Greetings!

I'm new to this forum, and I'm curious to hear from a few of the members who really appreciate the game. My play-group, while not large, might enjoy TI3 , but the fact that it requires three players and the time commitment is much more than the box's "3-4 hour" label causes me some concern. However, as it ranks #30 on BGG (along with #8 for Theme and #22 for Strategy), it must be doing something right. By contrast, even though Eclipse has done exceptionally well, it's far too fiddly for me and it just doesn't seem as epic.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Cheers,

Joe

It certainly is a very epic game, no 2 games will play the same.

The time the game takes really depends on the players, if your group suffers from analysis paralysis or slow play this game will take a very long time. If your group is good at planning 2 moves ahead the turns will fly by as long as you aren't playing a 6-8 player game

Setup takes a while, you may want to find a system for quicker setup if time is an issue.

I love TI3 but I've never played eclipse so I can't do a comparison.

I will say that TI3 is an easily customisable game, with lots of variant rules to choose from.

The expansions make the game a lot more enjoyable.

mulletcheese,

Thank you very much for the thoughtful answer. If memory serves, I've seen you over at my usual haunt, the Arkham Horror forum. With only two to three other gamers on a regular basis, getting the minimum three may prove difficult, and I don't know if two player variants have been successful.

Having said all that, at $60, it's a steal. Again, I greatly appreciate your comments.

Cheers

Joe

Yes, I'm a loyal arkham fan.

I've not been around that forum lately because my kids are at an age when finding time to play an epic game of AH or TI3 is very difficult.

With only 2 players the trading and political elements of the game don't work, they can still be used but you already know how the voting will go and no alliances or bargains can be made.

The real problem is only having 2 race's, there is a timer on the core game that won't function and balance is destroyed by by not having neighbours to prevent overextending and player elimination.

2 players with 2 race's each should be viable.

I thought that I remembered you!

Yes, time is fleeting ~ my daughter and I host a weekly Game Night at the house when she's with me, so we'll have three-five gamers, though there are times, when it's only the two of us. One of the drawbacks I've heard about the game is its reliance on much larger numbers of players. I'm a 25-year war-gamer, so I'll pen a few Diplomacy rules to use for those times when it's a one-on-one game. I've read some of the forum here, and especially at BGG which is far more robust...and active and a number of players have offered constructive variants.

All the best!

Cheers,

Joe

Honestly, while this game can be played with three players it really starts to shine with 4+ players and it is never recommended to schedule to play it in anything short of an entire day. The time can be reduced as you get more familiar with it, but the first games in particular (especially if you have no one at hand that knows it) will be very long-winded affairs. Luckily the game tends to suck you in so you barely notice the time slipping away. It's an unfortunate threshold to enter the game and one not helped by the absence of good and thorough videos to ease you into it.

If you have the time and the number of people into this kind of game, though, then there are few games, if any, that can compete with what Twilight Imperium does.

Cremate,

Thanks for the response. As I mentioned, I'm a long-time wargamer, but I want to have the same strategic level experience. Games like Eclipse lack the Diplomacy piece, while other 4X games miss the mark on economics or politics. While I'll try the 2-player variant available, you definitely make it sound like a very worthwhile day!

Cheers,

Joe

Cremate,

I'll probably play it mostly with one other player (using a Variant) or two other players. In contrast to Eclipse or Space Empires which both lack any Diplomacy or Political aspect, and an otherwisee anemic Economic component, TI3 still appears to be the best 4X game with the sweeping arc of a strategic war game.

I'm working with one designer on a game which we hope can meet the rigorous demands of a great 4X game, including not only the aforementioned aspects, but also a strong research and technology piece, a robust Fleet system, and a more nuanced combat system than any on the market, including TI3.

Again, thanks!

Cheers,

Joe

One resource that I've found helps new players get a decent grip of the basic game play before actually playing (and thereby lessening the need to constantly referring to the rules about everything) is this fan made tutorial:

http://www.preeminent.org/steve/games/ti3/ti3demo/

Fnoffen,

Thank you very much. There's another player over at BGG who penned a rather comprehensive set of changes for two players, as well. I greatly appreciate the assistance, as it arrives on my doorstep tomorrow, and I'll introduce it to the Gaming Table in the weeks ahead.

Cheers,

Joe

Aaaah. To be able to open a new copy of this game again. I'm one of those people who simply LOVES the smell of brand new cardboard tokens...

Fnoffen,

I'm the same way, my friend. Over the past few months, I've added to my collection, including Troyes, Diplomacy, Jamaica, and now Twilight Imperium.

I augmented my Gaming Table collection not solely from a quantitative measure, but from a qualitative one. As I've mentioned on my blog entries, reviews, and posts, "Life's too short to play bad games."

Like a connoisseur of wine, my cellar isn't simply filled with bottles, but those worthy of praise.

By the way, the link you sent me is simply outstanding! Thank you very much again for passing it along.

Cheers,

Joe

No worries. While the tutorial IS a couple of years old (it doesn't even mention the second expansion Shards of the Throne) the basics will always be the basics so I find it to be a good way to both teach new players and actually also kind of almost test play it to see if one would like it before deciding to buy it or not.

I couldn't agree more...the basics remain the basics.

As there's absolutely no 4X game on the market that answers the call for politics, war, diplomacy, and economics, TI3 comes closest, and given its long term appeal, it seems to belong on a serious gamer's shelf.

Cheers,

Joe

Some first game tips that I think help ease folks into the game...

Actually get your entire group to read the rules in advance. I cannot stress this enough. I've played a lot of games with a lot of folks, and I know many who try o pick a game up as it goes. That really rarely works here. TI3 needs people to know how things work in order to operate at a smooth pace. You'll still have moments of doubts and questions, but having the core of the rules down is a must. Especially for combat.

I recommend using the optional rule Age of Empire (and no other optional rules) as this will really allow new players to get a feel for how to build an empire with goals in mind.

Plan a mid-game meal break. Seriously. If you've already been at the table for three-ish hours and are about half way through, just pause. Get everyone away from the table for a while, grab some food, joke around, look up any questions that have come up, etc. You're running a marathon here so take a moment to relax and enjoy it, without feeling the pressure of upcoming decisions.

Finally, agree to a time limit for any debating during Political actions. The game can REALLY bog down if everyone is trying to argue back and forth endlessly. Set a hard time limit and if reached, everyone has to vote immediately.



One of the things that I love most and FFG, and the reason they've gotten so much support from me over the years, is that you can download the rulebooks for their games in advance, learn the system, even mock up a few practice events if you need to with improvised components to see if you like how it runs.

Nagash,

Excellent post!

Reading the Rules: Great idea...it definitely made it easier for our first game, to have everyone familiar with the rules. We definitely used the Age of Empire rule along with the great offering from Fnoffen.

Meal Break: We definitely had this planned from the beginning and it worked well. With a three-player game (my daughter, her friend, and me) and we played for about two hours before our break.

Political Action Time Limit: In the end, we didn't need to use this piece, but quite honestly, our group moved exceptionally fast.

I'll have to take the time to write up a proper Session Report , but suffice it to say that in total, it lasted around 5 and a half hours with the break, ending with the Mecatol Rex card, and won with a total of 8 VPs, with the others at 7 and 6 respectively.

Great game!

Cheers,

Joe

I have a pool table that we play on in my basement so we keep the game up and that way can play over multiple sessions. I even have a ping pong table that goes over the pool table, which serves to keep my 2 year old from mucking the board. I also take a picture of the board set up and all of the sides and e-mail it to the other players. It makes the 1st round of subsequent sessions fly by fast since the players can look over the picture in between sessions.

I only have 2 other players and we have played enough that we are playing faster and faster.

Wick,

I started my love affair with board games in 2009 when my brother had Arkham Horror in all of its glory laid out on his pool table. It's been an exciting 6+ yrs since I first gazed upon that which the industry produced since 1995.

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Joe,

This game is absolutely worth it. As a big fan of Arkham Horror, you should have no problem with the level of 'fiddliness' of Twilight Imperium. As someone who enjoys long games, I'm a big fan of Twilight Imperium (I've even played the Long Variant) and I've noticed the game doesn't feel like it drags when you get past the 6+ hour mark (like Arkham sometimes does; don't get me wrong though, Arkham Horror is one of my all time favourites). My only concern about it for your situation is that whilst playable with 3 and 5 players, the game doesn't shine at these levels (due to balance issues although I've played satisfying 3 player games). 4 and 6 are definitely where it's at in my opinion. At 7+ the game does start to strain under its own weight

whilst playable with 3 and 5 players, the game doesn't shine at these levels (due to balance issues although I've played satisfying 3 player games)

There is a map set up diagram out there (I think its on the FFG site) that essentially removes 1/6th of a 6 player board to create a balanced 5 payer board. That helps a lot. I even created a spacer insert to show how the hexes connect so we can still use wormholes in the 5 player game.

Really smooths out having the odd number of players.

Personally we didn't like it but we were probably influenced by the fact that the one time we tried it, we had the 6th person pull out of us on the day of the game. As it stands now, 5 players is quite an odd number (lol) of players to have, so on days when we can only have 5 people we tend to play Battle Star Galactica because that game is best with 5.

If you adjust the map so that it isn't unbalanced, 5 players really isn't much different from 6. It can be a bit harder for the Universities of Jol Nar because it is easier for people to NOT take the tech strategy, but other than that...

I find 5+ players to be superior to 3-4 players. The need for every player to take 2 strategy cards always seems to create unnecessary confusion and delays.

Gregor,

You're absolutely right - it's a great game which appeals to me from two separate genres. First, as an avid war gamer, developer, and play-tester. Second, as a guy on his 40s, who grew up with Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica. The strategic level for combat, economics, and diplomacy keep me coming back for more.

Cheers,

Joe

Forgottenlore,

I'm looking forward to higher player counts in the weeks ahead. We've played only three games (one 3-player and two 2-player) so far and it's been a blast!

Cheers,

Joe

It's only worthy of the hype if you put the effort in to make it your own. It's an amazing game framework and world that is a bit all over the place. It's missing the last layer of polish to really shine. You need to "applefy"/streamline/hide the complexity of the game: manage the components, carefully chose optional rules/house rules, decide what FAQ stuff you will abide by, and explain the game well without inundating players. If you play the game exactly as it's written out of the box, not taking any care of the experience, and just throwing all the races/units/strategy card/FAQs at players you will be disappointed. You will also have difficulty finding repeat players. Some are absolutely vicious in their denouncement and condemnation of the game. Put in the effort and it can be an amazing experience

One last thing: this game is long. Longer than expected no matter what you do. And longer again if you have new/slow players. Games in my experience take around 1.5 to 1.75 hours per player minimum excluding any rules explanations. The minimum player count is 4. The best games are with 6. Rules explanations can take up to an hour. I would make sure all players know this going into the game.