Bit close to the line, some of us have kids.

One observation I have is that kids will re-watch a show they have already seen, indeed they often do and often find it hard to break out of routine.

Scooby doo has a formulaic episode theme. Also it should be added that they've mixed it up a little bit, there is one scoobie series on netflix which is actually pretty good. - as a bonus it has a cameo of the puzzle box from hellraiser.

It's evolved from the late 60s. That it's formulaic only helps with it's core audience - that being not you.

All kids are morons I was a moron at 5 I was a moron at 15 heck I was a moron at 25, it's okay part of growing up is becoming less stupid as time passes.

I'm sure we all thought ourselves super grown up as teenagers but cringe now at the stupid crap we pulled.

But let's be honest I liked gi Joe as a kid, I went back and watched it last year couldn't make it past the first few episodes and had to ask why I liked it, answer I was an easily amused simpleton like every other kid.

Kids like crap because they don't have the accumulated wisdom needed to know good from bad, that's not a bad thing it just means they have a low bar for what entertains them.

As long as they are happy, healthy and well fed your doing good as a parent.

To a lesser extent I think that's true with Star Wars. If you didn't have the nostalgia you'd probably not like it. It's why lots of adults who come to it now don't get it and think it's dumb.

Also, you're probably a moron about things today, just look at how dumb people 20 years older and younger than you are. It doesn't really matter what age you are now. That statement is universally true either way.

All kids are morons I was a moron at 5 I was a moron at 15 heck I was a moron at 25

Not me. My taste has always been impeccable.

Everyone else though? Totally.

All kids are morons I was a moron at 5 I was a moron at 15 heck I was a moron at 25, it's okay part of growing up is becoming less stupid as time passes.

I was a blithering idiot at all those ages, _and also_ at 35.

But now that I'm 37, I'm all grown up and no longer dumb.

Put me in the enjoys Rebels camp. The series hasn't shied away from the more brutal part of Imperial Occupation, the characters are interesting for the most part*, the cast generally avoids the invulnerable protagonist trap children's shows can easily fall into, and Tarkin and Vader were both competent, legitimately menacing villains as befits their status from the films.

*Zeb being the exception. I wouldn't mind so much if he were only a year or two older then Ezra, but he's supposed to have been part of an Honor Guard. Sabine comes off far more mature than he does, and she's only a year older than Ezra. Zeb is in his 30s, making him the oldest member of the cell >.>

EDIT: That being said, as I go through season 6 of Clone Wars, I am having a real problem with the casting of Tim Curry as Palpatine's (replacement) voice actor. Palpatine is very much a wolf in sheep's clothing, but Curry is not even trying and using his normal sinister voice.

I know guys who have put five, ten, fifteen years or more into the military, including elite SOF units and they're still goofballs. Not, obviously, when they're on mission, but the rest of the time? Whacky hijinks.

I've watched every episode. Didn't care for it but wanted to give it a good chance. I'm sure being a fan of the EU affected my taste a little. But I doubt it ruined me from enjoying it. What did ruin it for me was plenty.

Forcing TCW characters into the show

Really? I didn't see many Clone Wars characters. There was Ahsoka... And that was basically it.

I was also counting Anakin and considering the upcoming season 2. Which will include Rex.

Then doesn't that mean that there are a ton of TCW characters in the OT?

I start by saying "I love this thing!" If your response is that I don't or shouldn't love it... That's only going to annoy or frustrate me.

And what if other people aren't coming to the thread for the same reasons you are?

What if someone isn't coming to this thread to share love for it, but haven't seen it, and genuinely want to know whether it's actually worth their time? It's okay to have some OP created mandate that only one perspective is allowed to be discussed?

Hey, man, you're like harshing the vibes, man. You need to, like, mellow out, man.

As for Endor the Ewok's had several advantages over the Empire. Pretty much the only edge the Empire had was more advanced equipment and the AT-STs. Numbers, knowledge of terrain, battlefield prep all of these are areas where the Ewoks were superior to the Imperial forces. And the methods the Ewok's used to defeat the AT-STs were tested and proven scientifically feasible if memory serves. And its not like the Ewoks didn't take losses during the battle.

I'm not sure we can even count the AT-STs as an advantage at Endor: the sort of broken terrain* and underfoot tangles you'd see in the Redwood forest are _terrible_ for anything with a high center of gravity and 2 legs for amubulation.

I'm honestly surprised it took so long for the Ewoks to drop from the trees that they call home, onto the AT-STs, and to straight murder the Troopers inside.

Which points out another Ewok advantage: they are an arboreal species fighting in a Forrest. The height advantage that gives them nullifies darned near any advantage the Imperials should have had.

The Imperials ought to have cleared the treeline in at least a 1 mile radius from their Endor base. It would have given them a nice, wide sightline, room for the AT-STs to work, and even an area in which TIEs or Lambdas could be used for supporting fire.

Overconfidence was the Emperor's undoing.

*Yeah, I know what AT stands for. I consider that a marketing name like "Fresh Atlantic salmon" when eating near the Pacific ocean.

The Stormtroopers' HUDs were probably also configured for rebel scum with all their attendant electronic signature, metal etc. They did not expect armed local wildlife. Armies are always equipped to fight the last war they fought, not the current one. (So blasters that can't aim for crap because the average clanker stands in the open and walks slowly and armour which is only camofluaged in the ultraviolet spectrum).

Fun fact about (Star Wars) lasers too: plasma bolts will explode on contact with anything, including leaves. Whereas an FN FAL can ignore about 50m of vegetation, a standard stormie's blaster shot would dissipate after hitting one or two leaves (also the fact that they can be deflected without dissipation by a lighstabre at all probably requires a lot of skill and even then they will lose lethality - Sabine's hit was a reflected shot from her own low-calibre blaster - Han Solo's DL44 might have punched through).

AT pilots were certainly good enough to callously pick off moving camouflaged targets (Rebel and Ewok) from their own lurching platforms. And don't forget sheer bureaucracy and politics: in the real world we have the F-35 and F-22, and there was a short story about a stormtrooper who test drove an AT-AT and thought that it would be vulnerable to a cable wrapped around its legs and came up with a tactic to avoid ensnarement. He was told to shut up about it and the matter forgotten until Hoth.

(Mostly I ignore all of this and just enjoy the show - it is about lazer swords, magick and democratically elected Queens. Series like Girls und Panzer politely tell you to check disbelief at the door with Manhattan sized aircraft-carrier schools)

The story starring Daven Felth tried to explain away way too much by having one character basically shadow the heroes in ANH allowing them to escape tatooine. Also why would the empire think they could just ignore a glaring weakness like that. They only ignored the not-so-obvious weaknesses!

I'm sure on most deployments with AT-ATs they also have air support, which unfortunately was not available on Hoth since any speeders or fighters the Galactic Marines would not have been adapted to the bitterly cold and freezing conditions. Or the imperials rely on smaller walkers for anti-aircraft fire, and we didn't see a lot of the smaller moe nimble walkers in that battle for some reason.

Oh and remember the Empire still totally won that battle.

Maybe the Imperial air assets were tied up with interdicting the fleeing rebel transports and their escorts and therefore unavailable to support ground assets. Or perhaps rebel AAA was able to keep Imperial fighters and bombers from effectively supporting the ground elements. Or perhaps the reason so few rebel fighters were available to escort the fleeing transports was because the majority of the rebel fighters (perhaps including A-Wings and Y-Wings) were engaged in higher altitude operations to keep Imperial CAS at bay and force Imperial fighters to operate too far above the ground to effectively combat the rebel airspeeders. Or maybe a little bit of all of the above.

We also have no idea how low any Imperial fighters would have had to flown to stay under the shield once they hit the shielded zone. Perhaps it was low enough that the Empire felt the risk of accidents was too high.

On the subject of scooby doo: mystery inc was rad as hell.

I always hated scooby and shaggy as a child.

Me too. They were always increasingly ridiculous with each episode.

It's NEVER a real monster! It's ALWAYS a guy in a mask! Why are you still freaking out every **** time!? You should KNOW that ghost isn't a ghost by now! COMEON!!

Which is why i didn't realize the whole world hated Scrappy until I was an adult. Because to me, he always seemed to have the right idea. He just gets after them. And then one of the other characters would always stop him and drag him off. As if they were saving him from being eaten by some monster. When all they were really doing was stopping him from beating up some greedy old landowner or something.

Never liked that show, although my appreciation for its stupidity improved as I got older. But I always kinda liked Velma.

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Ermagerd, I just realised I *married* Velma.

I remember liking and watching He-Man a lot as a kid, and also the Ghostbusters (not the Real Ghosbusters).

Recently, I rewatched some episodes of those two shows...

Geez, I wanted to kick my own butt for having watched those... things...

They were plainly action figures commercials, with some of the worst animation ever, formulaic plots, and repetitive sequences even.

It is funny however, that some really good shows back then weren't particularly as popular as those others.

It's not much different nowadays. Some of the most popular kids shows are truly hideous, lazy and unimaginative.

Even when Rebels suffers from the Grievous/Dooku syndrome that Clone Wars suffered, they are not even close to be bad shows, compared to some of the most popular out there.

Thing to remember is flying in the vacuum of space and flying in arctic cold are not the same, in space you don't have to worry about ice build up for example.

I'm no expert but I know there is a valid reason they can't use starfighters against the at-at and it has to do with flying in cold weather.

Ice clogging the Sfoils and torp tubes would defo do it.

I can't remember the official reason either, though it should be mentioned that they did only have enough x-wings for two to escort each GR-75, so that could have been a factor. The Airspeeders were fighting a delaying action, not a stand.

But had the x-wing's taken on the at-at's they could one shot them with torpedoes and never of lost the shield generator.

I know, the book isards revenge has them shooting ATAT's up with LASER CANNONS (not Airspeeder blaster cannons, I know you probably know the difference but specifying it for those who do not).

I can see snow/ice jamming those torpedo launchers really, REALLY easily. I can see fallout from torps causing friendly casualties too.

I can also see the freeze jamming S-foils. (ergo stopping lasers from functioning).

Wouldn't ice on the torpedo launchers make the torpedoes detonate immediately when contacting the ice clogs? That would be kind of a stupid way to die.

Probably not, in the real world most torpedoes have range safeties on preventing early detonation in this occurrence. Hard to imagine Star Wars tech not having this.

(edit) never mind using torpedoes point blank in dogfights was a common Y-wing/Gunboat tactic I used to employ in XvT melee...

I think if the X Wings had deployed to attack the AT ATs, either the transports would have headed out un-escorted and been annihilated, or the Imperial fleet would have had time to mount a more effective blockade and they would have been annihilated. THey needed the transports to get off the ground right then, and they needed to be escorted.

I think if the X Wings had deployed to attack the AT ATs, either the transports would have headed out un-escorted and been annihilated, or the Imperial fleet would have had time to mount a more effective blockade and they would have been annihilated. THey needed the transports to get off the ground right then, and they needed to be escorted.

I think that's the general consensus, though the icy conditions on hoth would also be a mitigating factor.

Unescorted freighters are TIE Fodder.

Probably not, in the real world most torpedoes have range safeties on preventing early detonation in this occurrence. Hard to imagine Star Wars tech not having this.

(edit) never mind using torpedoes point blank in dogfights was a common Y-wing/Gunboat tactic I used to employ in XvT melee...

Cold air is surprisingly problematic. In the vacuum of space, with a fighter dishing out gigawatts of power, the biggest problem is dumping the heat. So there would be no heaters for proton torpedo tubes, laser actuators etc. They may also require a gradual warm-up from ambient to avoid things like cracking laser mirrors, getting superconductors to quench temperature etc etc handwavium.

I think if the X Wings had deployed to attack the AT ATs, either the transports would have headed out un-escorted and been annihilated, or the Imperial fleet would have had time to mount a more effective blockade and they would have been annihilated. THey needed the transports to get off the ground right then, and they needed to be escorted.

Hyperspeed-capable fighters are also **** expensive and difficult for the Rebellion to get a hold of, plus they would need them to defend their fleets later on. Why send an F-18 when a Huey Cobra can do the same job? There was no way they could prep those speeders for evac anyway, they would have been abandoned.

This is very true.

I think the reason is becasue that's how it was written.

Justification man.

Obviously that's how it was written, it's just neat to justify the hows and whys from an ingalaxy perspective.

And - for narrative gaming/DMing/co-ordinated story/canon etc it's actually quite important.

I just mean there's no need to justify it same as there's no neeed to justify tie fighters landing, it's just what happened, and since there's loads of stuff like that in OT it seems silly to be a Star Wars fan and complain about things like that in Rebels.

Devils in the details mate. I like to DM with the details, my gaming group are quite picky so it works out well.

I wasn't sold on Rebels.

Saw a couple of Clone Wars episodes and megaloathed them. Bad graphics. Bad script. Just not worth any time.

But

I did see the first episode of Rebels, on YouTube, and was more 50/50 between watchable and irritating. Certainly better than the Clone Wars episodes I saw.

I felt the same way about both Rebels and TCW, but TCW really turned it up to 11 in the later seasons. Anakin became a believable character, the clones actually had some depth to them with some even questioning how they are used as cannon fodder without free will, while others became true patriots to the ideals of the Republic! So many issues that the prequel trilogy had were cleared up, it actually saved that era for me.

I expect great things from Rebels because of this, and the first episode of season 2 already delivered some.

Because of TCW, I am now a huge fan of Clones. My biggest regret of TCW is that they never did much with the troops of Obi-Wan & Cody. And Fives dies ;_;

That said I think that Rebels is pretty good, though the later seasons of TCW will always outshine it.

Well, Rebels still has 2 Seasons coming to compete with TCW. I am pretty sure that in the end Rebels will prove to be the more coherent, logical and thus better told show of the two, mostly due to the setting....!

Because of TCW, I am now a huge fan of Clones. My biggest regret of TCW is that they never did much with the troops of Obi-Wan & Cody. And Fives dies ;_;That said I think that Rebels is pretty good, though the later seasons of TCW will always outshine it.

Side note, the Kanan comic did TCW era stuff better than TCW in my opinion, but it's only like 6 issues in.