2 times in a 4-player game.

If she sticks to somebody's tail she can actually pour him a drink every turn. But it's not like the Thief stealing an Object every turn. It's a character harvesting gold easily from the others and sometimes taking an Object from them.

And hey, an Object of their choice, not an Object chosen by the Maid's player. So she can end up harvesting useless things that she'll be forced to ditch. Characters can just keep 1 crappy Object in case the Maid comes by. If the player is wise enough, he'll realise it's not worth encountering a character that has few gold and 1 spare useless Object to give. There are better things to do.

Well, then if the victims continue rolling 1,2,3 repeatedly, they'll be upset, but it's the same story for dozens of other rolls made throughout a game of Talisman.

My point is that the use of this random ability comes at the price of not drawing Adventure cards and of not doing anything useful to improve the character. Sooner or later, she has to start doing something else. She may go to the City to buy something with the gold, or draw some Adventure cards. In either case, she'll be gone.

In the hands of a silly player, who likes to play the jester and disturb the others more than winning the game, she surely can be annoying. But this can be easily resolved with a brawl, either with the character or with the player.

Well, then if the victims continue rolling 1,2,3 repeatedly, they'll be upset

It is annoying enough to loose your gold to her. If you play with the city, gold is a very important thing. To avoid loosing gold, you have to keep your distance to her. Therefore you can't even try to attack her. Do you really think, this is "more a funny diversion than a real ability"?

My point is that the use of this random ability comes at the price of not drawing Adventure cards and of not doing anything useful to improve the character.

That is ALWAYS the prize for special abilities. I would hardly call that a disadvantage.

Sooner or later, she has to start doing something else.

How comforting.

She may go to the City to buy something with the gold,

That poor thing!

Seriously: This is your argument? That at some point she has to stop taking gold from other players and start spending it?

Again, what a poor thing!

Consider that the Tavern Maid has no other ability.

Really??? She can CHOOSE the effect in the tavern (even free access to Middle Region)! And please don't tell me "but first she has to land on that field".

Don't get me wrong. You wrote that beautiful review to "Talisman". I agree to every word you wrote there. But now you try to justify an overpowered character with lame arguments. The tavern maid has NO disadvantage at all! She is not even weak, she starts with 3 strength and 3 crafts. And with 4 Fate! AND she starts with 5 Potion Cards. Pouring drinks has NO negativ effect for her at all (except perhaps getting an unwanted object), and she can use this "funny diversion" to others without even landing on the field of another player.

I have to agree with The Warlock on this one, the Tavern Maid is funny but hardly overpowered. Some strong characters She will stay away from once they start attacking her or throwing spells at her.... In a big game she can be more hazardous but if she starts to get too much stuff everyone will gang up on her and kill her. At least in our group she will! :-)

I like her character because her abilities are fun and hardly broken IMO.

Don't get me wrong. You wrote that beautiful review to "Talisman". I agree to every word you wrote there. But now you try to justify an overpowered character with lame arguments.

I'm not trying to justify anything, since I'm not answering questions under a contract by FFG or something like that. I'm here to talk because I like this game and to discuss its interactions, but I don’t yearn to persuade people with my arguments.

"Overpowered" is used for characters with huge advantages over the others, that make their game easier in comparison. I think the City Expansion features a lot of such characters and effects, and it’s well known for not being the best balanced around. Still, nobody started such a discussion against the ominous Tavern Maid in the last 2 years. This is a lot of time for you to be the first to notice she's totally overpowered. Characters are the most used expansion component and discussion about them begins immediately after release, if not sooner. There have been threads concerning the Bounty Hunter, the Spy and the Tinkerer, while the Tavern Maid has not been deemed responsible of public nuisance yet.

Well, then if the victims continue rolling 1,2,3 repeatedly, they'll be upset

It is annoying enough to loose your gold to her. If you play with the city, gold is a very important thing. To avoid loosing gold, you have to keep your distance to her. Therefore you can't even try to attack her. Do you really think, this is "more a funny diversion than a real ability"?

You could just have said this from the start. I would have gone straight to the point, avoiding arguments that you consider lame, just because they don't address your point.

So, losing your gold to the Tavern Maid is annoying. Yes, she's pretty good at emptying the other character pockets. Just think of this ability without the City in play. That's not so great, is it? You invest your turn to steal 1 gold from others and you don't even have a Flail to buy... Basically it’s what happens to the strong Dragon Rider in a game without the Dragon Expansion. Finding a Dragon to tame can be so difficult.

Since the Tavern Maid comes with the City Expansion, the argument "but if you don't play with the City her abilities are not so great" can be considered lame as well. Let’s assume you're playing with the City.

If she forces you to tip your starting gold, that’s fine. Punch her afterwards and punch her again until she loses the bad habit. This is the destiny of all characters stealing. If you’re scared that she might be too strong for your character, stay away from her, go in another Region and spend your time on some useful tasks. Don't carry gold if you don't want to lose it to the Tavern Maid; if you find Gems in the Highland, don't convert them unless the Maid is far away. If you don’t have gold, she won’t have gold. You have other abilities and possessions that might help you win the game. She has none.

My point is that the use of this random ability comes at the price of not drawing Adventure cards and of not doing anything useful to improve the character.

That is ALWAYS the prize for special abilities. I would hardly call that a disadvantage.

Spending a turn to take 1 gold is not what I call a good investment. The random part of the ability is, well, random, and no player can fully rely upon it. But if the other characters are so foolish to hoard a pile of gold, to gather on the same space and wait for the Tavern Maid to come by, and maybe enter the one-way City with her on their tail, that’s an entirely different matter.

Seriously: This is your argument? That at some point she has to stop taking gold from other players and start spending it?

I wrote that since you appeared to suffer the fact that Tavern Maid can encounter you this turn, then the next turn as well, and the next too. She may do that, but she’s limited by the number of gold owned by the other players and by the fact that she’s taking nothing more than gold 80% of the time.

Using this ability repeatedly is not a strategy, but more a way to upset players. There are many ways to screw a character that relies too much on his abilities and aggressively disturbs the others. Gang up and kill her, like it has always been done with such characters since the base set (e.g. Thief when he manages to steal too much).

Consider that the Tavern Maid has no other ability.

Really??? She can CHOOSE the effect in the tavern (even free access to Middle Region)! And please don't tell me "but first she has to land on that field".

CHOOSE the effect in the Tavern? What an outstanding ability. What can she do with that? Gain 1 gold, yes, we know she’s good at it. Teleport to any space in the Outer Region? Great, so she can reach characters on the other side of the board and keep pouring drinks. Freely enter the Middle Region? She doesn’t even need this free access, since she can buy a Flail so easily that the Sentinel will never be a problem. Why should she go there BTW, since she doesn’t draw cards but all she wants is to pour drinks?

Seriously, players are not landing on the Tavern unless there’s no better alternative. Good results on the table are ok, but are not game-changing effects. This ability comes handy, but it’s no great thing whatsoever.

The tavern maid has NO disadvantage at all! She is not even weak, she starts with 3 strength and 3 crafts. And with 4 Fate! AND she starts with 5 Potion Cards. Pouring drinks has NO negativ effect for her at all (except perhaps getting an unwanted object), and she can use this "funny diversion" to others without even landing on the field of another player.

A Str:3 Cft:3 character is notably the weakest at the beginning of the game. You're not strong in any type of combat, because you've balanced stats. 4 fate for a Good character are not nearly as good as 4 fate for an Evil character (e.g. Spy) that can freely replenish at the Graveyard. Potion cards could have various effects, ranging from the Unstable Potion to the Phoenix Potion. It depends on the draw, but normally they're spent in the first turns.

Pouring drink after drink may fill your pockets, provided there’s gold to pay for your services, but I can hardly see this as an overwhelming ability that cannot be contrasted in any way. In the games I’ve seen, Tavern Maid used this ability on a couple of occasions to secure some gold, but she was careful about annoying grumpy and menacing characters like the Bounty Hunter or the Alchemist. If she had, she would have been hunted down and killed, even before buying something. Nobody should underestimate the retaliation in Talisman; if you harassed someone, you will pay at some point. The more characters you've upset, the more sworn enemies you will have.

Talisman...serious business

Is the Tavern Maid allowed to end her movement onto a character whose pockets are empty ?

Meaning >> as the text says : "he must give you 1G AND roll" does this "AND" mean we have to pay 1G the Tavern Maid to roll or not necessary ?

Even if I refuse to play with the City board, I believe gold is a good way to regenerate thanks to the village and the city for example

On 12.4.2018 at 3:07 PM, stranigie said:

Is the Tavern Maid allowed to end her movement onto a character whose pockets are empty ?

Meaning >> as the text says : "he must give you 1G AND roll" does this "AND" mean we have to pay 1G the Tavern Maid to roll or not necessary ?

It's right there in the text:
" If you move into a space that has any characters , you may end your move there and pour them a drink. If there are 2 or more characters , you choose the order in which you encounter them. The characters must give you 1 gold (if able) and roll 1 die : ... "

Ok then I guess the Tavern Maid ends her movement into a space that has any characters and those characters will roll 1 die no matter they have 1 gold or not.

One thing I like about the Tavern Maid is the Pour a drink roll that allows her to decide the direction of travel. This can be used to send them to a what could threaten the character to an encounter which will beat them. That said they can be sent on a course into the inner area from the outer via the Sentinel, early on game wise this can a be harmful.