In the ECRB a lot of Pistols are ENC 1

But a reload/recharge pack is also ENC !

Is this right? or was there an errata on this..

Seems strange, as for the most part, it seems ENC value is a 1 to 1 correlation an Item with ENC 2 is = 2 items with ENC 1

Encumbrance is not just weight or mass, but also shape and general awkwardness-level of the item in question. Encumbrance is the answer to the question, "on an exponential scale, how hard is the item to carry around?" Kinda like how numbers work, in general, in this game. They are an abstraction for tons of information, to make things easier for you to track.

So a power pack and a blaster pistol, separately, are a total Encumbrance of 2. But when fit together, it's only 1 Encumbrance, because they are easier to carry & handle that way.

Not to mention, you are likely to carry an additional reload in a utility belt or pack of some kind, which gives encumbrance reduction.

Reloads shouldn't be viewed as magazines either. They're used to correct an Out of Ammo scenario which functionally is more like a weapon malfunction, so a Blaster reload is probably like carrying an extra piece of the weapon.

Reloads shouldn't be viewed as magazines either. They're used to correct an Out of Ammo scenario which functionally is more like a weapon malfunction, so a Blaster reload is probably like carrying an extra piece of the weapon.

For some pistols, that might be the case, but "power packs" are definitely a thing in the Star Wars universe, and they are indeed akin to magazines in some instances, though they hold many more "shots" than a real-world gun magazine normally would

Reloads shouldn't be viewed as magazines either.

Of course they should be viewed that way!

That is the perfect way to conceptualize it.

A loaded pistol and an unloaded pistol are almost identical in terms of weight/volume/mass. Now, before someone gets "realistic" about firearms: Yes, I understand that a loaded weapon weighs slightly more than an unloaded one, but the thing is designed to have a magazine in it. Putting one in doesn't suddenly make the pistol significantly more difficult to carry around. However, when you separate the pistol and magazine you now have two items to manage instead of one.

I don't actually care about arguments against how I view it. I happen to agree with the SD that it having a 1 ENC means it's more than a simple extra magazine as that would be on par with a comlink or stimpack imo and be a 0 ENC item.

A weapon magazine is an item that is easily wielded inherently so that it can be replaced easily and not take up room. The way they are used in this game for both the rare occurrence, and being billed 1 ENC, means there is more to it than a simple extra mag as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks, I understand the Point of views that have been presented....

I even understand how 2P51 is attempting to make sense out of something that, clearly by description, is only an Ammo patch or Blaster charge.

I personally am of the opinion that if all it represents is an ammo pack/charge... for a pistol, shouldn't weigh that much/take up that much space. Like a com link.

For an Rifle or other heavy weapons? This might be different and 1 ENC might make more sense.

I think for my own games, I shall have them notated separately.. Pistol Reloads will be 1/20 enc. While heavy weapons will be 1 ENC

The thing is reloads are not specific. A pistol powerpack would be way smaller than a rifles powerpack. But this game does not have that granularity.

I don't actually care about arguments against how I view it. I happen to agree with the SD that it having a 1 ENC means it's more than a simple extra magazine as that would be on par with a comlink or stimpack imo and be a 0 ENC item.

A weapon magazine is an item that is easily wielded inherently so that it can be replaced easily and not take up room. The way they are used in this game for both the rare occurrence, and being billed 1 ENC, means there is more to it than a simple extra mag as far as I'm concerned.

The text defining "Extra Reload/Power Pack" is pretty clear on what they are, so I wasn't really positing an argument. It's just what it is. The OP question was a rules question, so the answers provided are of best service when they take the rules into consideration.*

I take the Encumbrance to mean that power packs are exceptionally heavy for their size, and thus they are slightly more difficult to handle than a comlink or stimpack. After all, they are heavy-duty packs containing compressed tibanna gas. In my mind, they are like little tiny propane tanks.

It could be also a simple mechanical balance issue, since there are certain rules regarding Encumbrance 0 items that wouldn't do well if they were allowed to apply to power packs. For example, I think allowing them to be drawn from a military pouch is a little much.

*We are of course free to reflavor or reinterpret or change the stats of items, as 2P51 and SnowDragon are proposing. Or even change up the stats depending on the item in question, as can be inferred from Daeglan's above post. Lack of granularity in the Core Rules is to the benefit of situational rulings. For me, it's easiest and most simple to start with what is defined in the rules and then go from there, in whatever direction the GM feels is most appropriate.

Current modern weapon magazines that aren't in carriers designed for them are somewhat cumbersome to handle. They're not always oriented the way they should be to match up properly with the weapon, they tend to bounce around oddly and they can occasionally slip rounds. All of these issues are remedied with proper carriers/harnesses, but they add to the burden of the magazine.

In the context of the SW universe, apart from some military weapons, I haven't seen anyone slap a new mag into a weapon. What I -have- seen is "power packs" and "charging equipment". This leads me to believe that weapon reloads are really nothing more than a powerful capacitor with a full charge. This would reload a weapon by connecting the two poles to the weapon and discharging its energy.

There's actually some mention made of the oddities of reloading/recharging weapons in the description of one of the holdout blasters, but as I'm AFB at the moment, I can't look up the reference.

Current modern weapon magazines that aren't in carriers designed for them are somewhat cumbersome to handle. They're not always oriented the way they should be to match up properly with the weapon, they tend to bounce around oddly and they can occasionally slip rounds. All of these issues are remedied with proper carriers/harnesses, but they add to the burden of the magazine.

In the context of the SW universe, apart from some military weapons, I haven't seen anyone slap a new mag into a weapon. What I -have- seen is "power packs" and "charging equipment". This leads me to believe that weapon reloads are really nothing more than a powerful capacitor with a full charge. This would reload a weapon by connecting the two poles to the weapon and discharging its energy.

There's actually some mention made of the oddities of reloading/recharging weapons in the description of one of the holdout blasters, but as I'm AFB at the moment, I can't look up the reference.

Where an item is kept has nothing to do with its inherent encumbrance.

Current modern weapon magazines that aren't in carriers designed for them are somewhat cumbersome to handle. They're not always oriented the way they should be to match up properly with the weapon, they tend to bounce around oddly and they can occasionally slip rounds. All of these issues are remedied with proper carriers/harnesses, but they add to the burden of the magazine.

In the context of the SW universe, apart from some military weapons, I haven't seen anyone slap a new mag into a weapon. What I -have- seen is "power packs" and "charging equipment". This leads me to believe that weapon reloads are really nothing more than a powerful capacitor with a full charge. This would reload a weapon by connecting the two poles to the weapon and discharging its energy.

There's actually some mention made of the oddities of reloading/recharging weapons in the description of one of the holdout blasters, but as I'm AFB at the moment, I can't look up the reference.

Where an item is kept has nothing to do with its inherent encumbrance.

p102 Suns of Fortune. Re: Whiskey. Ref: Bottle vs. Case.

In the ECRB a lot of Pistols are ENC 1

But a reload/recharge pack is also ENC !

Is this right? or was there an errata on this..

Seems strange, as for the most part, it seems ENC value is a 1 to 1 correlation an Item with ENC 2 is = 2 items with ENC 1

It's got the same ENC as a grenade. You can decide for yourself it's appearance. Something that is considered as bulky as a grenade isn't a weapon mag imo.

I feel the 1ENC is a game balance thing and nothing to do with actual item.

The developers probably made a couple of choices:

Do we want more than 1 type of reload? No.

Do we ant a reload to be limited to a single use? Yes

How many do we think a PC should be able to carry, 1, 5 or 20? 5

Therefore what's the ENC? 1 Enc

Do we want a talent that ignores this items Enc? Of course!

Later (or earlier) they asked the question how small is the smallest pistols? 1 Enc

So if yo have the cash to spare it's just as easy and way COOLER to be festooned with pistols just like these guy where http://smg.photobucket.com/user/zarkthedamned/media/Miniatures/Dogs%20of%20War/27063d1b.jpg.html

Just take the spare clip talent and all is good, if you start messing with the enc on the spare power pack it takes away the specialness of said talent, causing minor game imbalance.

Considering "when" you are allowed to swap out a spare clip, and the fact that the talent "Spare clip" takes no maneuvers, just keeps you from running out of ammo during an encounter, Makes sure this won't diminish the specialness of of the talent at all.

and you are talking about dropping enc on the actual spares, so guess what you have degraded the talent.

Nope. The talent has nothing to do with How many you have on you. In fact, the need to swap reloads doesn't come up all that often. But when it does, It requires the Player to spend a Maneuver to "reload" the weapon.

He talent Negates the Need to spend that maneuver.

Regardless of whether you have 1, 2 5 or 20 reloads on you, you don't have to spend that maneuver to reload your weapon. That is what Spare clip does.

It states Char does not run out of ammo, therefor you don't have to worry about a despair unless you have limited ammo, so that means you do not have to carry a reload. Edge pg 143.

Therefore you minimized the talent by altering enc on a reload or spare clip.

SPARE CLIP
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
Trees: Gadgeteer, Trader
The character does not run out of ammo on a ff/J. Items
with Limited Ammo quality run out of ammo as normal.

Edit, What part of does not run out is so hard to understand?

EotE pg 181

EXTRA RELOADS/POWER PACKS
Technology runs on power, and while most devices have
internal power sources, these either run out or need
augmentation Energy cells are small battery disks that
can keep most hand-held devices going for a while longer,
while power packs are larger versions suitable for
blasters and other high-demand gear. Extra reloads allow
characters to ignore an "out of ammo" ff{J result
with a ranged weapon. By spending a maneuver, they
may reload their weapons and get back in the fight.
Models Include: Numerous Variants.

you also need to get the reload out of storage, so 2 maneuvers are required, but thats where quick draw comes in as well. i think its good that they cost 1 ENC to carry, otherwise its too easy to only have that 1-2 maneuver penalty, and 1 character could carry all the reloads for the group. its the cleanest way to limit the number of reloads a PC has

Oh I understand it, I just think you under estimate it..

Not having to Buy reloads? + not hving to spend a Maneuver +

Others being able to carry a little more Ammo for Pistols? Not so much a problem.

You asked about enc, got answers, weren't satisfied so you house ruled. People told you why you shouldn't, now you're upset? Your table, your rules, play it how you gonna play it, we just pointed out an answer to your question, you house ruled and we pointed out the break. Is it a major break? Nope, but it wouldn't make me happy to save up 20 xp to get that talent when you spend 25 credits for reloads, and cut the enc for them, so now why take the talent?

Upset?

Me thinks you read in to much my friend LOl.

I don't get that worked up about discussions..

Perhaps you are taking it to much to heart :-)