Well, Shinji has been informative enough to post his rankings for characters and resource symbols on his newest article. Though I agree with a large part of what is said there, I have some dissenting thoughts about his rankings for some characters in particular (some being ranked too low, others too high). Without further ado, I present you my own rankings (with the rationale behind the placement explained as best I could), and I will be receptive towards arguments for any character or resource symbol being moved to another spot.

Characters - Summary:

S Tier - Astrid, James Hata**, King*

A Tier - Heihachi Mishima*, Hilde*, Ivy*, Kyoufu*, Omar Chavez*, Paul Phoenix*, Zi Mei**

B Tier - Bryan Fury*, Cassandra*, Jin Kazama*, Kazuya Mishima*, Kisheri*, Nightmare*, Ragnar**, Rashotep**, Siegfried*, Steve Fox*, Tira*, Yi Shan**

C Tier - Cervantes*, Dariya*, JJ*, Jon Herr*, Marius Gaius*, Nina Williams*, Padma*, White Crane*

D Tier - Algol*, Astaroth*, Christie Monteiro*, Lu Chen**, Temujin**, Zhao Daiyu**

Resource Symbols - Summary:

A Tier - Death, Earth, Fire

B Tier - All, Chaos, Life, Void

C Tier - Air, Evil, Good

D Tier - Order, Water

Characters - S Tier:

Astrid - Basically consistency incarnate. Game in and game out, she remains among the most reliable characters out there. Hata's gonna have to be careful about what cards he slaps the Weapon tag on... or what symbols he puts on Weapon cards.

James Hata** - Huge attacks, coming at you with lightning speed, and he packs plenty of life, too. Oh, did I mention he has zone-changing which can work on offense (hint: go Low ) and on defense? The current designer is a force to be reckoned with in NewFS , if you ask me.

King* - Hooray for free throws! Recursion and guaranteed damage make him about as consistent as Astrid, and that's saying something. As an aside, he can also sour a momentum user's day if he decides to actually play something from his hand.

Characters - A Tier:

Heihachi Mishima* - Block or die is the name of the game with Grandpa Mishmash. You can't say enough about a turn 2 Spinning Demon coming in for 30 (quite easy to do, actually: it requires 1 Need to Destroy in play, as well as 1 Spinning Demon , 1 Ascending Zephyr , and 1 character block in hand, and holy moley, here comes 30!). The only knock I have on him is that blocking ends the fun for him.

Hilde* - Little Miss Ring Out is consistent, but the S Tier gang can usually down her before she gets her motor going. If they can't, however, she is one tough cookie to crack.

Ivy* - She can bust out some aggro madness at record speeds, but she doesn't have the consistency the S Tier beatdown specialists have, as full-blocking her stops her cold, and she doesn't do all that much in the early game without her precious Gay Vampires terrain. However, the fact you more than likely have to tech specifically against her speaks volumes of her potential.

Kyoufu* - She negates blocks on her killshot attacks (you gotta block Knight Breaker or Dragon's Flame twice vs. her... *shudder*), which is just plain sexy. I'm not a fan of her E , because I'd pay 2 life guaranteed to get my block out of my card pool on most days, but it can be useful if you clean out your opponent's hand.

Omar Chavez* - Martial Arts Champion cramps his style, but he's still pretty solid, especially against the symbols that can't run MAC.

Paul Phoenix* - A powerful theme in Stun attacks, a sweet targeted commit effect as icing on your Stun , and he even throws in some damage bonuses to boot. A problem matchup for anyone who relies on their character on defense.

Zi Mei** - Giant Fury of the Ancients kill turns are what have gotten her this ranking. Give her a little room to breathe and setup, and she will make you pay like few others in this game can. The fact that she can conjure up 5 Multiple copies while having no momentum is pretty scary, and Autumn's Kiss can make it 7.

Characters - B Tier:

Bryan Fury* - Damage that can't be reduced, and plenty of it, along with lots of life. Good times.

Cassandra* - Good life for a 7 HS gal, along with easy speed for some nice Combo strings. Throw in The Ultimate Team and Paid to Protect , and you can address worries about having bad blocks on your attacks to fuel her E .

Jin Kazama* - He is great at the fundamentals; his attacks pass easily and hit hard. And any character even theoretically capable of going Unnatural Grace - Crushing Embrace - Launcher - Breaker on turn 1 has to be at least considered solid.

Kazuya Mishima* - His E is great, and is one of the major reasons why running him is worthwhile. His touted "blow up the world" F has proven to be more limited than what we might have thought initially (can you say Killer Android ?).

Kisheri* - Discard and speed in the same package makes for a very nice (and reliable) offensive character. Beware the squishiness, though.

Nightmare* - Getting to 4 damage isn't hard in Death and/or Fire, and his destruction isn't as costly as Kazuya 's. Too bad his damage-boosting R kind of blows...

Ragnar** - Lots of HP (the most in NewFS , to be exact), a solid damage pump, and some sweet stuff that only he can take full advantage of (hello, Stormhammer and Heir to the Storm ).

Rashotep** - Blanking has turned out to be a more balanced mechanic than what we initially thought... (aka it hasn't run away laughing with the meta), but at least he packs Throws and plenty of ways to deal with your opponent.

Siegfried* - Plenty of damage to go around, on a symbol that sorely needs it ( Life is the way to go with him if you ask me, though Earth has a good argument going). Sweet.

Steve Fox* - Pommel Smash and Paul Phoenix* make him cry, and the punches out there right now aren't all that, but that's where the complaints end.

Tira* - The Gloomy Side / Jolly Side mechanic requires some serious thinking as far as what you can build the deck to do (and can be plenty difficult to execute), but she has great potential from both her own support and any massive attack you can steal from other folks ( Wrath of Heaven and Siegfried's Earth Divide are the favorites here).

Yi Shan** - More consistent, and stronger than what you might think. I've worked on this character extensively, and he can be run as a straight Earth aggro deck, since his attacks are very efficient (all of them are 1:1 or higher on damage:difficulty), relying on Earth 's Stun power to muscle your attacks through enemy defenses. His face-up momentum strategy can make this lethal in a hurry, since it provides more Stun power and more damage ( Maniacal Laughter can provide you with free momentum, as well as an extra Stun in favor of your cause). Earth 's damage reduction (combined with his support's) will also go a long way in keeping you up on your feet.

Characters - C Tier:

Cervantes* - His first R is better than one what might think at first glance (effectively +1 to all checks with some luck), the second R is just inviting more trouble than what it was ever worth. There's plenty of CC hacking hate out there, and this is very watered-down CC hacking. If you ask me, that mechanic should just go away...

Dariya* - Copying is cute, but her symbols offer little, and you never know the full output you'll get from her, as that depends on your opponent's deck. Not for the faint of heart.

JJ* - I haven't actually seen him in play yet, but messing with decks that are more heavily dependent on their characters to motor (most decks overall, frankly) can't be all bad. His symbols pay him no favors, though, and play a major role in him being ranked this low.

Jon Herr* - There's not all that much for him (or anyone, really) to steal on his symbols... yet. Hunt for Jin makes him giddy with the sheer awesomeness of the combination, though.

Marius Gaius* - With some pretty good actions and attacks available to him, he sure can have a good thing going in his aggressive game. And recurring them to do it again is always nice, but it's kind of a bulky thing to do repeatedly.

Nina Williams* - She can be infuriatingly controlling, but her ability to actually kill someone is in question, since she also has a fully generic offense (at least you know they'll probably check a 3 on the block...).

Padma* - That bleeding ability is pretty fun to use, and can make for a pretty consistent offense, especially when you load up on Throws . Too bad she's as squishy as she is, especially when her symbols are spotty on defense.

White Crane* - She can actually use Lu Chen** "clutter up your card pool" theme better than the old master can himself, and her abilities allow her to generate momentum easily (cards in card pool + speed bonus = unblocked attack) and use it to devastating effect (2+ keywords? See ya!). Killing will not be her strong suit, however.

Characters - D Tier:

Algol* - TELEGRAPHED kill, and most of his abilities aren't really straight draw (more like hand flushing). Overall, an interesting, yet unimpressive character.

Astaroth* - No real reason to run him over Bryan Fury* or Ragnar** right now, if you ask me (except siding him in to annoy Cervantes* or Jin Kazama* ). Though his effectively character-only Hades Destroyer looks nice on paper, a 6-diff, 5 base damage throw with Powerful: 2 off Fire (which is easily his best symbol, and isn't really a champ at momentum generation) just doesn't make up for having a more conditional damage-boosting E than the other two big bruisers and an R that is a step away from useless in this format (not to mention less starting vitality).

Christie Monteiro* - Despite what others think, I don't think she's too squishy for the current meta; I think she's just a bit too slow. Maybe Path of the Master can fix that...

Lu Chen** - Out of place in the current meta. The momentum is too hard to generate off of a generic offense, and he needs to build too much for his reversal-enhancing E to see real play (by the way, the Reversals are few and far between, and the only one that has impressed me thus far is Gut Drill , and that's not even part of his support!). Plus, if you thought it was hard to generate momentum in a generic offense, wait until you try to kill someone...

Temujin** - No real use for his E until there is some at least decent momentum generation, and his F isn't nearly useful enough to justify only having 26 vitality.

Zhao Daiyu** - Can you say one-trick pony? Twilight Embrace is where she begins... and ends (see Algol* for another case). The vitality loss is cute, but is draining 2 life really worth making your opponent's next block check easier? And having only 25 vitality doesn't help her argument.

Resource Symbols - A Tier:

Death - This symbol currently packs an explosive offense, as well as a large amount of control pieces to keep the opposition on its toes. It has speed, damage, discard, blanking, destruction, negation... you get it.

Earth - As Shinji eloquently said, it is a very flexible symbol. Damage pump and reduction take center stage here, as well as a solid Stun lineup and a blanking lineup even better than Death 's. Also, it is at the forefront of the Throw game, which certainly helps its standing.

Fire - Just stating what everyone here likely already knows; Fire 's straight-forward offense is second to none. With damage pump and reduction that is arguably better than even Earth combined with card drawing second to none and loads of Stun (with a dash of check-boosting), Fire takes the specialist's approach; it does less things than Death or Earth , but it does them very well.

Resource Symbols - B Tier:

All - As usual, this symbol presents potential, but feels somewhat incomplete. Plenty of card drawing, but it might need a little more muscle to establish itself. Not having the Fire symbol on half of its cards can help to separate it from the Flame.

Life - A very techy symbol, Life has some nice pieces to counter enemy aggression towards your vitality or your staging area, as well as ways to easily push your damage through with a good Stun engine and speed bonuses as the cherry on top. The only real complaint I have is that its damage bonuses are few and far between; if your character is not aggressive by nature, you might find it harder to muster up big damage on a moment's notice.

Chaos - Momentum generation has been concentrated here of late, and it has some very interesting pieces. Its faults are relying on your character for most of your offense (though it has a lineup of some very offensively oriented folks), and being rather spotty on defense.

Void - IMHO, the best symbol at disrupting your opponent. It packs a huge amount of control and counter-control pieces to take the upper hand in any tech battle. Although it has a solid Throw game, it is undeniably a slower killer than other symbols.

Resource Symbols - C Tier:

Air - It has a very techy lineup, similar to Life , but it still needs a bit more differentiation from Death and Fire to establish its own identity. Also, momentum generation has always been an integral part of Air strategies, and it has been rather absent from the current lineup.

Evil - Not really established yet. Most of its cards have Chaos or Death (or both), making it hard to justify running it over one of the aforementioned two. However, I believe it will make its run (and I wouldn't be all that surprised if someone came up with a working build for it right now).

Good - Like Evil , not fully established. It needs more of the pieces that distinguish it from most other symbols (tricky anti-meta tech, Reversals , a balanced offensive and defensive approach) to really come into its own.

Resource Symbols - D Tier:

Order - All characters that have been released with support also have Fi re . The only reasons to run it are Bloodline Rebellion and Cursed Blood (a promo and a reprint, respectively). So it's still biding its time...

Water - Same situation as with Order , except that Fire is replaced with Life , and there is no promo to make a case for it...

LordAggro said:

No, I haven't noticed, because it's not true.

If you mean that they don't have a kill condition... I still don't see it.

If you mean they don't have enough characters.... still don't.

Enough support? Uh... I have no clue what you're talking about.

(Someone's forgetting Tira, Ivy and Siegfried...)

edit: Don't forget that All Life is Prey works pretty well with Fury of the Ancients in Zi Mei... infuriatingly well. "I'll give it Multiple:2. Zi Mei E. Multiple:3 (blows up 3), Multiple:2 (blows up 2), All Life is Prey for +5..." I don't know about you, but I tend to dislike 6 attacks that are coming at me for 5M8 played for the price of having foundations out.

JJ hurts from his symbols. At the moment, Order is borderline pathetic, Void almost follows suit exactly (Void support tends to work very well... but only for their character), and if you're going off of Evil, you might as well use Bryan Fury or something or other.

As a Zi Mei player I can say your analysis of her is wrong.
Zi Mei is very very mid tier. Fury of the Ancients should be A tier though.
And you'll never block a fury with mark unless things going horribly wrong with Zi Mei.
She can kill without Fury, its just a bit more difficult and requires more clever deck building than ZM + Fury.

2 days played: 14 rounds Anytime path became relevant it was just overkill except in like two games.
People main / sided marks and not once was it blocked with that.

Also speaking about All life is prey that card was great in my deck over SAS as a low block.
I think I activated it once, most of the time it turned side ways to pass a check. Shes too squishy for later game when "Rainbow Delivery System" really shines.

Paul is mentioned as being high tier, yet he is yet to be used in a tournament other than maybe a sideboard character. Other than being able to deal with a problem card, many others can run a Fire deck better than him; even Bryan Fury. Order is crap and All is another symbol others play better than him.

Frankly, off of any symbol, there are better characters than Paul. That doesn't make Paul bad, but it certainly doesn't make him top tier. At least not yet.

I hear making anything a Pommel Smash is kinda good. I hear having all your attacks except Gut Drill match all three of your symbols and have lots of stun is kinda good. I hear Alex Marco ran Paul to two top 8s at the SAS. Nah Paul's crap.

Just because you like Yi Shan(trust me I am a big fan of him too) and have beaten people with him doesn't make him good. I am sorry but there are SO many played cards right now that just totally wreck him. Mishima Zaibatsu Leader, War Between Systers, King and about half of his support cards..... There is so much momentum hate right now and very few good options of getting it. I have tested Yi Shan very extensively as well and while he can do some awesome things he just gets totally wrecked when your opponent has any of the aforementioned cards in the staging.

My thing is, as I said on Shinji's thread, what the hell does any of this even mean? For example, as Ben wrote, the analysis of Zi Mei is flat out wrong. You are not blocking Fury in a Zi Mei deck unless ZM deck sucks or the player made a horrible mistake. You should be stunned out to to hell long before the Fury hits. Considering Ben was 4th at SAS, and 2nd on the following day's singles event, I would think that would make Zi Mei far better than these rankings indicate.

What is the purpose of these rankings? All it does is encourage pointless, fruitless debate that is utterly meaningless. For casual players, it's a discouragement to see that their favorite characters are low ranked and dissaudes experimentation. For competitive players, this is not a good gauge of anything since different builds of different characters are far more relevant.

If you really want a ranking that makes even remote sense, you should get as specific as possible. For example, "James Hata" by itself is far less significant than "James Hata - Fire (Paul base) w/Hammer + Breaker/Launcher". That tells me, as a tournament player, something relevant, that the best build of Hata is off Fire, heavily using Paul's foundations, with Hammer Of the Gods as a setup attack into a Knight Breaker/Midnight Launcher kill if needed.

Tier listing is also completely arbitrary, because again the specific build is what's important, and how you play it. We can argue till we're blue in the face but it doesn't really matter at all in the scheme of things, that's my point. A clever player tries to exploit characters in a particular way, not generically, and so listing all characters in a generic tier ranking serves no purpose in my opinion.

@guitalex2008: Just reporting my observations in that regard; I've found it harder to put my opponent away using Life than with Death , Earth , or Fire overall. Characters that are fully generic on offense, such as Lu Chen** , have a hard time finishing fights. Ivy* , Siegfried* , and Tira* can kill, certainly, but I don't feel any other deck off of Life can (and Tira* is best off of Death , I think).

On the subject of Paul Phoenix* , I believe that his abilities are good enough to justify being A Tier . Making any Stun a Pommel Smash is good, too.

@Nfxon: Good points, all of them. I will probably be talking more about that giant Fury of the Ancients kill, then.

@B-Rad: My thoughts exactly.

@Sol Badguy: I've been able to win games with those pieces out (and multiple copies of them, too). The key is plenty of Stun attacks, Maniacal Laughter combined with Tieh Lei , and Atoning for the Past to generate face-up momentum at a moment's notice. Also, Pendant of the Western Paradise means that every time you toss my momentum, I take a page from King* 's book and grab a free attack (I feel that the Pendant is what pushes me over the top, to be honest). Is momentum hate a pain in the arse? Heck yes. Can it be overcome? I just told you how. Mid tier if you ask me.

@VikramS: Mental exercise, mostly; people will argue for (and against) characters, and it helps to highlight strengths and weaknesses. Can the same thing be accomplished with a simple tech discussion? Sure. Would it be preferable to do so? I'm not sure we'd get the same fire in the discussion.

Seriously, there is a benefit to doing this, it is a mental exercise and it is a good way to gather opinion quickly. Vik is right though, any contention of opinion should be followed by deck specifics and discussion from there.

My opinion, these are the tiers.

Royalty Class - King, Astrid

A Class - Hilde, Zi Mei

B Class - Cassandra, Hata, Omar, Heiachi, Jin,

C Class - Paul, Rashotep, Steve, Fury, Tira, Popscicle, Marius, Ragnar, Nina, Herr, ZD, Kaz,

D Class - Padma, Nightmare, Ivy, Siggers, Christie, Crane

E Class - Cervantes, Algol, Temujin, Astaroth, Yi Shan, Lu Chen

Quite frankly, the King and Queen of the game have exceedingly strong character abilities and access to a large number of cards (fire and earth). In my mind there is a distinct difference between them and anyone below them on the tier list.

Hilde is top tier. Consistency exists, I have won the last 19/20 matches with her, taking the last 4 store tournaments I've played as her and with relative ease. Fire provides enough damage reduction and varied blocks to enable Hilde and Zi Mei to survive most/all onslaughts if played and built right. They have troubles surviving long games against King and Astrid, but can compete, again if built discreetly enough.

- dut

B-Rad said:

Did you hear that Gut Drill isn't part of his support? It's part of the "random" cards at the end of the set, which include Raven and Law, and depicts Steve Fox owning him hardcore.

@Vik: I'm glad you're back, as you sometimes write well-thought-out articles and can bring some interesting perspectives to the table. That being said, I really didn't expect you to address the OP like that, man. If he wants to make a ranking of what he feels the tiers are, let him. First of all, it's not hurting anyone. Secondly, it's just his opinion and he doesn't present it at anything other than that (so it's not like it's going to hurt casual players to see that their character isn't where they want it). Also, it's way more constructive then some of the other tomfoolery that goes on in most threads. He makes his opinion known and backs up his perspective with facts and insights (just like you do with your articles). He's not rambling about wanting an unbanworthy card to be banned, he's not trolling other people, and he's not posting something that should be in the off-topic boards like lava sharks, sad pandas, or what have you. Didn't mean to go on a tangent, but I really didn't expect that from a veteran player like yourself. These boards are fairly dead right now as it is, let the dude start a topic in peace, man.

@Dut: Personally, I agree with your tier placement more. I don't think Herr and Astaroth should be considered on the same level. One question though: Why is Marius listed as opposed to, say, White Crane?

ROTBI said:

? Crane is there. I have her in a lower tier than say Gayus. But that is my opinion is all. Our White Cranes have been competitive, I just figure Gayus with access to better symbols (at the moment) has a better tier position. Their abilities are probably quite comparable re: relative strength even though they are quite different (speed and attack negation vs. damage/speed and action recursion)

I'm sorry but I use some nicknames every now and then. Crane is White Crane. Black Pospsicle is Kisheri, ZD is the wicked witch of the shadowest etc.

- dut

dutpotd said:

lols, my bad, totally read right past it. I think I was looking for "white"

Don't know if it's been mentioned, or if this even matters, but...'Stroth makes Jin cry.

dutpotd said:

As always, dutpotd , I respect and appreciate with your opinion, so my reply here will take the form of comments and inquiries.

Have you really found that there is a huge gap between King* and Astrid and other characters? I would love to discuss tech about these characters with you, as these characters haven't dominated my local meta to the extent that you describe (and we have most, if not all, of the pieces available to them). As a matter of fact, King* has actually done rather poorly here...

Nina Williams* and Zhao Daiyu** sit at C Class while Yi Shan** is at E Class and Siegfried* is at D Class ? Care to elaborate? I've run these characters, and I've found Nina to be annoying, but unable to close the door on opponents, and ZD has just been bad, whereas Siggy and Yi Shan have been very consistent and their abilities have seen plenty of play. I'd love to know why you rank them where you do.

Well, guys, I've revised my tier rankings a bit, to be more in line with what you guys have told me, and I've made the decision to split some more hairs and rank them as dutpotd does. I've also added the ShadoWar promo characters to the ranking. Any other comments will be appreciated.

@ROTBI: Thanks for the positive comments on my behalf, bro. Appreciated.

@RockStar: Hey, there's a good one. I'll add that to the character's descriptor...

Almost forgot; I added overall rankings for the symbols. If anyone wants to look those over, I'd appreciate it as well.

LordAggro said:

Oh eat my D dog

LordAggro said:

Thx for the appreciation Mr. Aggro, I really do like threads like these, and obviously there will be differing opinions and results becuase different metas play to slightly different styles, disecting this is half the fun of threads like these ^^

I'll speak to an overall comment first before addressing the quoted text. I find it interesting that on one hand you have life and air as top and second to the top symbols becuase of their tech , and yet consider ZD and Nina (also good more or less soley because of their tech ) to be lower than their strictly agro counterparts (Shan and Sieg).

That said, I agree with your symbol ranking to a large extent. I do see Fire and Earth as slightly better than Death, and I do not see air on par with void/all/chaos, nor do I see life on par fire/earth or even death for that matter. I've posted my ranking elsewhere but it is something like this:

1 - Fire, Earth

1.5 - Death

2 - All, Void, Chaos

2.5 - Life

3 - Air, Good, Evil

4 - Order, Water

Speaking now to the selected text: I do find King and Astrid to be a gap ahead of any other characters. I wouldn't call this gap 'huge' , but I did note a distinct difference, the difference being the consistent effectiveness of their respective abilities. There are very few 'answers' to what they do, almost entirely just Rashotep, granted King's F has no response to counter (blanking him on an early attack is possible, as is reversal pommel or something, but these are rare, the latter more rare because King will almost certainly be utilizing Torn Hero) and granted Astrid's floating reversal text gives her a lot of flexibility - most importantly the flexibility to 'build', she can play defensively and then reverse appropriately, many other characters in this meta need to be agressive lest they suffer being behind or simply not being able to break through with enough damage later.

Now, don't get me wrong, both the King and Queen are beatable, and especially against what exist as slight counters. I find King's counter to be anything that can half block easily and often and then throw out big damage attacks early (Heiachi and Jin, Ragnar, and others seem to do 'better' against King than others do). I find Astrid is best contained by a deck that can keep up with her draw (Financial Troubles and Relentless add up quickly turn 3 and beyond) and her build. Speed reduction that is reusable, or a way to stop Astrid from repeatedly using her +x damage enhance is very important. Astrid also slows to cards that stop reusable responses on her UR asset, or reusable enhances on some of her other support/assets. Both of them are beatable by mass agro if they are not careful (are not finely built to have the right blocks/checks/defensive pieces/etc.).

Shan and Sieg are very simple earth beat characters. Okay, that is mean of me, there is a lot of tech involved with Shan, but often it takes a few turns to make it happen, and yes - he fails hard against momentum destruction. King is a bad matchup for Shan, as is anyone running War Between Sisters, From the Mouse, Leadership, etc. The reason I find these two character types (I am assuming more or less strict Earth beats, either of them off of life have even less damage pump and I find are again, not fast enough to compete off life at the moment) lesser than Nina and ZD is that they are less 'potent'. They may, in fact, be slightly more consistent, i.e. it is easy to every game throw out 10 damage throws turn 2, then 20 damage of throws and attacks, then 30, etc. etc. with Shan and Sieg. However, a well built ZD or Nina can choke out the most consistent of offenses (minor choke on King and Queen, hard choke on practically anyone else), both of these characters manage the damage thrown at them very well, both have a lot of counters to standard problems (off death) and both of them have semi-reliable kills off Knight Breaker + Path, the Knight Breaker itself being a wrecking ball against problem foundations early/mid game.

The 'big' reason I find Shan and Sieg falling is becuase Earth doesn't have a lot of 'draw/build' options. Earth is limited to Path and a few foundations/attacks with symbols on them for draw. What this means is that for the first 3 turns and 6hs they are problaby playing fewer foundations and more attacks, in fact it is not uncommon for them to be 'forced' to attack turn 2 or 3 becuase that is all they have in their hand. i.e. turn 1 = 2 attacks and 4 foundations, play 4 foundations, maybe failing 1. Turn 2 = 4 attacks and 2 foundations, they are now forced to attack (which one or two attacks can be easily blocked/reduced by certain characters) and 'maybe' play 2 foundations. From here on, the turn where they are 2 foundations or less and the opponent continues to play 3+, they are officially behind and can be choked out by a tech character, or slammed hard on the counter (after they attack burning resources and blocks or whatever) turn 2/3 by a character like Heiachi/Jin - i.e. those 5+ foundations, some commited from the attack, fall to stun and multiple attacks very quickly, wheras 6+ foundations have a better time dealing with a similar turn 2/3 attack. 1) becuase the build deck isn't comitted out, it didn't attack turn 2/3, and 2) they have more defensive resources or can simply pass blocks more easily.

There is another 'big' reason I find Shan and Sieg, or Earth decks in particular, fall in slightly lower categories than their fire counterparts... And this is a low block issue. Quite frankly, yes Shan has a few and Sieg does too, Earth has access to fewer low blocks on playable attacks, and even fewer low blocks on playable foundations. Playable = commonly used cards, yes all cards are playable it just takes practice and certain decks for them to see use.

Oh, and Shan is lower than Sieg becuase of the quicker damage pump on Sieg plain and simple, and Shan's abilities largely coming down to dealing damage (massing momentum). Oddly Shan has relatively low life for a 6 hs character as well... But, all things considered - in the short run, any given game/match - d can and will beat c, and e can and will beat d and sometimes c. This is simply tier ranking, a mental exercise in trying to determine the long run abilities and resources characters have to tip the scales and win more often than not.

- dut

MarcoPulleaux said:

Also, Shinji is mad becuase you didn't refer to him by his more well known, and well respected, nickname - Stingi.

... yes yes, I can eat his D too... lol

- dut

Love the work and the detail.

One thing that I have to question:

JJ = D Class because of his symbols.

Order = Bottom of Food Chain because everything it does, basically has fire.

JJ, doesn't have fire, but does have order.

7 HS character, that can basically play fire + cursed blood. Reduces horrific amounts of damage, which then combos with all of Hilde's crap, and some how combos really well with all of astrid's stuff.

Granted the deck that I've got JJ fronting (for diversity as much as anything else) sides into Astrid or Hilde for equal amounts of win. (Running 4x each of characters for blocks/ six checks)

With a built in Tag Along - Are we sure that's D class for characters?

If King and Astrid are ahead of other characters by any sort of gap, it makes me wonder why I 2-0'd both of them in Top 8 at SAS. I suppose it must have been luck, since clearly Fire Hata is inferior to both. Right?

Which once again proves my point that these Tier rankings are completely worthless. And again, ROTBI, read carefully what I wrote, I did not attack the OP at all, merely gave my opinion on the matter.

Have fun with this debate y'all, let me know when you've decided what tier everyone is so I may adjust my tournament performance accordingly. I'll make sure to lose to who I'm supposed to from now on.

@Shinji: Don't get your buns in a twist, bro; the only reason I'm calling you out is because you're the only other person who bothers to rank things.

@dutpotd: Wow, bro, thanks for all that info. Let me get to analyzing it...

I've seen mass aggro pound out the King and Queen in my meta pretty often, as you so excellently pointed out, since they're usually not built with defensive pieces in mind, and they will sometimes find themselves caught without a particular zone of blocks while their opponent is wailing away at that particular zone.

I've seen the problem that you have with Siegfried* and Yi Shan** , which is less options when it comes to when you get to attack, because you may find yourself rushing in a non-optimal situation. But I believe that offense dominates this meta, because even though I sometimes find myself rushing a fully ready opponent, I have been able to get wins in a consistent fashion. The reason why is that I believe that your ability to defend is mostly defined by what you have in hand, then followed by your staging area, so I am not intimidated by their defensive pieces in play. Secondly, Stun is the keyword to have in these decks. It is what makes them go, and I willl tell you that I would completely agree with your tier ranking... if my decks were not packed to the gills with Stun attacks to deal with enemy staging areas. I guess we can agree to disagree on that one, because I haven't seen Nina and ZD fend off attacks as well as you say they can (though I admit, I don't have the $$$ to outfit them with playsets of Launcher - Breaker and PotM , so maybe that's why I think they can't kill).

In other words, sometimes being a pressure fighter (constantly pounding on your opponent and forcing him to depend on the luck of his draw or take the damage and then try to respond, both of which favor you) can work out to your advantage, just as long as your opponent isn't able to draw significantly more than you can. I think it's an underrated strategy, and that's why I rank it where I do. The reason why I think Siegfried* and Yi Shan** are roughly equal lies more in the strength of their support more than the character cards themselves. Yi Shan** is undeniably a step slower than Siegfried* , but he is more well-rounded, as his support features better pump, damage reduction, and recursion ability that doubles as an insurance policy of sorts for your face-up momentum (I swear by Pendant of the Western Paradise ; I believe it can turn the tide against momentum hate in a massive way). As a matter of fact, I feel that the only pieces of support that I would reliably use from Siegfried* are Torn Hero (duh) and Hilt Impact , which in my mind gives the edge to Yi Shan** . And by the gods, yes, we need more low blocks in Earth !

As far as resource symbols go, I'll probably tweak my list to be more in accordance with yours, because I think you make some good points.

@Antigoth: It's actually C Tie r , but I explicitly stated I don't own the character (and I probably won't until I get to the States after I graduate college in May), so if you have any good decks and tech discussions you can enlighten me with, I will raise his ranking. I have no problem with changing my mind, especially when all I can do with that particular character is speculate...

@VikramS: See, this is the point where I have to disregard all the awesome things I believe you've done for the game and label you a troll for the attitude and content of your last post. As a matter of fact, I placed James Hata** at the highest ranking, especially against Astrid , because he can keep up with her draw, and can always have a chance to completely block her attacks, so I think he has as good a shot as anyone to beat her. If you don't have anything constructive to say, maybe you should refrain from commenting altogether, hmm?

Wow, I couldn't have done a better job of pissing off everyone in the community if I went personally to their house and started insulting their mothers.

This thread rules.

Hey vickam,

this may be useless to you, but for noobs like us, it helps our deckbuilding by helping us guessing the meta. Don't belittle other people's efforts for the game.

if your post causes a person to stop writing stuff for the community, it is a loss to us. Maybe not you, but we want to read it.

To any others,

Please note that your efforts are not down the drain. People are reading and thinking about it, even if we don't post replies

For this I would personally would rather rank symbols in tiers over characters themselves. Partially because symbols determine the playstyle and the card pool available to the given character. Plus a character can have bonkerz abilities and if it doesnt have a right symbol its essentially cast aside until its symbols get more support.

I think your symbol tiers are pretty spot on. Id personally say that Fire is a tier of its own though. It has so much card draw, damage pump and reduc as opposed to other symbols its ridiculous. Its easily becoming the most love/hate symbol this block much like Void and Evil were for past blocks.

As for characters... I honestly believe that any of the first 3 tiers can win any given match, and matchups play a factor more then ever. Each character has a glaring weakness except in my eyes Astrid and King. Thats why I would rank them amongst the top slightly higher then the rest. Being able to outdraw and throw reverse pommels shuts characters such as Heihachi, Steve and Bryan Fury down. King is just dumb in that he is able to build, attack with path for free every turn. The longer a game goes the better it plays into his hand cuz of the chip damage. King can play both the aggro game and a long game.

For the rest of the characters I think it really comes down to the pilot of the deck. Like I think Duts Hilde deck is a force to be rekon with as opposed if I were to pilot that deck. And Vik piloting Hatta is better then if some other player plays it.

Obviously these characters are very good and can win anyday. But seriously King and Astrid are so solid in this format as characters that a total noob can pick them up and win 50% of games.