An addendum: Monks should probably automatically lose duels, since they're not even in the Samurai caste. That requires balancing, but it's a thought.

Using story to justify creating mechanical imbalances has never been good for the game. Ask SLH/Spider players how they felt about getting hosed by shadowlands hate without any stat/ability based compensation.

The story is always flexible, the mechanics are not as flexible.

That is actually the one thing I never really got, for all the depiction of Shadowlands superpowers, why are here Shadowlands hate cards?

I mean yes there are things like Jade Strike so the Powers come with a balance, but where are the cards that prevent a kill action because you tap into your Shadowlands regeneration. At least that would balance the traits gives it ups and downs and not only downs...

Also I would not like the ability to duel to the Monks, because the Togashi and the Asako order are samurai and we also had our fair share of Samurai Monk cards especially among the dragons... I think a possibility for other clans to open monk schools would nor be so bad...

That is actually the one thing I never really got, for all the depiction of Shadowlands superpowers, why are here Shadowlands hate cards?

I mean yes there are things like Jade Strike so the Powers come with a balance, but where are the cards that prevent a kill action because you tap into your Shadowlands regeneration. At least that would balance the traits gives it ups and downs and not only downs...

Also I would not like the ability to duel to the Monks, because the Togashi and the Asako order are samurai and we also had our fair share of Samurai Monk cards especially among the dragons... I think a possibility for other clans to open monk schools would nor be so bad...

Shadowlands cards tended to have big stats for their costs, and their gold tended to come cheap. Both of these are in part due to the fact that they could ignore honor losses. So a zero cost, produce 2 gold holding that hit you for 2 honor ever time you used it was just a zero cost 2 gold holding for Shadowlands.

Free gold introduced its own problems, but the principle could also be applied to non-free holdings.

The Shadowlands kill stuff was to offset that advantage. Whether it overcompensated or not was another question.

A oni is terrorizing a village of rice farmers? Nothing a Sharp-Sharp Stick can't fix.

See, the whole "Bushi, Shugenja, and Monks each react to dueling in different ways!" suggestion is exactly what I mean when I say story conceits need to give way to just making a good, solid game. If there's going to be dueling, just make the mechanic work for everyone, and say, "This doesn't always mean a literal iaijiutsu duel, just roll with it."

See, the whole "Bushi, Shugenja, and Monks each react to dueling in different ways!" suggestion is exactly what I mean when I say story conceits need to give way to just making a good, solid game. If there's going to be dueling, just make the mechanic work for everyone, and say, "This doesn't always mean a literal iaijiutsu duel, just roll with it."

Indeed. Same duel mechanic for everyone, just certain clans would duel differently in a fluff/flavor/thematic sense.

An addendum: Monks should probably automatically lose duels, since they're not even in the Samurai caste. That requires balancing, but it's a thought.

Regarding Iaijutsu duels sure, but I think I would like to open up the duel mechanic so taht more different kinds of duels can be played with it... and a sumo contest would something monks could do.

Honestly, dueling should be a simple mechanic that works universally for all Personalities, with the only modifications being from exterior card sources, such as abilities on Personalities, attachments, or other card effects. When you start making exceptions to this, or that, or the other thing, especially if you intend those exceptions to be things that cannot be easily referenced without going to a rulebook and breaking the flow of a game, you start to have issues.

Edge battles in Star Wars LCG are pretty similar and can be ported over for L5R dueling.

See, the whole "Bushi, Shugenja, and Monks each react to dueling in different ways!" suggestion is exactly what I mean when I say story conceits need to give way to just making a good, solid game. If there's going to be dueling, just make the mechanic work for everyone, and say, "This doesn't always mean a literal iaijiutsu duel, just roll with it."

Indeed. Same duel mechanic for everyone, just certain clans would duel differently in a fluff/flavor/thematic sense.

Yeah, I'd much rather dueling be as simple as possible with individual cards and characters adding the twist to it.

An addendum: Monks should probably automatically lose duels, since they're not even in the Samurai caste. That requires balancing, but it's a thought.

Regarding Iaijutsu duels sure, but I think I would like to open up the duel mechanic so taht more different kinds of duels can be played with it... and a sumo contest would something monks could do.

See, to me, this kind of distinction belongs on a card, "Sumo Contest," or whatever. And probably only once there are enough monks to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, open it to all (a card like that, I mean. I'm not suggesting multiple duel options out of the rulebook).

Having to remember that the monk keyword makes a specific aspect of the game (dueling here) function differently is the kind of stuff I hope FFG stays far away from.

That level of detail, from a fan of the setting, is neat, but that level of complexity, especially when it's something you just have to remember, as opposed to being on a card, tends not to be quite as neat from a player standpoint.

They already had different duel types in L5R. Test of might, facing your Devils, etc. coming up with extra mechanics for what boils down to aesthetics is just needless.

Any time two samurai go head to head can be a duel. All duels can have the same mechanics, but you can modify duels with other cards to put it within your wheelhouse, with different rewards, penalties and parameters that modify the base mechanic.

They could use those mechanics to represent everything from iaijutsu duels to sumo to ninja ambushes to stance contests to magical duels. Not every duel in the setting was iaijutsu based, but iai dueling can still be reflected with mechanics shared with other contests of skill.

Perfect - give a raw idea, get a more polished one from someone else!

Though what I said doesn't necessarily demand that these be implicit Duelling rules - Iaijutsu duels can be "your target duellist challenges a Bushi or personality with the duellist keyword" (and some sort of penalty if the player challenged has no Bushi/duellists). And then there are the generic duels that anyone can be involved in (see: test of arms).

Miss Y...you say you want Monks to be available to all Clans (I think we can manage the same with unaligned Ninja, if we really wanted to), but what did you think if my solution to that problem? Is that an acceptable way to possibly bring them in to a Clan?

And they're Samurai...but they're not Samurai. (Can you explain that, please?) When you don't have a Katana, you can't do Iaijutsu, even if you WERE a Samurai, even if you were Kakita himself! (Also, just because it was rarely a thing in the CCG, doesn't mean it needs to come to the LCG/is logical/is good!)

And Matsu are berserkers, for what it's worth - think about how they conduct themselves...and the name of their school!

An addendum: Monks should probably automatically lose duels, since they're not even in the Samurai caste. That requires balancing, but it's a thought.

Regarding Iaijutsu duels sure, but I think I would like to open up the duel mechanic so taht more different kinds of duels can be played with it... and a sumo contest would something monks could do.

See, to me, this kind of distinction belongs on a card, "Sumo Contest," or whatever. And probably only once there are enough monks to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, open it to all (a card like that, I mean. I'm not suggesting multiple duel options out of the rulebook).

Having to remember that the monk keyword makes a specific aspect of the game (dueling here) function differently is the kind of stuff I hope FFG stays far away from.

All I can picture now is this huge dragon monk as he Sumo Wrestles a Crane.

And Matsu are berserkers, for what it's worth - think about how they conduct themselves...and the name of their school!

It became the name of their school. They started as "Matsu Bushi," and were renamed Berserkers in later editions of the game. They have always been faux-zerkers, since they were designed for aggression, but not at the cost of control. They conduct themselves quite well, given that their main keyword was Paragon for two arcs. =P

Perfect - give a raw idea, get a more polished one from someone else!

Though what I said doesn't necessarily demand that these be implicit Duelling rules - Iaijutsu duels can be "your target duellist challenges a Bushi or personality with the duellist keyword" (and some sort of penalty if the player challenged has no Bushi/duellists). And then there are the generic duels that anyone can be involved in (see: test of arms).

Miss Y...you say you want Monks to be available to all Clans (I think we can manage the same with unaligned Ninja, if we really wanted to), but what did you think if my solution to that problem? Is that an acceptable way to possibly bring them in to a Clan?

And they're Samurai...but they're not Samurai. (Can you explain that, please?) When you don't have a Katana, you can't do Iaijutsu, even if you WERE a Samurai, even if you were Kakita himself! (Also, just because it was rarely a thing in the CCG, doesn't mean it needs to come to the LCG/is logical/is good!)

And Matsu are berserkers, for what it's worth - think about how they conduct themselves...and the name of their school!

Well, unaligned Monks are a thing, unaligned Ninja not so much...

But many Samurai join a Order after retirement, having them to form closer ties to their original clan does sound like a very proper idea to integrate them into the clans from a story perspective.

The Ninja tradition is tied to the Lying Darkness. Shosuro founded the Scorpion monks, and the Shadow Dragon took the charge of the Goju and Nihube. I guess in an Onyx setting Ninja teaching would be more accepted and widespread in Rokugan.

Well the problem is that the Dragons were always ruled by Monks (the Togashi Order, the Hitomi Order and the Hoshi Order) until the rule switched to the Mirumoto at the end of Samurai Edition (ironically).

And they were also considered Samurai. Seriously you don't want to tell this guy, that he is not a samurai: http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=8574,#hashid=ab6f0bc3d5826e83bd8a8248b3761acb,#cardcount=4,#cnidprinting=2

The Brotherhood Monks on the other hand are real monks. The Clan monks were always a bit strange to me.

If FFG stays true to form, we'll have a ton of keywords, none of which will have rules associated with them.

Consider Netrunner. Fracters break Barriers, Decoders break Code Gates, Killers break Sentries, AIs break everything, Viruses get tokens... and that's just for Programs (and not even all of them). FFG is very consistent with applying these keywords, which allows them to use the keywords as an effective shorthand.

I would expect something similar for L5R. By pairing keywords with effects, they can eliminate the need for 'loaded' keywords. If all the Spell cards say you need a Shugenja personality, then Shugenja doesn't need the rule about being able to attach spells; if all the cards which let you move to different battlefields have the Cavalry keywords, then you don't need the rule about Cavalry personnel moving to other battlefields, etc..

If FFG stays true to form, we'll have a ton of keywords, none of which will have rules associated with them.

Consider Netrunner. Fracters break Barriers, Decoders break Code Gates, Killers break Sentries, AIs break everything, Viruses get tokens... and that's just for Programs (and not even all of them). FFG is very consistent with applying these keywords, which allows them to use the keywords as an effective shorthand.

I hope they tone it down a bit.

I for my part like keywords. The reason is easy for each keyword you use for a rules you can spare space on a card and the mechanics get clearer and more streamlined. Also you only need to care to word 1 thing the right way and no 20 things.

Also it gives more space for other conditions and addtional effects. So I think Keywords are something I want as long as they are useful and underlayed with a mechnic. Keywords just so people know wow this Nitoshi is a sociopath is something which in my opinion is not something we shoudl keep.

I would be extremely surprised to see any loaded keywords in the FFG iteration of L5R. I suspect those will all be on their way out, Naval and Cavalry included.

What do you think they woul do instead of Naval and cavalry to make both clans unique?