Except the imperial army would take the average students the storm trooper Corp are the elite forces.

I don't understand the love people seem to have for Chopper. He just seems like a really sh*tty comic relief character.

Bingo. The Imperial forces refused to even consider that a species as primitive technologically as the Ewoks could be a threat so they took no precautions against the possibility of the Ewoks being a threat and they paid for that mistake to the fullest.

I just like to imagine that throughout that battle, there are Rambo-like scenes taking place offscreen of Ewoks emerging from a bundle of vines to slit stormtrooper's throats.

I don't understand the love people seem to have for Chopper. He just seems like a really sh*tty comic relief character.

Bingo. The Imperial forces refused to even consider that a species as primitive technologically as the Ewoks could be a threat so they took no precautions against the possibility of the Ewoks being a threat and they paid for that mistake to the fullest.

I just like to imagine that throughout that battle, there are Rambo-like scenes taking place offscreen of Ewoks emerging from a bundle of vines to slit stormtrooper's throats.

Chopper is what R2-D2 would have liked to be. I love the episode with Lando and him. He is a comic relief character for the most part, but he is not a failed one like Jar-Jar.

I don't understand the love people seem to have for Chopper. He just seems like a really sh*tty comic relief character.

Bingo. The Imperial forces refused to even consider that a species as primitive technologically as the Ewoks could be a threat so they took no precautions against the possibility of the Ewoks being a threat and they paid for that mistake to the fullest.

I just like to imagine that throughout that battle, there are Rambo-like scenes taking place offscreen of Ewoks emerging from a bundle of vines to slit stormtrooper's throats.

Chopper is what R2-D2 would have liked to be. I love the episode with Lando and him. He is a comic relief character for the most part, but he is not a failed one like Jar-Jar.

I believe the writers/creators of Rebels said something along these lines:

"The idea with Chopper is that R2-D2 was the loyal family dog. Chopper, however, is a cat."

"The idea with Chopper is that R2-D2 was the loyal family dog. Chopper, however, is a cat."

I don't understand the love people seem to have for Chopper. He just seems like a really sh*tty comic relief character.

In a dialogue-heavy show, he provides some nice slapstick that's not based on dialogue.

Plus, his droidicidal tendencies are so over-the-line they become funny.

I don't understand the love people seem to have for Chopper. He just seems like a really sh*tty comic relief character.

There are a LOT of terrible, utterly terrible comic relief characters. Chopper, were he entirely one, would be one of the better ones.

I can't recall any other comic relief characters - other than perhaps the two Imperial lackwit stooges who aren't necessarily a problem anymore if you get my meaning

Yeah, Darth Vader reflects a laser bolt directly into Sabine's face. It knocks her off her feat.

Moments later, she takes off her helmet and is perfectly fine.

Mandalorian armor.

They don't make visors out of it. With the blast shield down she can't see anything.

The shot didn't hit her in the visor. It hit the helmet above her right eye. You can see the scorch marks from the reflected shots on her breastplate and helmet after they got away.

We give Chopper love, so he doesn't kill us.

Also, they actually made armor effective in the show. Stormtroopers actually survive shots. Feel bad for the one trooper who Kallus kicked off the platform on Kessel.

"First time fighting a Jedi sir?"

I lol'ed.

As for Endor the Ewok's had several advantages over the Empire. Pretty much the only edge the Empire had was more advanced equipment and the AT-STs. Numbers, knowledge of terrain, battlefield prep all of these are areas where the Ewoks were superior to the Imperial forces. And the methods the Ewok's used to defeat the AT-STs were tested and proven scientifically feasible if memory serves. And its not like the Ewoks didn't take losses during the battle.

I'm not sure we can even count the AT-STs as an advantage at Endor: the sort of broken terrain* and underfoot tangles you'd see in the Redwood forest are _terrible_ for anything with a high center of gravity and 2 legs for amubulation.

I'm honestly surprised it took so long for the Ewoks to drop from the trees that they call home, onto the AT-STs, and to straight murder the Troopers inside.

Which points out another Ewok advantage: they are an arboreal species fighting in a Forrest. The height advantage that gives them nullifies darned near any advantage the Imperials should have had.

The Imperials ought to have cleared the treeline in at least a 1 mile radius from their Endor base. It would have given them a nice, wide sightline, room for the AT-STs to work, and even an area in which TIEs or Lambdas could be used for supporting fire.

Overconfidence was the Emperor's undoing.

*Yeah, I know what AT stands for. I consider that a marketing name like "Fresh Atlantic salmon" when eating near the Pacific ocean.

The Stormtroopers' HUDs were probably also configured for rebel scum with all their attendant electronic signature, metal etc. They did not expect armed local wildlife. Armies are always equipped to fight the last war they fought, not the current one. (So blasters that can't aim for crap because the average clanker stands in the open and walks slowly and armour which is only camofluaged in the ultraviolet spectrum).

Fun fact about (Star Wars) lasers too: plasma bolts will explode on contact with anything, including leaves. Whereas an FN FAL can ignore about 50m of vegetation, a standard stormie's blaster shot would dissipate after hitting one or two leaves (also the fact that they can be deflected without dissipation by a lighstabre at all probably requires a lot of skill and even then they will lose lethality - Sabine's hit was a reflected shot from her own low-calibre blaster - Han Solo's DL44 might have punched through).

AT pilots were certainly good enough to callously pick off moving camouflaged targets (Rebel and Ewok) from their own lurching platforms. And don't forget sheer bureaucracy and politics: in the real world we have the F-35 and F-22, and there was a short story about a stormtrooper who test drove an AT-AT and thought that it would be vulnerable to a cable wrapped around its legs and came up with a tactic to avoid ensnarement. He was told to shut up about it and the matter forgotten until Hoth.

(Mostly I ignore all of this and just enjoy the show - it is about lazer swords, magick and democratically elected Queens. Series like Girls und Panzer politely tell you to check disbelief at the door with Manhattan sized aircraft-carrier schools)

I'm sure on most deployments with AT-ATs they also have air support, which unfortunately was not available on Hoth since any speeders or fighters the Galactic Marines would not have been adapted to the bitterly cold and freezing conditions. Or the imperials rely on smaller walkers for anti-aircraft fire, and we didn't see a lot of the smaller moe nimble walkers in that battle for some reason.

Oh and remember the Empire still totally won that battle.

In all seriousness though, I agree with Hobo especially that heroes are defined by their villains.

The Inquisitor and Kallus make/made good villians, imo.

But two people alone can't control a planet the troops didn't need to be super elite, just competent that's all.

I think the issue comes down to the fact that a storm trooper's competence drops like a rock any time he's shooting someone with any plot armor (Leia being the curious exception in a few cases). I think the problem is that Rebels doesn't have a reliable source of likeable, relatable characters they can easily kill off the way The Clone Wars had clone troopers- Rebels is lower budget due to George Lucas not being part of the team, and individual rebels will require more time and money to create models for because you can't just slap an armor design and maybe a tatoo onto an existing base model and say, "Done" the way you can with a Clone Trooper.

Also, they actually made armor effective in the show. Stormtroopers actually survive shots.

Actually, the one thing about stormtroopers in the show that really bothers me is the armor. The frequently treat it like it isn't there at all. Many times STs are knocked out by someone punching them, or having their helmets banged together.

I can handle the cartoonish ineptitude (because, you know, it's a cartoon), but KO'ing a guy with one punch when he is wearing what has to at least be as good as a modern day motorcycle helmet pushes it too far for me.

Well, its like in the original movies, isn't it?

A stick, a small rock swung by a 3 feet high Ewok is all it takes to beat a ST.

In all seriousness though, I agree with Hobo especially that heroes are defined by their villains.

The Inquisitor and Kallus make/made good villians, imo.

But two people alone can't control a planet the troops didn't need to be super elite, just competent that's all.

I think the issue comes down to the fact that a storm trooper's competence drops like a rock any time he's shooting someone with any plot armor (Leia being the curious exception in a few cases). I think the problem is that Rebels doesn't have a reliable source of likeable, relatable characters they can easily kill off the way The Clone Wars had clone troopers- Rebels is lower budget due to George Lucas not being part of the team, and individual rebels will require more time and money to create models for because you can't just slap an armor design and maybe a tatoo onto an existing base model and say, "Done" the way you can with a Clone Trooper.

Rebels is low budget because why? Disney owns this show. That makes no sense.

Another plot armor complaint? You're a fan of the wrong property my friend (but E7 may please you )

Zeb the Lasat is pretty much a literal interpretation of the original Chewbacca design so figure he's got the strength of that walking carpet and it isn't unreasonable that he's able to crack some skulls

It has a lower budget because Clone Wars was losing money. The only reason they kept doing it was because of Lucas. See also: Lucasarts, which was finally, mercifully put out of its misery.

But two people alone can't control a planet the troops didn't need to be super elite, just competent that's all.

One of the things we see in Rebels is Stormtroopers acting in the role of police officers. We know they're evil, because they do random stop and frisks, as well as racial profiling.

Cops- even when they have the equipment of soldiers- are terrible soldiers.

I can handle the cartoonish ineptitude (because, you know, it's a cartoon), but KO'ing a guy with one punch when he is wearing what has to at least be as good as a modern day motorcycle helmet pushes it too far for me.

Any football player will tell you that's the _most_ realistic part of the armor. It's just the way the human scull works- your brain is encased in a thin layer of liquid, which is inside a bone casing. Suddenly going from moving fast to not moving at (or vice versa) all will cause the brain to slosh around in that liquid and hit the bone. Brain-on-skull impact is going to cause damage basically no matter what.

Think about it this way: boxing gloves caused brain injury to go _up_.The gloves are there to protect the hands from injury on sharp angles of faces (like noses and various bones and such). As a result, boxers can punch harder without damaging their fists. And since they're punching harder, the brain is moving more violently and therefore having more impact on the inside of the skull.

The only real way to prevent this is to create an armor or helmet of some sort which angles momentum away from the skull, and towards other parts of the body. In the case of a football player, for instance, some of the inertia could be redirected to the shoulders and torso. That might cause other problems (hello, broken shoulders!) but would at least keep the brain from being permanently damaged.

Stormtroopers don't seem to have this sort of shaping to their armor. Therefor if a strong enough person knocks the helmets of two of them together hard enough, those two people will be at least dazed if not actually unconscious. It's just basic biology and physics.

"First time fighting a Jedi sir?"

I lol'ed.

You're not the only one!

Well, its like in the original movies, isn't it?

A stick, a small rock swung by a 3 feet high Ewok is all it takes to beat a ST.

Again those same ewoks defeated the main chars so they are clearly equipped with plot armour superior to everyone else rebel or imperial.

Well, its like in the original movies, isn't it?

A stick, a small rock swung by a 3 feet high Ewok is all it takes to beat a ST.

Again those same ewoks defeated the main chars so they are clearly equipped with plot armour superior to everyone else rebel or imperial.

Well, its like in the original movies, isn't it?

A stick, a small rock swung by a 3 feet high Ewok is all it takes to beat a ST.

Again those same ewoks defeated the main chars so they are clearly equipped with plot armour superior to everyone else rebel or imperial.

Well, they caught them in a rope net. I'm pretty sure the gang could have kicked the snot out of the carebears without much in the way of losses.

I just do what others do, and visualise the ewocks being much more physical and aggressive off-screen. The ones we see on screen are like, their leaders. Fat, overweight old Ewocks who waddle around being ineffectual. The warriors are lean, mean fighting machines, like oversized baboons or chimps. Balls of furious muscle with an attitude to match. We just never get to see them.

That's totally what happened.

I can handle the cartoonish ineptitude (because, you know, it's a cartoon), but KO'ing a guy with one punch when he is wearing what has to at least be as good as a modern day motorcycle helmet pushes it too far for me.

Any football player will tell you that's the _most_ realistic part of the armor. It's just the way the human scull works- your brain is encased in a thin layer of liquid, which is inside a bone casing. Suddenly going from moving fast to not moving at (or vice versa) all will cause the brain to slosh around in that liquid and hit the bone. Brain-on-skull impact is going to cause damage basically no matter what.

Think about it this way: boxing gloves caused brain injury to go _up_.The gloves are there to protect the hands from injury on sharp angles of faces (like noses and various bones and such). As a result, boxers can punch harder without damaging their fists. And since they're punching harder, the brain is moving more violently and therefore having more impact on the inside of the skull.

The only real way to prevent this is to create an armor or helmet of some sort which angles momentum away from the skull, and towards other parts of the body. In the case of a football player, for instance, some of the inertia could be redirected to the shoulders and torso. That might cause other problems (hello, broken shoulders!) but would at least keep the brain from being permanently damaged.

Stormtroopers don't seem to have this sort of shaping to their armor. Therefor if a strong enough person knocks the helmets of two of them together hard enough, those two people will be at least dazed if not actually unconscious. It's just basic biology and physics.

Sure, fine, we know real physics and biology go straight out the window in science fiction, which can be okay for creative freedom. In the Rebels episode Fighter Flight a stormtrooper is literally doubled over and falls down by having a meiloorun fruit thrown into his abdomen by Ezra. A fruit thrown causes an armored soldier to double over, and I don't think attributing it to a Force enhanced throw by Ezra is legit at this point as he has very little ability so far. Stormtrooper armor must be made out of, i don't know, ABS plastic

Maybe Star Wars is really a larp festival in space, complete with hokey religions and plastic armor.

There are a LOT of terrible, utterly terrible comic relief characters. Chopper, were he entirely one, would be one of the better ones.

I don't see how he's not entirely comic relief. And worse, it's all the same joke.

"See, he's always getting mad and cursing people out. Only you can't tell he's cursing because he doesn't speak English! Get it!?"

Rebels is low budget because why? Disney owns this show. That makes no sense.

I'm sure the show is not actually low budget. But it LOOKS low budget because the art style is much less detailed that Clone Wars'.