How about a forum game slash thought experiment? Think of everything you consider to be crap or simply sub par and try combining it into a good list. I'm talking Scyks, HWKs, PS1 Starvipers, turretless Y Wings, anything you can think of. How far can you go while still coming up with a sane and reasonably balanced list?

4x rebel ops/spice runners with TLT

Bandit/pirate

Y-wings? 4 unhinged scum tlt Ys are devestating..

I'm offended, PS1 vipers are awesome. Run 2 with Thrusters, a z-95, and a loaded Drea Renthal. One of the Vipers plays flanker while the rest of the list jousts. It may not be tourney viable but it can definitely win a game or three.

Ys with turrets do not suck, especially TLT. Unhinged Ys are even more awesome.

Try 5x Y-wings with flachet torps...can it be good? I dunno. 5x ACT Y-wings can be scary, less so with BTL though.

I'm offended

As a Scyk player, you're not the only one.

My vote goes to double trando slavers with hlc/outlaw/k4/tactician and a cartel spacer.

Also:

turretless Y Wings

4x Kz PS2

1x Heavy Scyk with Mango cannon

the most deserving on that list, imo, is Palob

I was very impressed by how a HWK suddenly turned himself into either super Carnor (everyone refusing to focus while in range 1-2 ) or a super-ace that didn't give a **** and just gunned fools down

problem was, of course, dat dial and blaster turret. Wave 7 solved the turret (though the range 1-2 ability may necessitate keeping blaster until something better comes along), Wave 8 may solve the dial with (the infuriating rng-landen) Cloaking Device

32 points gets you the moldy + recon package with a TLT. 34 points, the cost of your typical cheap ace, gets you cloaking device.

after that, it's just a matter of adding some ankle-biters to act as bouncers (3 Z-95s for me) and then something with punch to shore up the 32 point gap (most likely a Mist Hunter)

alternatively, compliment with 2 R4 TLT thugs and an anklebiter

FFG may have gone too far with the HWK's dial. Also, giving it a new pilot for each faction really wouldn't hurt.

Trandoshan Slaver w/ Gunner, Tactician, Bossk.

hm.. trash..? let's see...

outer rim smugglers WITHOUT ion/lasers, hwks without a turret, interceptors with expose..^^

this is deliberate, of course. the game is in a pretty good state and ALL MINIS are great on the table. just that some (pilot)cards are not, and some add-on-cards are not.

but you can use everything IMPORTANT that FFG sells and slap it on the table to have a good game with it.

so no real reason for this post, IMO. if you like to prove that some things aren't as good as others - fine. but I think the better approach is "how can I get this to work for me", and you certainly can do that with every mini (not card^^)*.

*besides the scyck, of course ;-P @gecko

Trandoshan Slaver w/ Gunner, Tactician, Bossk.

Love this load out.

Drea Renthal w/ plasma torps and unhinged Astromech is pretty amazing. Get that damage in with your stress gifted TL.

FFG may have gone too far with the HWK's dial. Also, giving it a new pilot for each faction really wouldn't hurt.

my rebel AND scum lists both often have a HWK. not once did I have the feeling these points were mis-invested.

Drea Renthal — Y-Wing 22

Extra Munitions 2

Plasma Torpedoes 3

Unhinged Astromech 1

Ship Total: 28

Palob Godalhi — HWK-290 20

Opportunist 4

Blaster Turret 4

K4 Security Droid 3

Moldy Crow 3

Ship Total: 34

Trandoshan Slaver — YV-666 29

Gunner 5

Tactician 2

Bossk 2

Ship Total: 38

It just creates a massive zone where the enemy does not want to go at all. You can just dominate a half of the table with one of those. You can consistently cause double stress and slip damage in, without taking stress yourself.

The 'look at this huge ******* mess you made' Squadron.

3x Cutlass Squadron, 6x Cluster Mines, 3x Extra Munitions, 3x FCS/Autothrusters/Flechette Torpedoes.

The 'look at this huge ******* mess you made' Squadron.

3x Cutlass Squadron, 6x Cluster Mines, 3x Extra Munitions, 3x FCS/Autothrusters/Flechette Torpedoes.

Good luck gathering all the tokens for those mines

I already have 7 Cluster Mine sets, 8 when I get a Ghost. Same amount of Conner Nets.

I've seen Scyks used to good effect. Just don't use a lot of them. Don't use them as the main offensive tool.

I've played against and liked 2 Khiraxz Fighters w/ 3 Scyks w/ Manglers. You can also swap the numbers around.

A good friend has used Kath Scarlet w/ EU to fire out the rear and 3 Scyks (2 with Manglers) to hold back and fire. Do you go for Kath or the Scyks? Either way they are both firing at you. People would forget about the first Scyk being vanilla and fire at it, as well as get bumped by it. Pretty effective and I'm surprised I haven't seen it more.

Their dial is great and they have a lot of great options. Trouble is the Scyk's nature leaves very little margin for error. Unless you are using it as a 14-point super blocker, in which case it is absolutely worth it's points.

Why didn't the heavy Scyk title add a hull? And why isn't there a bomb option?

Heavy Scyk - Missile Upgrade + Procket + Munitions Failsafe. - 20 points.

Now times that by 5. Lay out a screen at Range 1 and shoot with the ones that survived the alpha strike at range 3.

Running with that concept

Serissu — M3-A Interceptor 20

Crack Shot 1

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers 1

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Missile) 2

Ship Total: 24

4x Cartel Spacer — M3-A Interceptor 14

Advanced Homing Missiles 3

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Missile) 2

Ship Total: 19

"Oh hi Corran, how's your Two hull doing?"

I'd be ok flying something like...

Torkil (or palob) + ion turret + Tactician
Cartel Spacer + HSI + Heavy laser cannon
2x black sun enforcer.

or maybe

Talonbane + Crack shot
Cartel Thug + Seismic + Extra munitions + bomb loadout + unhinged
Cartel Spacer + HSI + Heavy laster cannon
black sun enforcer

So - you want to fly these ships? It's more a matter of learning what they are good at, and putting them in that role. I don't believe that the inefficiencies in this game are big enough that they cannot be overcome through play and plan. But it does mean that you need to fly to your plan, and prevent the opponent from flying against your weaknesses. It also means that you'll be the underdog.


There are a few golden rules to this -

#1: An ignored ship can do a lot of work, whether it be a z-95 or an agressor.
#2: You can't choose which ship your opponent will ignore

There's an important caveat to #2 - you can influence it. This is done with board position- actions (tokenless or not) as well as relative threat to other pieces on the board. Learning to fly and build to affect targetting priority can help you use alot of these underdog ships.)

Looking at the ships you listed...

Scyks
Fragile, a dial that takes getting used to - no 1 forward, no green turns, but they do have the 1 hard turn and the 5 kturn. As a single filler ship - they're more akin to a prototype chaardan a-wing than a tie fighter. They're slightly more durable than a tie fighter. The lack of P.S.1 makes them less efficient at blocking. These ships also want range 1. They have a low threat profile, and are easily ignored. Barrel Roll + Dial makes this ship better positionally than a z-95, and P.S.2 is still good for blocking aces, as well as most ships - especially with initiative.

HSI Scyks
As above, but these get expensive quickly, and they tend to incur more attention from the opponent. The HLC scyk benefits from the longer K-turn, as well as the matador turn (1 turn + barrel roll). Missile.Torp versions have less "aggro" than the Cannon versions. They can also be outfit as control pieces. Generally - you want to increase the durability and Pilot Skill so you get as many shots out of your heavy weapon as you can. Also - when paired with a bigger threat, this can be an excellent flanker.

HWKs,
These ships in the scum faction - are probably the most effective version of the hwks - even when weaponless. They have abilities that combo well with other ships (Torkil/Dace) and with epts (Palob) - You can almost use Palob or Torkil without a turret - given the illicit upgrades - but they practically require crew.

When run with a turret, the TLT gives a high offensive profile, but synergizes least with the scum ability range (Rebel Hwks are better TLT carriers I think) The other turrets tend to completely overlap the scum ability. I don't think there's really any crap here. They can get expensive though - and if you overload a hwk, it will draw quite a bit of aggro. Keep them lean, and they'll do their job well.

PS1 Starvipers

Excellent mobility, though they can be a bit slow. As a blocker - these may be the best piece in the scum and villainy faction - capable of rolling or boosting into position. They have the attack value to damage tougher to hit ships, but can cost a fair amount. Despite the cost - these are in a pretty good place - They're excellent in close. They make for strong close in support - as a single, it may be ignored if you have stronger targets - in pairs they can draw a lot of attention. Just because they can take autothrusters doesn't mean they need them. These ships like to be in range 1-2 - they like autothrusters against a turret, but as blockers - harassers - don't need the protection the aces do. Also, I'd argue PS3 Starvipers are in a worse spot, given the increased cost - though they don't suffer from Predator and can fire before PS2 TLT's - so there is a place for them

turretless Y Wings,
As a torpedo carrier - they're alright, that will depend on what we see coming in the future. Plasma Torps aren't terrible. As a bomber? They have a roll - Extra munitions + seismic charges - a durable frame - they can be ignored, and push people out of chasing them. With unhinged they can have enough speed to get the range one shots the 2 attack really wants. Back in wave 1 - people were somewhat successful flying 5 with scattered upgrades. You can now fly 5 bomb dropping y's.