I also wonder about Serrisu and 4 x Khiraxz Fighters. Fire at her and the Khiraxz get to shoot a lot. Fire at them and she helps keep them alive. I don't expect her to live, but she's the decoy that lets their dice fire more often.

define crap? Do yo mean none of the top 16 worlds builds but can still use ships and upgrades from those or are you talking about banning every pilot and upgrade card that was in the top 16?

For example banning Builds means that Poe can't use R2-D2 or autothrusters as those were part of the worlds build but Poe can still be played he will just have to take a different modification. As for upgrades autothrusters can't be played on IG-88B but can be placed on IG-88 A as IG-88 A was not a part of the top 16?

Or are you talking about if it is found anywhere in the top 16 ban it! Which you might as well go back to Wave 5 meta.

I define crap as something that is either hard to utilize properly, has a low jousting efficiency, leaves little margin for error, or gives the opponent an opening they can use against you. Usually, two or more of these criteria at once.

How bout Generic E-Wings? I can never figure out where to use a Knave, especially if you start loading upgrades on one

I define crap as something that is either hard to utilize properly, has a low jousting efficiency, leaves little margin for error, or gives the opponent an opening they can use against you. Usually, two or more of these criteria at once.

So basically any top meta build in the past 3 years. A little hard to follow.

I would rather make a restricted list based off of excluding the top cut of the latest premier tournament. In this case worlds. I would take all the pilot cards both unique and generic from the Top cut and all the upgrades that were attached would not be legal. Example Soontir can be played but Soontir cannot have the following upgrades Push The Limits, Royal Guard Pilot, or Autothrusters because those were attached to a Soontir Fel that made the cut. Both Push the limits and Autothrusters can still be used they just can't be equipped ed to Soontir Fel. As for generic ships that often come naked I would attache a "blank" to the list of restricted upgrades. Blank means that you can't run that pilot card naked you will have to put at least one point upgrade on it. For example if a naked Syndicate Thug made the top cut Syndicate Thug without upgrades would not be allowed but Syndicate Thug with "Genius" would be legal. Or You could just run a naked Hire Gun instead.

So using these guidelines and the top 8 results from Worlds here would be the restricted list.

Rebels

• Poe Dameron: Veteran Instincts, R2-D2, R5-P9, Autothrusters.
• Corran Horn: Veteran Instincts, Push the Limits, R2-D2, Fire Control System, Engine Upgrade
• Miranda Doni: Tactician, Twin Laser Turret
• Dash Rendar: Push the Limit, Kyle Katan, Heavy Laser Cannon, Outrider Title, Engine Upgrade
• Gold Squadron Pilot: R3-A2, Twin Laser Turret, BTL-A4 title
• Bandit Squadron Pilot: blank
• Prototype Pilot: Chardan Refit
• Warden Squadron Pilot: Tactician, Twin Laser Turret

Imperials

• Darth Vader: Predator, Lone Wolf, TIE/x1 title, Advanced Targeting Computer
• Soontir Fel: Push the Limits, Royal Guard TIE title, Stealth Device, Autothrusters
• Canor Jax: Push the Limits, Royal Guard TIE title, Stealth Device, Autothrusters
• Omicron Group Pilot: Emperor Palpatine, Sensor Jammer

Scum

• IG-88 A: Crackshot, Heavy Laser Cannon, Fire Control System, Glitterstim, IG-2000 title, Autothrusters
• IG-88 B: Crackshot, Heavy Laser Cannon, Fire Control System, Glitterstim, IG-2000 title, Autothrusters
• Syndicate Thug: Unhinged Astromech, Twin Laser Turret.

Again all pilots can be played they just cannot equip any upgrade cards listed next to them. Also any pilot with blank must have an upgrade card equipped as long as it is not listed next to that pilot. Upgrade cards are not banned to a ship type instead it is only banned on the listed pilot (so using the list you can take Captian Yorr with Emperor Palpatine, or Hired Gun with TLT and Unhinged Astro.)

Now this of course is just a list using the top cut of Worlds, If you want a more restricted list to reflect the meta I might suggest taking builds from the Top 16 of Worlds, the top 4 of nationals and regional champion. However that is a huge list to compile so I would probably just be lazy and go for top 16 of worlds and top 4 of US nationals and call it good. Unless Major Juggler knows a trick with list juggler that can make restricted list automatically.

Here is the restricted list using the results from the Top 16 of worlds with the Top 4 of all 2015 nationals.

All pilots listed below can be played, they just cannot equip any upgrade cards listed next to them. Also any pilot with blank must have an upgrade card equipped as long as it is not listed next to that pilot, So a Blue Squadron pilot must have an upgrade that is not B-wing/E2 title, Fire Control System or any other upgrade listed next to it. Upgrade cards are not banned to a ship type instead it is only banned on the listed pilot (so using the list you can take Captian Yorr with Emperor Palpatine, or Hired Gun with TLT and Unhinged Astro.)

Rebels

• Poe Dameron: Veteran Instincts, R2-D2, R5-P9, Autothrusters.
• Corran Horn: Veteran Instincts, Push the Limits, R2-D2, Fire Control System, Advanced Sensors, Engine Upgrade, Shield Upgrade
• Miranda Doni: Tactician, Recon Specalist, C-3PO, Chewbacca, Extra Munitions, Homing Missiles, Twin Laser Turret, Seismic Charge, Conner Net, Advanced SLAM
• Warden Squadron Pilot: Tactician, Twin Laser Turret
• Dash Rendar: Push the Limit, Lone Wolf, Predator, R2-D2 <crew>, Chewbacca, Kyle Katan, Recon Specialist, Heavy Laser Cannon, Mangler Cannon, Outrider Title, Engine Upgrade, Anti-Pursuit Lasers
• Eaden Vrill: Recon Specialist, Heavy Laser Cannon, Anti-Pursuit Lasers
• Han Solo: Predator, Luke Skywalker, R2-D2 <crew>, C-3PO, Millennium Falcon title, Engine Upgrade
• Chewbacca: Predator, C-3PO, Luke Skywalker, Millennium Falcon title
• Gray Squadron Pilot: R3-A2, Twin Laser Turret, BTL-A4 title
• Gold Squadron Pilot: R3-A2, R2 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret, Twin Laser Turret, Autoblaster Turret, BTL-A4 title
• Blue Squadron Pilot: blank, Fire Control System, B-wing/E2 title, Tactician
• Bandit Squadron Pilot: blank
• Jake Farrell: Veteran Instincts, Push the Limits, Proton Rockets, Chardaan Refit, A-wing Test pilot, Autothrusters
• Prototype Pilot: Chardaan Refit

Imperials

• Darth Vader: Predator, Lone Wolf, Veteran Instincts, Proton Rockets, Engine Upgrade, TIE/x1 title, Advanced Targeting Computer
• Juno Eclipse: Veteran Instincts, Stealth Device, TIE/x1 title, Advanced Targeting Computer
• ​Lieutenant Colzet: Tie/x1 title, Advanced Targeting Computer
• Tempest Squadron Pilot: TIE/x1 title, Accuracy Corrector
• Soontir Fel: Push the Limits, Royal Guard TIE title, Stealth Device, Autothrusters, Targeting Computer
• Canor Jax: Push the Limits, Royal Guard TIE title, Stealth Device, Autothrusters, Shield Upgrade
• Omicron Group Pilot: Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader, Sensor Jammer, Fire Control System
• Whisper: Veteran Instincts, Rebel Captive, Intelligence Agent, Sensor Jammer, Fire Control System, Advanced Cloakign Device
• Rear Admiral Chiraneau: Predator, Veteran Instincts, Ysanne Issard, Gunner, Darth Vader, Engine Upgrade
• Commander Kenkirk: Lone Wolf, Emperor Palpatine, Ysanne Issard, Engine upgrade
• Captian Oicunn: Predator, Ysanne Issard, Rebel Captive, Gunner, Proximity Mine, Engine upgrade
• Patrol Leader: Darth Vader
• Howlrunner: blank, Veteran Instincts, Crackshot, Hull Upgrade
• Obsidian Squadron Pilot: blank
• Academy Pilot: blank

Scum

• IG-88 A: Crackshot, Heavy Laser Cannon, Fire Control System, Glitterstim, IG-2000 title, Autothrusters
• IG-88 B: Push the Limits, Crackshot, Veteran Instincts, Adrenaline Rush, Heavy Laser Cannon, Mangler Cannon, Advanced Sensors, Fire Control System, Glitterstim, Inertial Dampeners, IG-2000 title, Autothrusters
• IG-88 C: Push the Limits, Veteran Instincts, Heavy Laser Cannon, Mangler Cannon, Fire Control System, Advanced Sensors, Glitterstim, Inertial Dampeners, IG-2000 title, Autothrusters
• Kath Scarlet: Expert Handling, K4 Security Droid, Inertial Dampeners
• Syndicate Thug: Unhinged Astromech, R4 Agromech, Twin Laser Turret, Ion Cannon Turret, BTL-A4 title
• Binayre Pirate: Feedback Array

So basically, just don't play

Nice variety displayed in that restricted list, though

Honestly with Dash you could just ban the Outrider title and he's instantly fixed.

How bout Generic E-Wings? I can never figure out where to use a Knave, especially if you start loading upgrades on one

3x Blackmoon Squadron, 3x FCS, 3x R7

Seems about as playable as you can make them. The problem is that you're going to face an Acewing list and lose one a ******* turn.

So basically, just don't play

Nice variety displayed in that restricted list, though

Not at all, you can just make slight variations using the ban list. You want Y-wings with TLT, you can fly Horton with TLT as he is unrestricted, or you could fly a Hired Gun with TLT for Scum. You want to fly Dash, well try without the title and use some different upgrades such as Ion Cannon and/or Countermeasures. You want to fly the HLC Outrider, put it on Leebo.

The restricted list doesn't ban any upgrade cards (although the IG-2000 title came close, and you could argue that banning it on 3 of the 4 pilots is essentially a ban). It also doesn't ban any ships or pilots, you just can't use the typical top tournament meta builds such as a 12 point filler Academy Pilot or Royal Guard Soontir Fel. IMHO a tournament that uses this list makes for some real good list building exercise. You can't just take what is off of the top of list juggler and throw it in your squadron list. If there is a build you like you might have to change the pilot which could raise the point cost or have a less synergistic ability or think of a different build for that pilot.

I just got to play a good list using crap

It was the direct antithesis of my Xizor + ace + 3 anklebiters and inspired by my frustrations with Zs.

The theme: ALL MODS ALL THE TIME

Guri (predator, virago, jammers, thrusters)

Palob (TLT + recon)

Thug (TLT + r4 + bomb loadout + seismics + munis)

Defensively very lacking and downright stressful to play (no mistakes allowed!) but wow, it just gives dice the middle finger

Jammers + Palob = **** your attack

Guru/Palob = **** your blocks

Palob + full mod Guri/thug = **** your defense dice

Seismic charges = **** your dice PEROID

Doubt it's actually competitive, but people here are finally tired of big burly large base ships, and it's this list's time to shine Locally

Low PS kinda sucks, but TLTs and bombs and especially Palob heavily mitigate that issue

Can subout Y for two blacksun bugzappers, but I'm falling in love with seismics

some photos from the tournie

the list was a lot of kiting, with Guri running interference. As with any TLT, you live or die based on how well you use obstacles

Palob v Prockets:

I just got to play a good list using crap

It was the direct antithesis of my Xizor + ace + 3 anklebiters and inspired by my frustrations with Zs.

The theme: ALL MODS ALL THE TIME

Guri (predator, virago, jammers, thrusters)

Palob (TLT + recon)

Thug (TLT + r4 + bomb loadout + seismics + munis)

Defensively very lacking and downright stressful to play (no mistakes allowed!) but wow, it just gives dice the middle finger

Jammers + Palob = **** your attack

Guru/Palob = **** your blocks

Palob + full mod Guri/thug = **** your defense dice

Seismic charges = **** your dice PEROID

Doubt it's actually competitive, but people here are finally tired of big burly large base ships, and it's this list's time to shine Locally

Low PS kinda sucks, but TLTs and bombs and especially Palob heavily mitigate that issue

Can subout Y for two blacksun bugzappers, but I'm falling in love with seismics

Thug + TLT is not crap. Make it a Hired Gun instead.

hell no. Not giving up seismics

hell no. Not giving up seismics

Okay again let me explain how the restricted list works.

IT DOES NOT BAN CARDS!!!!!!

All it does is make certain pilot + upgrade card combination prohibited. Again this is Pilot/upgrade combinations not ship/upgrade combinations. Seismic charge is only prohibited on Miranda Doni, you can put Seismic charge on Esege Tuketu, seismic charge on Warden Squadron Pilot, you can put seismic charge on any other ship that has a bomb slot.

Using the TOP 16 from worlds and Top4 from nationals only 1 upgrade card came close to being banned and that was IG-2000 title because every top Aggressor brobot list about had it and flew in pairs. Now one might argue that banning that title on 3 out of 4 of the pilots might as well be a bann but not necessarily. Also it is harder to get a pilot banned because every upgrade combination to include naked pilots would have had to make it to a top cut in nationals or worlds.

Sorry, but I think you're ruining the thought experiment by being overly pedantic.

I don't think it's unreasonable to include a little good in your deliberately bad or counter-meta list.

Here's my attempt:

Horton Salm (25)

+ Proton Torpedoes (4)

+ Extra Munitions (2)

Ibtisam (28)

+ Wired (2)

Tarn Mison (23)

+ R7 Astromech (2)

Tala Squadron Pilot (13)

Total: 99

Here's my go using the restricted list

Boba Fett - Tactician, VI, EU, Glitter - 48

Hired Gun - TLT - 26

Hired Gun - TLT - 26

While not ideal, it is in no way a bad list.

hell no. Not giving up seismics

Okay again let me explain how the restricted list works.

I couldn't give less of a crap about a restricted list

the 2 points needed to get a hired gun would have me toss out Extra munis, losing a seismic

zat is unacceptable, even though a Hired gun would probably be more competitive given people are wising up on how to counter TLTs with higher PS

hell no. Not giving up seismics

Okay again let me explain how the restricted list works.

I couldn't give less of a crap about a restricted list

the 2 points needed to get a hired gun would have me toss out Extra munis, losing a seismic

zat is unacceptable, even though a Hired gun would probably be more competitive given people are wising up on how to counter TLTs with higher PS

First you are saying that raising up 2 points for the cost inconveniencing your list thus ruining it will make it more competitive because of a 4 (mid-level Pilots skill one of the worst of all) would be more competitive? No you are not running the so called crap you are running Thug TLT one of the most competitive list in the current meta! So yeah ditch your TLT or ditch the EM and extra sisemic charge to upgrade to a Hired Gun.

The whole point is to break down the top competitive list for something that is less competitive. Hired Gun is not competitive because of the point cost increase as you already shared your grievances (which means the list is working) that you have to make sacrifices. Having 4 Hired guns with TLT means that you will have to throw out the unhinged astromech or throw out a Scum wing. When it comes to low pilot skill more is better, that is the whole point of the restricted list. Ships that are highly efficient in point cost such as naked Academy pilot or Prototype with Chardaan Refit will now have to spend more points to use by equipping a targeting computer on an Academy and dropping the refit on the Prototype.

Just because you put a lesser used upgrade on a Top meta tier ship doesn't make that ship crap. If you want to continue to run Thugs/Golds with TLTs you are in the wrong thread because this is an anti-meta discussion.

the hell are you talking about "top tier meta?"

it's not TLT thug "most competitive list", it's a single Y-wing complimented by Palob (which I haven't seen anywhere) and Guri (ditto)

I just got to play a good list using crap

It was the direct antithesis of my Xizor + ace + 3 anklebiters and inspired by my frustrations with Zs.

The theme: ALL MODS ALL THE TIME

Guri (predator, virago, jammers, thrusters)

Palob (TLT + recon)

Thug (TLT + r4 + bomb loadout + seismics + munis)

Defensively very lacking and downright stressful to play (no mistakes allowed!) but wow, it just gives dice the middle finger

Jammers + Palob = **** your attack

Guru/Palob = **** your blocks

Palob + full mod Guri/thug = **** your defense dice

Seismic charges = **** your dice PEROID

Doubt it's actually competitive, but people here are finally tired of big burly large base ships, and it's this list's time to shine Locally

Low PS kinda sucks, but TLTs and bombs and especially Palob heavily mitigate that issue

Can subout Y for two blacksun bugzappers, but I'm falling in love with seismics

I like your list.

I have run a three ship Scum that is decent, but probably not durable enough to be competitive:

Talonbane Cobra w/ Predator, Engine Upgrade

Guri w/ Outmaneuver, Autothrusters

Drea Renthal w/ Ion Cannon Turret, R4-B11

Took it to game night and went 1-1. The loss was very close though, Talonbane was in front of a Doomshuttle that managed to strip his shield and BAM! Vader crit for pilot skill 0.

I have toyed around with switching out Drea for something else but I haven't settled on anything yet.

I define crap as something that is either hard to utilize properly, has a low jousting efficiency, leaves little margin for error, or gives the opponent an opening they can use against you. Usually, two or more of these criteria at once.

So basically any top meta build in the past 3 years. A little hard to follow.

I would rather make a restricted list based off of excluding the top cut of the latest premier tournament. In this case worlds. I would take all the pilot cards both unique and generic from the Top cut and all the upgrades that were attached would not be legal. Example Soontir can be played but Soontir cannot have the following upgrades Push The Limits, Royal Guard Pilot, or Autothrusters because those were attached to a Soontir Fel that made the cut. Both Push the limits and Autothrusters can still be used they just can't be equipped ed to Soontir Fel. As for generic ships that often come naked I would attache a "blank" to the list of restricted upgrades. Blank means that you can't run that pilot card naked you will have to put at least one point upgrade on it. For example if a naked Syndicate Thug made the top cut Syndicate Thug without upgrades would not be allowed but Syndicate Thug with "Genius" would be legal. Or You could just run a naked Hire Gun instead.

So using these guidelines and the top 8 results from Worlds here would be the restricted list.

Rebels

• Poe Dameron: Veteran Instincts, R2-D2, R5-P9, Autothrusters.
• Corran Horn: Veteran Instincts, Push the Limits, R2-D2, Fire Control System, Engine Upgrade
• Miranda Doni: Tactician, Twin Laser Turret
• Dash Rendar: Push the Limit, Kyle Katan, Heavy Laser Cannon, Outrider Title, Engine Upgrade
• Gold Squadron Pilot: R3-A2, Twin Laser Turret, BTL-A4 title
• Bandit Squadron Pilot: blank
• Prototype Pilot: Chardan Refit
• Warden Squadron Pilot: Tactician, Twin Laser Turret

Imperials

• Darth Vader: Predator, Lone Wolf, TIE/x1 title, Advanced Targeting Computer
• Soontir Fel: Push the Limits, Royal Guard TIE title, Stealth Device, Autothrusters
• Canor Jax: Push the Limits, Royal Guard TIE title, Stealth Device, Autothrusters
• Omicron Group Pilot: Emperor Palpatine, Sensor Jammer

Scum

• IG-88 A: Crackshot, Heavy Laser Cannon, Fire Control System, Glitterstim, IG-2000 title, Autothrusters
• IG-88 B: Crackshot, Heavy Laser Cannon, Fire Control System, Glitterstim, IG-2000 title, Autothrusters
• Syndicate Thug: Unhinged Astromech, Twin Laser Turret.

Again all pilots can be played they just cannot equip any upgrade cards listed next to them. Also any pilot with blank must have an upgrade card equipped as long as it is not listed next to that pilot. Upgrade cards are not banned to a ship type instead it is only banned on the listed pilot (so using the list you can take Captian Yorr with Emperor Palpatine, or Hired Gun with TLT and Unhinged Astro.)

Now this of course is just a list using the top cut of Worlds, If you want a more restricted list to reflect the meta I might suggest taking builds from the Top 16 of Worlds, the top 4 of nationals and regional champion. However that is a huge list to compile so I would probably just be lazy and go for top 16 of worlds and top 4 of US nationals and call it good. Unless Major Juggler knows a trick with list juggler that can make restricted list automatically.

Why would you even type all this up? Such a waste of time...

I like your list.

I have run a three ship Scum that is decent, but probably not durable enough to be competitive:

Talonbane Cobra w/ Predator, Engine Upgrade

Guri w/ Outmaneuver, Autothrusters

Drea Renthal w/ Ion Cannon Turret, R4-B11

Took it to game night and went 1-1. The loss was very close though, Talonbane was in front of a Doomshuttle that managed to strip his shield and BAM! Vader crit for pilot skill 0.

I have toyed around with switching out Drea for something else but I haven't settled on anything yet.

3-ships are getting much more fun of late

it's almost 100% to due with 2-ships getting out of the game, finally. Fat PWTs especially are basically auto-loss to lists without enough bulk and dice.

Though it's probably not competitive, it did sometimes seem a little unfair. Then again, it's Palob we're talking about

Stacking mods while denying your opponent's or ignoring them completely with bombs really brings to light how ****** some lists get with a round of bad dice

How about:

How about:

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Push the Limit (3)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Shield Upgrade (4)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Push the Limit (3)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Shield Upgrade (4)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Push the Limit (3)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Shield Upgrade (4)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This is hilarious and I really want to see this played. Unfortunately, I've only got one Scyk.