People must be blind to what Hilde can do. She has damage pump and redux. Sure she is fragile with the low vitally, but with all the reduction that is now available to her. She can win the long games against Astrid and King. I have seen it. My players are always grumbling when they see this deck.

The only lost in tournament play has been to Zi Mei, 8 attacks and that was the first randition of her before the Tekken release, she has grown to be a real B!&ch.

dutpotd said:

This is interesting...in a Final Fight Poison sort of way.

On a more serious note. I've always found it ridiculous to hear anyone seriously say Hilde isn't good. Saying she's not the best is one thing, but to say she's not good or capable of winning a big tournament is ludicrous. Just because it may not have happened yet, doesn't make her any less good. Unless Hilde's opponent is packing Paid to Protects (which like 3 people have - hint hint, FFG), she really doesn't have too much to worry about.

ROTBI said:

Actually even if you opponent is packing paid to protect. On the weekend I saw Dut push and attack for 3speed for 67some ridiculous amount of damage.

iceman01 said:

Shhhhhh.

- dut

I would like to see this build of Hilde. If you're not comfortable posting it Garrett, do you mind emailing it to me?

No offense, but there truly are very few ways to build Hilde ATM.

Also, anybody who says Hilde sucks doesn't have a memory of just this last block. Sure, we're in a new field where Hilde runs the risk of getting OHKO'd big time, but Hilde has always and will always play the same: one big gigantic attack. Now, she doesn't HAVE to do that; as a Fire character, she can string with the best of 'em.

However, Hilde is at least in the A tier I'd say, if only because her vitality gets in her way. Vitality aside, she still has Dual Wielding, Stand Off, etc, and tri-symbol'ing her is extremely easy to get advantages out of stuff like Cursed Blood and maybe Torn Hero.

MarcoPulleaux said:

The cursed blood and torn hero are exactly what I tri into with mine. It has been hard but I think I have it down pretty good now.

There are quite a few ways to build her (attack lineup wise), either you go very few strong attacks with control function, you go very many attacks and string with Dragon's Flame and Hilde's rare foundation while drawing a lot with her free enhance, or you go an in between number of attacks (less than most other Newfs decks, but still quite a few). I have found the latter is best, granted many attacks have very strong defenisve properties, and not just the better blocks.

Shinji is right re: the foundation base, there are 'fewer' ways to build her and expect to survive, you pretty much have to get as much reduction in as possible as well as cards that will help her defend and strike quickly.

I will post my deck once I feel all the kinks are out. It still feels like there is something slowing it down though.

- dut

I guess I should also point out that I'm hoping Amy's foundations (namely good/order) will help me with the tri symboling into Torn Hero. It is very necessary to symbol into it with the stun in the meta... That said, if you can hard check a 5 and 4 and often you can still defend many a rush stun decks (survive that extra turn) with Hilde.

- dut

Well with Amy's attack, it's assumed a lot of her support is designed to slow the opponent down, so you might just be in luck.

MarcoPulleaux said:

I have yet to see Dut throw more than a pommel to get rid of any counters that his opponent may have and then toss a 30+ damage, 30+ speed attack... but then again Dut loves his solitare games...

kiit said:

That's not true, there is only 2 pommels in the deck that won on Sunday. And against you in particular you should recall losing your faithful bodygaurd to a Siren's Call... Also I specifically remember beating you with Beast - Siren's - Dragon's Flame, or maybe that was your brother.

There are multiple ways to build Hilde and to answer things that stand in her way from killing. The problem Kiit has is that he plays relatively slow symbols, Life... And becuase of this needs to be able to defend big one shots (i.e. his option to kill Hilde first is limited by his lack of good damage pump). There doesn't need to be many answers to Hilde when the most simple answer is to just deal 18 damage to her.

- dut

dutpotd said:

The Zhao Daiyu deck I want to build would struggle. It is not meant for fast play.

Homme Chapeau said:

Indeed, Hilde's worst matchups are fast characters and with stun (which is why getting torn hero in was so important) - hata, paul, hieachi, Zi Mei, usually chaos, all, and fire characters.

Her average matchups are against semi quick characters that deal consistently even damage, - King, Siegfried, Jin, most earth and some fire characters.

Her best matchups are against characters that take some setup, - most Astrids, ZD, Nina, and many others including usually any life/death characters and some earth characters.

In any case she can win VERY consistenty if she can make it past turn 3 and if built with enough answers to her answers.

- dut

dutpotd said:

dont forget dropping every copy of shadowar and stand off in the deck into your staging area by the end of your second turn....

kiit said:

Yeah, this helps with surviving to/past turn 3 ^^

- dut

dutpotd said:

I've seen 1 game in the past 2 weeks that you didnt play multiple copies of those cards turn 1 (other then the game you rage quited then ran to get kingdom hearts) {although the rage quit when the reduction was all face down doesnt quite count}

kiit said:

? You need to mulligan into redux with Hilde yes.

I don't think I've ever shown rage, except that 'one' game where you went all scoop becuase I didn't call a symbol when it was obvious...

Yeah, I did concede game 2 to you, becuase there were 4 kids waiting on me to get cards for them... Then I came back after running to my car and won game 3 as was the plan. I don't think 'rage' is the same as frustration , it is easy to get frustrated when people are talking KH strategy with you and asking for and about different cards while you are trying to play in the final UFS match against a crafty player like you (I only have 'so' much focus and attention).

You will note it wouldn't have been such an issue of frustration if I hadn't had a marathon match with back to back 'Will' Astrid's /// I don't need to let you know he is a very 'slow' player. Paul - King - Astrid - Astrid - Astrid is recipe for frustration (even if you do win all of those matches...). Reminds me heavily of the Chun-li, Chun-li, Hanzo, Hanzo, Gill, Gill esque US nationals this year... (I don't like Astrid).

- dut

Only Astrid players like Astrid , dut. But you've gotta admit, she is consistent.

OK, I heard a few opinions that Kisheri* should be A Tier . I have concerns about her survivability, since she doesn't have access to the legion of redux that follows Earth and Fire around, and thus makes Cassandra* 's and Hilde* 's lives a bit easier (I know Undisputed Ruler is good, but Death is not exactly the tanking symbol). Thoughts about it? Or any other character?

Kisheri has Flexible Body, which may be up their for the best defensive card in the format. Also with Cold and Indifferent along with a lil scouting she is able to end turns before they get out of hand. Her own ability along with Keeper of the Watchers also sort of acts the same way in discarding threats from hand before they hit the board.

She has alot of unconventional defense