Guess it's no different from me by myself having to carry what I carry for duck hunting. I do miss a lot, but 200 rounds? How many boys do you have? And no it's not a shot at their abilities, I am very happy to hear you take your boys out.

Thank you for a Great question.

I have 3 Boys... And I tend to over prepare.

The chart does say broken tool or melee weapon, but the section on Despairs also says there is no fixed absolute for their interpretation. That's why I think Spare Clip should be more open ended and less specific.

Same could happen with a carried reload.

You lost me there.

If I don't have the talent, but have the reload, and roll the despair, I could still end up with a damaged weapon.

Sure, but that's why I think it should be randomized and the talent should be better. Could probably limit the talent to flip a DP, or once an encounter, or once per session, whatever works, but it lets you ignore the Despair totally. If the Despair result is random, then an extra reload might suffice when 'out of ammo' comes up, if it's another result like broken weapon, then you go ahead and 'pull the trigger' on the talent and use that.

Guess it's no different from me by myself having to carry what I carry for duck hunting. I do miss a lot, but 200 rounds? How many boys do you have? And no it's not a shot at their abilities, I am very happy to hear you take your boys out.

Thank you for a Great question.

I have 3 Boys... And I tend to over prepare.

I know that feeling, that's why it's called huntin and not gettin or shoppin.

The chart does say broken tool or melee weapon, but the section on Despairs also says there is no fixed absolute for their interpretation. That's why I think Spare Clip should be more open ended and less specific.

Same could happen with a carried reload.

You lost me there.

If I don't have the talent, but have the reload, and roll the despair, I could still end up with a damaged weapon.

Okay right gotcha... If the GM goes with something other than your out of ammo..

Though, in this case, Why would a GM ever go with "your out of ammo"?

Not talking about just the talent...

I mean Even if the players are carrying who cares how many reloads...

The chart does say broken tool or melee weapon, but the section on Despairs also says there is no fixed absolute for their interpretation. That's why I think Spare Clip should be more open ended and less specific.

Same could happen with a carried reload.

You lost me there.

If I don't have the talent, but have the reload, and roll the despair, I could still end up with a damaged weapon.

Sure, but that's why I think it should be randomized and the talent should be better. Could probably limit the talent to flip a DP, or once an encounter, or once per session, whatever works, but it lets you ignore the Despair totally. If the Despair result is random, then an extra reload might suffice. If 'out of ammo' comes up, if it's another result like broken weapon then you go ahead and 'pull the trigger' on the talent and use that.

I can see that, I know my GM is waiting to bust my blaster rifle, but hey it's his fault for forcing us to min/max, I hate it, but that's what I had to do to survive with a fighting chance.

The chart does say broken tool or melee weapon, but the section on Despairs also says there is no fixed absolute for their interpretation. That's why I think Spare Clip should be more open ended and less specific.

Same could happen with a carried reload.

You lost me there.

If I don't have the talent, but have the reload, and roll the despair, I could still end up with a damaged weapon.

Okay right gotcha... If the GM goes with something other than your out of ammo..

Though, in this case, Why would a GM ever go with "your out of ammo"?

Not talking about just the talent...

I mean Even if the players are carrying who cares how many reloads...

Hence the pointlessness to the Talent we are talking about. If the GM can just select a different bad result, why bother spending the xp on something that won't ever come up. That's HD's point.

On my side of things, I wouldn't change the talent.. I just wouldn't "break" weapon...

I got Plenty of similar opportunity to do that on the Opposite side when shooting At the Pcs...

Shoot to destroy, Get a triumph on the attack.. Destroy a piece of Held (I also consider Worn items to be held ) Damaged or destroyed.

The chart does say broken tool or melee weapon, but the section on Despairs also says there is no fixed absolute for their interpretation. That's why I think Spare Clip should be more open ended and less specific.

Same could happen with a carried reload.

You lost me there.

If I don't have the talent, but have the reload, and roll the despair, I could still end up with a damaged weapon.

Okay right gotcha... If the GM goes with something other than your out of ammo..

Though, in this case, Why would a GM ever go with "your out of ammo"?

Not talking about just the talent...

I mean Even if the players are carrying who cares how many reloads...

Hence the pointlessness to the Talent we are talking about. If the GM can just select a different bad result, why bother spending the xp on something that won't ever come up. That's HD's point.

Never looked at it like that, I see the need for randomness or a DP for that talent to work, but it's also up to the GM not to be "against" the player all the time like that. If the talent isn't being abused, then the GM shouldn't bust the weapon. And yes, I saw a session where 2 people rolled a despair on the same round having to reload, one of those players was me and it was like the 3rd session we had ever played, but now the skills have skyrocketed and the despairs are rolled only when the dice are cold.It's still a cold blooded GM that would break the weapon just cause you have a spare clip talent.

That was One thing I thought was off about th whole reload thing and needing a despair.

At low experinced... starting values.. you are hardly likely to see a despair ever..... but the higher in experience you go... and the more difficult things get... the more likely you would be to see a despair happen... so gear gets worse and Ammo burns out faster the More experienced you are?

Some how that seems backwards. at least for the breaking thing..

All things Being equal.... Gear and Amm o should break/run out about the same amount of time.

Like I said, the players in the game I am in had to min/max due to the GM having tougher baddies to fight, so we were actually rolling opposed rolls at the time. We were all learning and we won that fight so he has only laid off of us a little except for plot.

Whatever, 200 rounds of 270 win for deer hunting...LMAO. Bye

okay I'l break what i said this once... only because there doesn't appear to be an ignore feature to put you on.

Oh, I'm pretty sure there is an ignore feature.

LOl

If a GM is selecting a different result because you have a talet to deal with it...that is a douchebag move. A gm should be making you feel awesome for your choices. Not looking for ways to screw a player over.

yet sadly a viable option per rules as writen

If a GM is selecting a different result because you have a talet to deal with it...that is a douchebag move. A gm should be making you feel awesome for your choices. Not looking for ways to screw a player over.

Agreed, but by the same token they also need to challenge or it's just boring to always assume success. That's why I randomize and we leave it to the gods at my table.

If a GM is selecting a different result because you have a talet to deal with it...that is a douchebag move. A gm should be making you feel awesome for your choices. Not looking for ways to screw a player over.

Agreed, but by the same token they also need to challenge or it's just boring to always assume success. That's why I randomize and we leave it to the gods at my table.

Do you have a chart you use, 2P, of different choices/results? I would like to check it out.

As a GM, if I state, "you run out of ammo" when you've rolled a Despair, I would never change that to something else if you then defend with "I have the Spare Clip Talent!" I've already made my decision of how the Despair was going to affect you.

I just do Out of Ammo, Upgrade the next check, Weapon is broken so one step in the Minor, Moderate, Major scale for damaged gear, and finally I just made a Weapon Malfunction option that requires a Maneuver to clear it, a jam, overheated, etc.

So roll a D4 and then there is no 'mean ol GM' issue. It doesn't solve the Spare Clip issue, but it levels the play field on Despairs I think.

SOOO many logical issues with the encumbrance rules could be fixed if you simply made certain items, like grenades, hold-out blasters, reloads, and so on 1/2 encumbrance (with a half in your total rounding up). This is a pretty simple fix.

That being said, if I were to go back and do it again, I'd adjust the encumbrance a bit on most weapons up or down a notch. The armor is usually spot on, I think, as is most of the other equipment.

A lot of encumbrance makes sense for items in you hands. But not for items in your utility belt or pack.

Maybe switch things around. Like a utility belt can hold x number of 1 enc. Or less items. Packs can hold x number 4 enc or less items up to a total of your enc or something...

I'd agree with the random thing instead of defaulting to "out of ammo" but my players would complain that they've prepared for the 'by the book' results of that possibility and I've goe around their preparation by having something else happen. To some degree, I'd see their point and save the nastier result for a nastier roll.

It isn't an argument we've had to get into.. but after gaming with the same group for close to 30 years (except the n00b... he joined us 14 years ago), I tend to see things coming.

Ugh, I just read the Power Pack entry, and it's just... sloppy. Ignoring a result is not the same as spending a maneuver to deal with the result, so to me those two adjacent sentences are basically contradictory. I'd interpret the latter (Maneuver to reactivate an "out-of-ammo" weapon) and ignore the former (Ignore out-of-ammo result on a despair). The other weird thing is that it doesn't say that the item is a one-use item a la the stimpack. At 25 credits, it seems obvious (at least to me) its a one-shot item, but I've been wrong about interpreting implicit intent before.

I would probably re-write this item as, an "Ammo Bandolier" that has cost 200, encumbrance of 1, and allows the player to use a maneuver to reload a weapon once an encounter or something. (As an aside, I feel like this sounds familiar, like someone described it in Beta. Any and all attribution should go to the originator of the idea if this is, in fact, not an original idea).

The Spare Clip talent is listed as "passive" so it seems that you can ignore the result in that case. This (and that it doesn't require encumbrance) keeps either the power pack or the bandolier described above from treading on this talent's .

And actually, it does make sense for how an item is contained to affect it's encumbrance since the definition explicitly includes "how easy items are to carry" in it's definition. A quick example: I would rule that a bottle of beer has an encumbrance of 1, but a six pack would have an encumbrance of 2, or even 1, because of how easy it is to carry. This is basically how the backpack and utility belt reduce encumbrance to begin with.

Addendum #1: The point of the Encumbrance system is to simplify tracking what can be carried. IMO, introducing fractional encumbrance (especially as low as 1/20) doesn't really serve that purpose.

Addendum #2: Another point that seems sloppy is that explicitly calling out despair as a trigger for the reload item and Spare Clip talent seem to leave the HBP in a weird limbo, since the out-of-ammo effect can be triggered on 3 Threats there, too.

Just another point of view on the question of how 'encumbering' extra reloads/power packs are:

Note, that the names are *plural*. Every character probably carries *some* reloads/spare power packs on their person, assuming they carry one or more weapons that require them. No blaster or slug thrower has unlimited ammunition or shot capacity, so you're going to be swapping in fresh ammo anyway. (Remember, rounds are approximately a minute long in this system, you're not limited to squeezing off a single shot in that time, you just resolve all those shots as a single attack roll.)

The person who carries *extra* reloads, carries quite a bit more than normal, and statistically will *never* run out of ammunition on his person. (If he ever does, a normal person would have *long* since been reduced to using their weapon as a club.)

Here's a real-world story of such a person: https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

For those not familiar with firearms, a normal, full-size, service pistol typically comes with 12-17 round magazines, depending on the caliber. An officer *typically* carries 3 magazines (one in the gun, two on his belt), with a round in the chamber. That means 37-52 rounds. That's *not* 'extra reloads', that's standard. (A civilian carrying concealed will often carry a similar number of magazines, though the total capacity may be significantly less, depending on the capacity of those magazines, ranging from 6-17+, depending on what they carry, though some carry less under the rationale that their primary concern, should they end up needing to defend their lives, is getting the heck *out* of said situation as fast as possible, or that they are significantly less likely to be facing multiple determined attackers.)

Also note that in the approximately 1-minute exchange described in the linked article, nearly 60 rounds of ammunition were expended between just *two* people. That's *one* round of combat in EotE.

After skimming through several pages I was going to make a long post, but the last one above (Voice) covered most of what I was going to say.

This is a narrative game with long rounds. This isn't Twilight 2000 where you track everything in 10 second rounds down to each bullet carried and fired. Note the name "Extra Reloads". It isn't called just "Reloads". Everyone carries a reload. This guy carries EXTRA Reloads. Everyone reloads between combat or even during non-essential moments such as taking a Maneuver to run down a hallway while swapping out magazines. Those little details aren't tracked in this narrative system. But, the guy with Extra Reloads has a few extra for every weapon he carries. It isn't just one magazine for his pistol, it's a couple extra for it, a couple for his carbine, and one for his vibroblade in case he runs out of ammo in a pivotal moment per a dice roll. 1 Encumbrance could be considered light for that. It's very simplified though so you don't have to track how many extra magazines you have for each weapon you are carrying. Just mark Extra Reloads and you've got it covered for 1 Encumbrance. Yes if you had chosen to carry only one extra magazine for one weapon that 1 Encumbrance is steep, but try to consider it an average since the guy next to you might be carrying multiple extra magazines for 3 weapons. It's a generalized concept for a narrative system. If you want it very granular you are going to need to find a different system or start making house rules tracking all extra magazines at 0.25 Encumbrance each by weapon type and maybe even add how many shots per magazine and keep track of that too! That isn't this system.

Extra Reloads Encumbrance 0? Ok I will be carrying 10 Extra Reloads for each of my 4 weapons with no extra weight cost! That's broken......

Encumbrance 1 but you need one set for EACH weapon you carry? Oh crap that's 4 Encumbrance just for extra mags. Hmm, that's as much as an extra Battle Rifle or two sets of Padded Armor in my backpack. That's broken......

Generalize Encumbrance 1 covering all extra reloads for weapons you happen to be carrying works fine for me.

Sorry, lied, turned out long.

After skimming through several pages I was going to make a long post, but the last one above (Voice) covered most of what I was going to say.

This is a narrative game with long rounds. This isn't Twilight 2000 where you track everything in 10 second rounds down to each bullet carried and fired. Note the name "Extra Reloads". It isn't called just "Reloads". Everyone carries a reload. This guy carries EXTRA Reloads. Everyone reloads between combat or even during non-essential moments such as taking a Maneuver to run down a hallway while swapping out magazines. Those little details aren't tracked in this narrative system. But, the guy with Extra Reloads has a few extra for every weapon he carries. It isn't just one magazine for his pistol, it's a couple extra for it, a couple for his carbine, and one for his vibroblade in case he runs out of ammo in a pivotal moment per a dice roll. 1 Encumbrance could be considered light for that. It's very simplified though so you don't have to track how many extra magazines you have for each weapon you are carrying. Just mark Extra Reloads and you've got it covered for 1 Encumbrance. Yes if you had chosen to carry only one extra magazine for one weapon that 1 Encumbrance is steep, but try to consider it an average since the guy next to you might be carrying multiple extra magazines for 3 weapons. It's a generalized concept for a narrative system. If you want it very granular you are going to need to find a different system or start making house rules tracking all extra magazines at 0.25 Encumbrance each by weapon type and maybe even add how many shots per magazine and keep track of that too! That isn't this system.

Extra Reloads Encumbrance 0? Ok I will be carrying 10 Extra Reloads for each of my 4 weapons with no extra weight cost! That's broken......

Encumbrance 1 but you need one set for EACH weapon you carry? Oh crap that's 4 Encumbrance just for extra mags. Hmm, that's as much as an extra Battle Rifle or two sets of Padded Armor in my backpack. That's broken......

Generalize Encumbrance 1 covering all extra reloads for weapons you happen to be carrying works fine for me.

Sorry, lied, turned out long.

I'm curious, in your view based on what you've written here, is the "Extra Reloads" item expendable or reusable? i.e. when you use this item to counteract an out-of-ammo effect, is it destroyed or can it be used again at a later time?

I'm curious, in your view based on what you've written here, is the "Extra Reloads" item expendable or reusable? i.e. when you use this item to counteract an out-of-ammo effect, is it destroyed or can it be used again at a later time?

Reloadable. Not during battle, but when the PCs would have a source to reload their "magazines". At my table it costs 10 credits to do this instead of the full 25 credits for the Extra Reloads since you aren't buying the magazines again just the bullets, tibanna gas, etc. In my opinion this also makes it simpler when tracking the PCs Encumbrance. You don't have to consider your PC just dropped 1 Encumbrance point since he used an Extra Reload - He still has the empty clips, magazines, etc unless he wants to dispose of them and buy new again later.