talking about Evil Sparrow in that example, not Fruit Picker.

Oh, i was talking about following up the Evil Sparrow with the now-Combo'd Fruit Picker.

Base Hold, Evil Sparrow (5M6), Fruit Picker (7H8)

RockStar said:

Explain how a single Stand Off can NOT shut down a SSS loop. Also please mention which kicks in her support do not become auto-donuts with a single Stand Off (here's a hint: only two do). Don't even mention Asfixiante, I ask for kicks. Then tell me which one would actually be run because it's not a 2 check. The answer is Fruit Picker (I can read minds).

Checking 5 or 6 repeatedly is kind of hard if the opponent is forcing you to negate a single Stand Off that would turn your Combo'd Side Flop into a delicious donut.

She has access to very little useful damage pump. For a 7HS character with less than 20 vitality, it nearly is the nail on her coffin.

I would wait until the next set is released. Acrobatic will help Christie actually have a kill card, by speeding the crap out of any kick with her support and Just Kidding, then Acrobatic FTW.

The key to getting around Stand Off is multi-fold...

1) Kill them before Stand Off hits their staging area.

2) Understanding just how much recurssion is present in Christie. Lunging Brush Fire can send a kick that was SO'd to momentum (and if you have Body of Souls, you may recur it) and itself to your discard pile (Researching the Past + Searching for Family > Hunt for Jin brings it back into your hand). So, you must be selective in which Stand Off you negate, and force your opponent to block.

3) For The Money in your staging area is a (very) passive deterent...if your opponent commits out, you can make checks all day long.

4) Play shorter Loops...Who says SSS is the main kill in Christie? If it is, than i would dare say that that Christie build is doomed to fail. Combo Fruit Picker should be the main goal of a Christie Deck...so...play Evil Sparrow > Lunging Brush Fire (clear the card pool) > Base Hold > Evil Sparrow (brought back by Body of Souls) > Fruit Picker (in at 3H6...hitting for 7h10 after all Es played)...if you have PotM down, all the better...

...heck, realize that even if you only play 2 attacks (and with PoTM), your second attack is going to be (off-zone) 5-spd for 9 damage (at least), or play Fruit Picker as your 2nd card and it hits for 7h12 (with PotM).

Stand Off is a terrific card. Period. Playing against it in a deck that doesn't have high-damage kill cards, or a lot of damage pump is very difficult, but not impossible.

Just figured I'd bump this thread since Christie needs moar lovin <3

So, we've got a lot of potential support for Christie in the next set. 3 characters have Life, one has Water, and either one or two with All. Christie's definitely going to get bumps in the right direction, and while she may not get any kicks, she'll get the support she needs to help her current kicks go through.

MarcoPulleaux said:

This. Cuz Christie is who i should've run at our store championships. Just had a better feel with her in the casual games before the actual tourny.

Note to self: Listen to your gut. Trust your own 'Fu.

WTF dude? I thought you said you were going to run Christie?! >:|

How did you end up doing anyways?

RockStar said:

Read quoted text for bolded responses to each point.

The meta can only improve from banning Stand Off. It's the main enabler for Earth grey wars and grey wars are boring and stale and we're moving away from them.

Stand Off also seriously limits what Christie can do because other than a combo'd Fruit Picker, nothing else is going through, especially since every other kick in her support not named Knee Thruster is 4 or less damage.

If you're still not convinced, look at tournament results. Who comes out on top? Earth King/Rashotep? Fire Hata? Fire Jin? Any cards they have in common?

Stand Off also gives fire a NOT-DESERVED, reusable damage reduction ability that doubles as a turn limiter. Hell, even The Ultimate Team has a better cost.

As a side note, I'm sick and tired of people making everything "sound" good by adding the parenthesis "(with PotM)". It's like giving a lump of crap a hard sugar coating. On the surface, it's attractive, unil you sink your teeh into it and realize that it's crap, no matter what you put on it.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Although in a Death buiild you WANT them to do that so you can use your Ka Technique twice (love to do that), if you think the attack is doing damage, commit it and something else for no reason as an E.

I dont usually run stand off and have no problem with it.

Its negated at the same cost as its activated.

It is not playable while commited.

I have not ran christie but i have not ever had a big problem with stand off. Its a good card, **** near a staple sure. But its not Olcadans Mentoring, Lord of the Makai, Chesters, etc.

Smazzurco said:

K but you're missing a few key factors

Like this for starters: we're discussing Christie!

The entire reason to run Christie is to run kicks. Christie has zero incentive to be ran other than the following:

-Natural access to SSS Loop (as in, doesn't need Path)
-Character-exclusive access to Fruit Picker's Combo E (which in this current metagame, simply isn't very good)
-The only 7 handsize All character besides Jon Herr (who, really, is better than Christie in most ways)
-Has an "okay" speed pump, as well as some "okay" draw.

See, if Christie lived in a world where she had time to build, that'd be one thing.

But she doesn't. She lives in a world where turn 2-3 is the norm, and with her dainty ass health, that can easily be hurried along. As I've mentioned, your best bet at keeping this brasileirinha alive is likely to stack characters with Reserching + Searching. If she only had access to Stand Off or something of the sort.

Anyways, besides the fact that it's hard to keep her alive, as Alex already pointed out, all of the attacks you'll likely run in her get mad donuts'd to Stand Off. Christie doesn't get the braindead luxury of playing 1-3 attacks with mad damage, low difficulties, and can pump them to high Hells, Christie gets none of that. No, Christie has to actually play the fun way: a series of attacks requiring numerous control checks.

Point being? Christie cannot afford to tap herself out for Stand Off until it will absolutely shut Stand Off down. While other characters can wade past Stand Off like Awakening days of yore, Christie cannot. Christie relies on using and re-using several kicks, and unlike her Form may lead you on to believing, Christie really does not like spending more turns than she has to. It's hard enough living AND wading through an opponent with her weenie kicks, let alone drawing all of maybe 2-3 cards when you've likely already burnt-out in the process.

Simply put, Christie's a major fail of a character in the current standard, but that can and should change. For starters, we've got new stuff coming out, so that's just a given. Sacrifices for the Cause gives All Christie, my favorite Christie, a way to get past Stand Off BESIDES Boot-crushing it with Stun: 1 and threatening the opponent with For the Money.

Second, as Alex said, I'm really hoping Stand Off gets banned (as well as Path of the Master. King winning every ******* event is just stupid). While Stand Off LOOKS like the most balanced card in the world, by the time a player has used the enhance on Stand Off, it's because they know, no matter what, they will not just have disadvantaged the opponent, but they will have done so in a way that is TOO beneficial to the user to the point where the card might as well have no drawback. That's how Stand Off, Financial Troubles, and For the Money have all worked up to this point.

Getting rid of Path of the Master hurts the Hell out of Christie, for shizzle, but it also takes a lot of weight off her shoulders knowing it won't oppose her.

So anyways, I know I went off on a lot of tangents, I'm just angry at how frustrating it is that you have a neat-themed character such as Christie who has to be so overshadowed by our current metagame.

That's funny.. for once I agree with marco xP JK

Standoff really kills christie, luckily I am playing in a meta where standoff is almost unrepresented (we got 2 copies total in the group) and potm, we do not want to use it.

This gives christie an actual chance to survive and win some games ^^ hell even the SSS loop can work if standoff isn't out..

Standoff and path are way to good, a universal solution if you need to get some offence/defence boost.. would be happy to see them go away

You said christie lives in a world of t2-3 kills.

I have killed christie turn 1....muahahahahahahahahah

As a 7HS she should be able to outbuild a 6HS no?

I think All Christie's idea is to be able to draw more kicks than your opponent can reduce to zero

As a Christie player myself, i have to chime in on this recent discussion.

If you're running Christie it's because you WANT to run her. MP is correct in that Christie doesn't really have _ a lot_ going for her right now as far as being a threat to win a lot of games. She really is too reliant on her staging area having certain key cards, and if her opponent can target those for negation (or blanking, or etc etc etc...), than it's going to be a bad day for her.

I happen to like her character abilities, and i am waiting to see what tech will change with her in the coming months and releases.

That said, Christie remains a _very_ fun character to play, because she really is simple: She does _things_ on her turn, and is only concerned with blocking on her opponent's turn. Her recursion, or at least the way i've built it: RtP + SfF, is ridiculous, and enables her to use her attacks as blocks.

She is certainly more of a casual/themed deck right now, at least that is certainly how she is perceived, but that can be a good thing:

Opponent: "Oh, your playing Christie?"

Me: "Yeah..."

Opponent: "Oh, okay...good luck."

Me: "You, too."

Most opponents will simply assume they've got her figured out. And that can be a deadly assumption for any game, against any opponent.

That attitude your opponent may have when you say you're playing as Christie is usually deserved.

What does Christie have to kill with right now?

- SSS loop: one block/Stand Off on whatever the third kick is and you're basically shut down for the turn.

- Fruit Picker: I so wish the combo were Combo (Kick, Action) instead of the other way around. Even then, it's the ONLY damage pump in Christie. In 18 cards worth of support.

- Path of the Master, assuming it's not blanked with Ka Technique, Rashotep or Ancient Burial Ground, committed with a Pommel Smash or flat out destroyed.

Don't get me wrong, she's a really fun deck AND can draw out the ass and can kill with FP with a little help from One With the Rhythm. Believe me, I was the one in my group actually wanting to run Christie, and she's still together and sleeved in her won deckbox because I don't have the intention of taking her apart.

Then again I don't have Path in her. I don't care to disguise how bad the deck is by putting a promo card in that wins games by turning it sideways. I want to FIGHT it out.

guitalex2008 said:

Sure, and i agree with you on many points re: Christie and her uphill battle to win games. However, i certainly don't mind Path of the Master in Christie, as she's one of the few characters who actually need it to help her win games.

Other characters that run it, not so much...but Christie...yeah, she does.

Smazzurco said:

No.

The reason a 7 handsize doesn't necessarily outbuild a 6 hander is as such: most characters, of all colors and creeds, play an average of 3-5 cards per turn, with almost all of those being foundations (some assets).

As such, while Christie may KEEP more cards in her hand, she doesn't necessarily build quicker, even with Searching for Family. Plus, I don't know if you noticed, but blocking is kinda hard in NEWFS. Christie just has the advantage of Rtp + SfF to re-draw all of her badass blocks, which is why I recommend packing some characters. The only problem to this is that Searching for Family isn't character-only, meaning you could use it in say Jon Herr, Padma, etc.

All Christie's idea is to be able to RE-USE kicks, not draw them (Life Christie can also use RtP, HfJ, and SfF). All has one gigantic advantage over Life:

Body of Souls. Body of Souls is going to get back anything added by Designer Clothes, Wonderworld Comics (another All-exclusive), and Lunging Brush Fire, leading to a whole flurry of retardation, ESPECIALLY when you keep in mind that RtP + SfF/HfJ = tutored Lunging Brush Fire, meaning repeated shenanigans.

All Christie also has two more giant things over Life: The Boot and For the Money. While The Boot isn't exactly fantastic, it survives Stand Off, has Stun: 1, and is just all-around good for threatening the opponent, especially with One with the Rhythm. For the Money is the biggest threat Christie can pose because, once again, Christie relies on repeated control checks, and that's saying a lot for a girl who is likely running more than 16 attacks.

If only Wonderworld Comics was unique instead of Terrain, then Christie could run Ostrheinsburg - Gay Vampires and totally eat skulls. However, she has to pick between the two, and Wonderworld is simply too bowss for her.

So, as I've said before, in the current game I feel that All Christie is the only Christie. The staging area protection and foundation-readying of Torn Hero/Perfect Sense and Gay Vampires respectfully is simply no comparison to All's ability to actually re-USE attacks, as well as its ability to get through Stand Off easier.

Also, I think this thread serves as an interesting argument to ban Path of the Master and Stand Off, just as long as you replace Christie in the title, as she is not the only one offended by the two.

We already live in a world where Fire and Earth can just braindead spam some Brooding, In Search of Plunder, Enraged Golem, Unstoppable Warrior, etc, while other symbols are stuck being little ******* with things like Regretful Existence, Wandering Dragon Staff, etc.

Yup...

Not to sound like a smartass here, but I'm going to post my Life Christie right now. Not only is she remarkably consistent, she also gets through the Stand-Off matchup and any other problem matchups people have brought up in this thread. Only thing that really kills her is a fast throw aggro, but she can just as easily go off turn2 if you set up properly.

Short version: Not only is Christie viable as a competitive build, she can adapt to almost any situation at any time and she does very mean things to very big people.

Throw-heavy aggro? Did somebody say Faithful Bodyguard + Researching the Past + Searching for Family for an unlimited shield? =D

There are a few things Christie can do to get through Stand Off:

1. Play Stun (which, outside of The Boot isn't really anything, unless you wanna run Close Throw/Hilt Impact or something)
2. For the Money threat (All-only)
3. Generic attack strings, threats such as One with the Rhythm, Lunging Brush Fire, etc

I've already stated repeatedly that Christie is simply a convoluted character who cannot really do much in this environment. Stand Off and Paid to Protect really hamper her damage output, Path of the Master is both the major kill and major threat against her, meaning it will both be a pro and a blow to brasileirinha. The only reason to run her is for Fruit Picker which doesn't look like much since Path of the Master racks up damage quicker than Fruit Picker ever will, and when Path eliminates the only reason to run that character

You don't run that character

Until Christie gets more kicks, as I've stated, all she's got going for her is one bad-ass kick and the ability to really draw and tutor **** hardcore, namely, Faithful Bodyguard and discarded character.

Guess who just got 3 new Kicks, *******?!

Ton of support to play around with.

Amarylis Spin + SSS Loop = It works?
Sword of No Name helps early One with the Rhythm
Soaring Dance provides momentum for either Body of Souls lawlz or One with the Rhythm
Together Again and Albion are going to cause fits, especially with Christie E + One with the Rhythm
Hall of the Warrior God works in EXACT correlation with most of what Christie stands for (because Robes-Drossel just needed more support)
Inhuman Speed + Together Again + Needs a Challenge = SSS Loop exists.
Loyal At All Costs + Lunging Brush Fire = The possibilities are endless
Fruit Picker + Fruit Picker + Ninja Tactics + Researching the Past + Searching for Family = Hit em hard with Fruits, clear the pool. hit em again (or re-use Ninja Tactics)
Soaring Dance + Action + Knee Thruster + Fruit Picker + Playful = Speed the Hell out of Fruit Picker (let's just say til 10), use Playful to get that meaty 6 speed (10 damage), then use the Combo E to get omega damage, Multiple: 1 by Knee Thruster (with momentum provided by Soaring Dance). Perhaps the best reason to run Water Christie.
Quick Strike + Fruit Picker + Fruit Picker = The first Picker auto-passes its control check and comes at a 7 high 9 damage, the second Picker comes at a 5 high for whatever damage (minimum 17 total damage).
Unrefined + One with the Rhythm = Every single attack has MAD pressure, ESPECIALLY the SSS Loop.

Honorable Mention: Battle Tested, Finding Happiness, Looking for a Thrill, Lost Partner, Ostrheinsburg Castle Throne Room, Quick Exit, Silent Xia Sheng Stance, Strange Fashion, The Strength WIthin (Close Friends with a BLOCK!)

There...Christie is now playable.

I like Unrefined and Looking for a Thrill. It's DAMAGE PUMP FOR CHRISTIE NOT NAMED POTM!!!

Unrefined is just so relatively unintrusive for its effect. You only commit it and BOOM, more pressure. Commit 2 and BAM, your kicks can deal 5 or more damage. Which sadly triggers Battle Tested too.

I am so happy... now, to wait until the day after tomorrow (unless a certain Kojiro person would give me a ride to the mall tomorrow because he too wants in on the awesome perhaps?).

Christie can now do the following:

She can survive longer-

Silent Xia Sheng Step makes blocking that much easier, which says everything, because a smart Christie will Research-Searching Carefree, and with Silent Xia Sheng Step, those Carefrees start at a -1 block.
Strange Fashion not just helps with Throws, but blocking as a whole.
Acrobatic is just stupid anyways, but it's going to help Christie survive that much better

She can kill-

And not just with Path of the Master. The days of Stand Off fear aren't over, but she now has more damage than Regretful Existence, and such cards as Playful and Acrobatic are simply too easy to abuse in Christie.
Soaring Kick may be Water-only, but let's face it, pretty much any attack you run in Christie has Water, meaning that you no longer have to rely on Wonderworld Comics as your Terrain (or momentum gen machine), Designer Clothes, Atoning for the Past, etc. The momentum, of course, goes towards One with the Rhythm, Capoeira Style (while it doesn't look useful, Hall of the Warrior God + Capoeira Style = +2 speed to every kick, and that's per copy), and Knee Thruster
Fruit Picker's just as viable as ever with more ways to re-use Kicks (Loyal at All Costs), more speed pumps, and of course, Playful/Acrobatic.

She isn't necessarily overshadowed-

Once again she stands proud as the only 7 handsize All character (not named Herr), but Christie has unique qualities over Herr, such as there being a TON of All/Life cards and Life/Water cards (leading to easy multi-symbol decks, including such things as running her off Life but abusing Battle Tested), and now it's easier than ever to abuse natural SSS Loop.

While other SSS-dreamers need Path of the Master, all Christie needs is either Hall of the Warrior God or Ostrheinsburg Castle Throne Room, and every SSS piece comes at massive speed. If they're backed by Unrefined and One with the Rhythm, you're going to be stupid hard-pressed to block each copy. What's that? They blocked Samba? That's fine! You COULD use the old-school tactic of Lunging Brush Fire (at 8 diff?) to send Samba to momentum then Body of Souls it, but why be lame? Throw a Mid kick, enhance with Loyal at All Costs, get Samba to the hand, play Samba (Combo Mid kick, remember) and re-start the loop. Use Finding Happiness to discard the unnecessary Mid Kick.

Although people are still going to be turned-off by mediocre abilities, a character-exclusive that's pretty much overshadowed by Path of the Master's existence, 18 vitality, and a whole slew of characters to choose from (ESPECIALLY aggro ones. Mitsurugi is absolute top tier, and it's up to James Hata** to stop him!), Christie is finally playable in a way that really matters.

Top 10 Best NEW Christie support:

#10 Looking for a Thrill - Cute enough, pump a kick's speed, pump its damage. If you somehow manage to do the inverse, pump it's speed (if you have two copies out, watch the lawls). Oh, did I mention how badass this card is with Hall of the Warrior God.
#9 Quick Strike - Life-only, but might just serve as a definite replacement for Frantic Search/Base Hold as the action for Fruit Picker.
#8 Together Again/Albion - Not ranked so high if only because their true magic comes in conjunction with Inhuman Speed (and this whole combo is Water-only). Nevertheless, free +1 speed is always gonna be good, and Together Again is a chase rare IMO. Once you get Together Again and Inhuman Speed, the game is that much more in your favor.
#7 Unrefined - Look, it's what Ruthless WISHES it was! The whole point of Christie's kicks is that they don't deal much damage. All the more for Unrefined to come in and clean up!
#6 Needs a Challenge - Away from Water Christie shenanigans, Needs a Challenge gives All/Life Christie one thing to look forward to: the knowledge of what to look forward to. Screw changing your attack's zone (though that's helpful), seeing your opponent's hand will seal the deal on SSS loops, attack strings, changing zones, the list is endless. Hands down one of the best cards in the game at the moment.
#5 Loyal at All Costs - Ugh, why couldn't this have All/Life? =/. Nevertheless, Soaring Kick to get your momentum, play an attack, get back Soaring Kick, rinse and repeat until you've burnt-out all of your Loyals. Of course, that's but one of many combos around this extremely loopy card just aching to be busted.
#4 Inhuman Speed - Water-only, perhaps, but multi-symbol isn't difficult, and at this point, Water Christie is totally viable with a whole list of combos her other symbols can't get. Inhuman is simple enough: find out what's in their hand, give your attacks speed bonuses and watch your opponent cry. If your opponent does not have all 3 block zones, and you have all 3 SSS pieces, they can only hope you fail your control checks.
#3 Soaring Kick - New Kick to add to the list, nice speed and off zone, broken block, and namely, another free momentum outlet for Christie, and in ways, more reliable than her other outlets because A: it's an attack (meaning once it's in the card pool, it's momentum), and B: it has a cost Christie doesn't care about. The only thing that makes Soaring Kick better is that a Lunging Brush Fire can continue off it.
#2 Acrobatic/Playful - No point in placing them in different brackets, even though Acrobatic is in all ways better, because they can fulfill the same goal: give Christie a mad reliable kill condition. In Acrobatic's case, of course, it helps her ass survive.
#1 Hall of the Warrior God - With all the speed pumps out there, it doesn't get much better than Hall of the Warrior God. While Christie doesn't pack much damage, that isn't much a problem when your attacks can't be blocked. Hall also works in conjunction with one of her signature cards: One with the Rhythm. Capoeira Style + Hall = ***Adon***-like speed bumpery.

I demand to see people's Christie decks posted

NOW! >:|

As for me, I built a Water for now, and to be perfectly frank, it's disappointing ONLY because Amy's cards are not just the only things separating it from Life, BUT, Life Christie can dual-symbol so easily =/.

Together Again + Inhuman Speed = YARG! But apart from that, I'll need to look back into Christie and see who is the better of the Christies: All, Life, or tri-symbol?

As confident as I am in All Christie, All gained very little as opposed to Life, and while All got her Sacrifices for the Cause, Life got Hall of the Warrior God, Quick Strike, Acrobatic...yeah...

MarcoPulleaux said:

Yea, too bad Christie doesn't have Life...oh, waitaminute...