Why would I run 1 checks? Better question, why in Legacy would I even considor playing Chunners off Air when she has arguably one of the best symbols in the format in Void? If Ibuki doesn't see an Addes in the first two turns and the Chunners sees a LCK and Body of Souls... Well what does the Ibuki do then?

B-Rad said:

Scoop, go to game 2.

Odds are in Ibuki's favour though that she'll see a Syndicate by turn 2 after mulliganing with a 7 card hand size.

Note though that we aren't even talking Legacy, we're referring to the decks in their heydey (hence Syndicate, a banned card, being considered for Ibuki's build)

If we are talking Hata's Ibuki ( Last time she was used to win something major) vs Lowe's chun li (again last time it was used in to a major tourney) then I'm going to lean on the evil deck.

Evil-
Higher calivre
Addes
blood runs true
red lotus of the sun
oral dead
The anti K'

chain throw
suzaku
infiltrating
asurd strenght

owl face

Air-
Ira Spinta
Feline Spike
seals of cessation
heel snipe
Hyokyo Sen

owl face
chester's acking
willful (for hack)
perfect sense of alance
inhuman perfection(anti r)
Lord of the makai

The long term advantage goes to the evil deck as it needs to protect itself from the spinta. Evil wrecks air in the response war with addes syndicate. Evil also has the anti k' which can surprise air... air can respond with willful. It all comes down to this... can evil play red lotus of the sun and protect it and higher calivre also helps evil plenty... readying it's key foundations as air attempts to fight with r's. overall evil has greater foundations while air has the superior attacks. In terms of speed... they are equal with a slight advantage to air. Evil also has a strong reset in infiltrating and 7-8 anti owlface vs air's 4 cards. Evil checks are great with only twelve 3's and nothing under.. the air deck has many more.

Once again I would say the decks are equally matched except for the fact that Cun Li runs 2 and 1 checks while Hatas Ibuki is strictly 3+. in a sample of enough games Chun li will lose matches missed first turn foundations and such while the ibuki will not (assuming the deck is run correctly). Also keep in mind that ibuki can and will mess with momentum, something Hata won games with at gencon as well. Lastly Ibuki has draw cards, chunners does not with the exception, kind of, of Lord of the Makai. Ibuki can draw into Suzie Q's with BRT's and infiltratings, Chun li draws a foundation hand and she is stuck with it.

Awaken said:

I b-rad can make it out to Altanta in February, I will totally hype this as a feature match

Sad part is the only thing I have to proxy for the Air Chunners is Chunners herself >< And chances are I won't be able to make it in Febuary... Not the lack of notice or desire, but I get to pick two events this year coming (as I've budgeted out three small trips, and one has to be with the wife away from any sorta gaming stuff) and those'll be Can Nats and World's.

screw can nats, its gonna be lame compared to the regional ATL event and you know it!

Prolly, but it'll cost me 60 something dollars to get to/get in (assuming I can put up with anime), as opposed to ATL which'll cost me hundreds of dollars, plus more time offa work lol.

Brad, no need to go to ATL. If you are so saddistic, I will slap your face with my Banned Ibuki Deck come Sunday, Haha.

chun li beats ibuki because no matter how good she was she couldnt do much about being attacked on her own turn. Ibuki maybe nasty but chun li is what happens when you allow a player to aggro on his turn AND his opponents

GeneralReaction89 said:

quoted for amateurness

AwesomeDhalsim said:

Heh Kin I say we do Legacy Ibuki vs Legacy Chunners and see who wins lol

Tagrineth said:

Tagrineth said:

I said the same thing about unbanning hugo when addess was released. Drop addess turn 1 laugh at hugos 3 card handsize but that definitly didnt go in my favor so I'm looking -> way on this one. But yea a proxy fight would be cool between these two cuz the "he can have but she can have" arguement never works in my opinion.

.... what

What does Hugo have to do with anything?

Nobody's saying Chun-Li isn't absurd because anyone can just Syndicate and nullify her.

This is a specific example. Even with Syndicate in the format, there's only 3 resources (OUT OF TWELVE, so ONE FOURTH of decks) that can run it. Hugo even HAS one of said resources...

not only that but in this situation, even if Ibuki has to wait until turn 2 to Syndicate - which seems entirely possible, given that Chunners probably won't be able to do much to mess her up on T1 anyway - she's still fine. No T1 Syndicate against Hugo? Have fun with that 3 hand size trying to find one, etc.

Hugo doesn't factor into this, and I don't know what point you're trying to make by bringing him up in this kind of context. Not the same thing in the slightest. Yes, Syndicate gave some decks the edge to beat Hugo more often than not but so what?

Tagrineth said:

Lol guess I opened up a can of worms. First of all homeboy keep that attitude in check, dont make me have to sound like your mom and tell you I dont like that tone in your voice. Second of all YOU said it, quoted above. I merely stated that I made the same comment as you about (like you stated) a different situation and got flammed the hell out. Everyone can assume how the thread turned out due to tags response. That was it, end of story. But if that comment is enough to rag your beard you got plenty of other issues to be dealing with then who wins between chun and ibuki.

InsanoFlex said:

If you can't see the difference between the banworthiness of a card in an entire format compared to a single matchup, you're an idiot. >_>;

but in all seriousness, if you consider what I posted above being "flammed the hell out", YOU have bigger issues to deal with yourself there buddy. lol. but yeah, keep that holier-than-thou attitude, it suits you

so we never really decided if we were going with these decks in thier prime or a solid legacy showdown(Banned cards or not)

But either way id say ibuki wins because she has more then one way to stop chunners cold(addes, red lotus jank which stops spinta)

and what does chunners use as a kill now that spike isnt useable?

Last I checked, Ibuki only has 23 vitality. While Hoyoku-Sen won't be an instant kill button, you should be trolling the living hell out of her with Ira-Spinta repeated by Lord of the Makai (since we're talking banned stuff anyway), and using Nine Lives to clean out her foundations in the card pool.

banned ibuki was the one Jon one with in Canada, not the one James used, and iam sorry but that stupid ibuki would crush Chun Li, look at that decklist, iam sure Jon still has it somewhere.

LordAggro said:

Two Kasumi-Suzaku (no setup required, not even foundations) = dead Chunners

Tagrineth said:

Apparently you dont know how to read. I got flammed out in the hugo thread I made years ago, not by your comment (quoted above). And who are you trying to act like your some internet somebody. Last time I checked I made you look like a **** fool in two different events, the whining afterwards I clearly remember. "Your deck is more npe then my hugo deck wah". Keep puffing your internet chest, I'll keep burying you in person.

InsanoFlex said:

Wow. Burying me in person? Good thing we seemed like we were on good terms and had a hilarious time playing each other the last time I saw you in person, else I would've had no idea you had such a beef with me. :|

And yeah, I'm a complainer... I'm not quite right in the head, so I'm sorry if I offended you at those events (not being sarcastic, honest). As an aside, though, I remember the RoS Guile incident (I was madder about missing top 8 by such a narrow margin, as a note) but what was the other one? The only other match I explicitly remember playing you was your Arrogance Alba deck (versus my Death/Evil Cody), which, as I aluded to in the above paragraph, I thought was a riot and a pretty fun match overall. If there's another match I lost to you and complained about, I don't seem to remember it at all.

If you have AIM or MSN, it'd probably be more convenient to move further discussion there rather than keep it here.

Oh, and as a note, I never built a Hugo deck.

Alright kiddos

Can we has a closed thread nao? :|