They weren't particularly happy, and the Spider's tenuous existence has been a source of a great deal of misery.

You'ld rather we go back to our old ways, little Phoenix? Go all Shadowlands horde? Claim Rokugan for ourselves and Daigotsu? Bwahahhahaha !

I mean misery for the Spider!

Gunichi has a point. The Scorpion have been... complaining for a while that their niche was nicked.
I've seen a *lot* of Spider fans being tired of that old song.

LCGs are vastly cheaper than CCGs. You are not playing competitively in a CCG if you just buy one booster box of each expansion, unless you're borrowing a bunch of cards, in which case it kind of defeats the purpose of comparing costs.

You also aren't spending only $80 a box only three times a year, since there were more than 3 sets a year (I'm also not sure where you're getting new booster boxes for only $80 each). And you can't fairly compare a cut-rate price for a CCG box with the full retail price of an LCG. If you're only spending $320 a year on L5R (four expansions at one box each, not counting a starter deck), then you're only spending $81 up front on the LCG (three core sets at internet prices) plus about $140 per year ($10 a month for most months, but $20 a month twice a year for a deluxe expansion). So the LCG is less than half the cost of the CCG, and that's when you're not even buying enough of the CCG to pull a playset of uncommons. You are getting fewer different cards a year in the LCG, but it's still less on a per card basis.

L5R moving away from the CCG model was not a surprise (people have been speculating about it for years now). FFG seeking out the IP to make it was.

I could not disagree more.

I will agree that LCG playsets are vastly cheaper than CCg playsets but yeah.

1. We never buy base sets because we all have 15+ years worth of cards stock and most are reprints or "soul of".

2. I've mentioned numerous times how large my playgroup was. We gave cards away for free. 1 booster box was almost too much.

3. We remained competitive. I'm pretty sure your statement is baseless on this matter.

4. Ebay is a thing(as are pre-orders), and booster boxes can be found in the $75-80 range all the time . Yes cheaper than Potomacdist.

5. Our card stock is so large, for so cheap, we just bought common and uncommon playsets from Yasuki Jeremy. MOSTLY TO GIVE AWAY.

I will concede that we all could not field Temple of Destiny x3, VtD x3, A New Alliance x3, and Accepting the Choice x3. But that would not be a competitive deck, that is collecting the most expensive cards to be a 'tard.

We are playing competitively, not collecting the chase rares. In L5R, these things are not synonymous.

In the last twelve months, I bought 1 booster of TNO($80), 1 booster of THA($80), 1 Siege clan deck($20), 1 box on TF($80) for no reason(well to give cards away to new players).

$260.00. And one set(TF) was because I had disposable income. Finished 3rd in Tacoma, and over meta'd Bellevue 2 days ago for honor and scrubbed at 3-3.

But I digress. I already mentioned that LCG is a little cheaper, but vastly? That is a myth, unless you DON'T pay competitively and only like collecting full sets .

One last thing, I like you Daramere, don't take this as any kind of flaming, I just think your competition statement was garbage, but I respect you and all the data collecting you did and posted on the old AEG forum

Having a large playgroup that sustains itself is the exception, not the norm.

I can accept that the sale is probably the best thing AEG can do for L5R, and FFG is in the best position to convert L5R into LCG.

Just really frustrated by the abruptness of the announcement. I have been buying singles in preparation for Onyx, and this was a major kick in the teeth.

I wish there was some transitional plan agreed between the two companies where Onyx Ed becomes the last set by AEG in 2016 and it may or may not feed into the relaunch in 2017. This also cuts the hiatus down to 1 year, which is more agreeable.

And we can have farewell tournaments for AEG in 2016. I am sure the fans will support these to thank AEG for the great experience and fond memories.

They could also have wrapped up the story side of things and maybe have an open-ended finale.

IMHO the transition could have been handled so much better. This was a huge missed opportunity to:

1. Give AEG a proper farewell/send off

2. Give us fans a fair chance to embrace the transition

Unfortunately, many of us will likely look back at this with a bitter aftertaste.

^ This part, I may have taken for granted, I'll give you that, and the game is probably even more expensive if 1-2 people are trying to get into it, no doubt.

Convenience is a big thing, too.

Yes, you can reduce the cost of a CCG through trading and shared card pools and buying only the singles you need and etc.

Or you can just buy an LCG release and be done with it. (Or usually 3x in the case of a core set.) You don't even need to figure out what to do with all those extra commons.

I think your playgroup is a big oddity there Gonzo (and you'll note my "unless you're just borrowing a bunch of cards" proviso). If you spread the cost of the CCG over a large group, and then are able to borrow almost everything you want from your playgroup, I'm not really sure how fair a financial comparison that is. I mean, I could loan a buddy extra SWLCG decks or extra L5R decks, and he could talk about playing for free either way, but I don't think that's the sort of comparison people are looking for here.

Also, with LCGs, I never have to sort a booster box again.

Don't forget the promos, (I remember at one time AEG had a very competitive promo that came with a mug, the mug was about 50 bucks and came with some boosters. So, ebay? Still expensive for one card.) and and the yearly special set that was always pretty expensive. It's been a while, the last one I bought was the enlightenment one around Lotus edition.

One nice thing with this format, is you can play any faction you want, any time and you have all of the cards for each of them.

If you don't mind sharing cards, you wont mind pulling 3x out of one deck to move to the other deck.

Oh and it is, vastly less expensive. With random packaging you can buy 1000's of boosters and not get the card you want.

Did you spend 100 USD for your kids Charizard, or did you buy 100$ of boosters?

For me, I'd rather shell out ~100 once (or twice) per year and then a trivial amount per month, even if the total number comes close to a CCG. The way that the money is spread out matters to me almost more than the total amount.

I am looking forward to not having 100 extra of any one terrible card.

LCGs are vastly cheaper than CCGs. You are not playing competitively in a CCG if you just buy one booster box of each expansion, unless you're borrowing a bunch of cards, in which case it kind of defeats the purpose of comparing costs.

You also aren't spending only $80 a box only three times a year, since there were more than 3 sets a year (I'm also not sure where you're getting new booster boxes for only $80 each). And you can't fairly compare a cut-rate price for a CCG box with the full retail price of an LCG. If you're only spending $320 a year on L5R (four expansions at one box each, not counting a starter deck), then you're only spending $81 up front on the LCG (three core sets at internet prices) plus about $140 per year ($10 a month for most months, but $20 a month twice a year for a deluxe expansion). So the LCG is less than half the cost of the CCG, and that's when you're not even buying enough of the CCG to pull a playset of uncommons. You are getting fewer different cards a year in the LCG, but it's still less on a per card basis.

L5R moving away from the CCG model was not a surprise (people have been speculating about it for years now). FFG seeking out the IP to make it was.

Just want to point out that your math is a bit wrong. FFG tends to give us a month break after a big box expansion. So, after the initial investments in Cores, it tends to be $180 retail ($120 using the online store's prices) a year.

And nothing says you have to buy a pack or big box expansion. Once the spoilers are up, you can check the contents, and determine if there is anything in the pack you want.

Personally, the LCG allows me to be the completionist that I prefer to be. So, I am happy with their distribution methods. Even in X-wing.

Yeah I don't know a single person who doesn't play competitively, so looks like multiple core sets will be the thing. As far as l5r goes, no one cares about playsets. I mean I buy 1 booster box every 4 months for $80.00. That is about $240.00 per year. Then we all trade for what we want between ourselves because we play specific clans. The secondary market is whatever, so no deck is worth $500.00, or even a 1/3 of that.

If I buy 3 Core sets($40.00), and monthly $15.00 expansions(how long? 6 months? 12?), we are talking $210.00. Cheaper, but what, 300 less different cards? Is that the sacrifice of "playset" collecting? 60% less individual cards for complete playsets?

Yeah, I definitely don't think that's the norm. Finding booster boxes for $80 is possible, but you're far more likely to pay $90-120, especially if you want to buy local. Not to mention that for someone without a long established group, you're likely to need to spend a lot more to field a competitive deck. I started playing again around the time The Coming Storm came out and have probably spent well over $1000 on cards and have mostly only kept up power rares for a couple of Crane decks. Almost everything else I play uses proxies, incidental rares from boosters, or rares that were won on eBay for dirt cheap. The playgroup I joined up with routinely buys 4-6 boosters or more for their collective pool and is still regularly having to hit the singles market to get certain rares to round out decks.

I actually do not see anything negative with loosing 60% of the card pool... Lets be honest most cards were pretty colored coasters.

I rather like to have a playset of all effective cards in an environment, so I can build the decks I actually want to play.

Seconded. After seeing one of many complaints about card pool size, I wondered exactly how much of an expansion was really useful. There is some padding, especially in holdings, to round out draft format, but there are other cards that are flavorful or whatever but are just garbage. I went through Thunderous Acclaim (156 cards, including sensei) and decided to remove anything I judged to be mostly or entirely trash from a competitve standpoint. My final list only had 86 cards. I easily cut 70. Yes, certain cards might be useful later as other themes develop, but I feel like as many or more could be cut because there are other cards in the format that are similar but just better or more versatile. I don't see an issue with card pool size if they focus on printing quality cards that give a good effect that fills a niche, supports a theme, or rounds out a specific category of card (move-in, defensive spells, etc.) that is lacking in quantity.

Personally, the LCG allows me to be the completionist that I prefer to be. So, I am happy with their distribution methods. Even in X-wing.

This was my biggest struggle with CCGs. I wanted to be a completionist, but after I left my cushy stable job I haven't had the financial means to do so. I almost always bought the D2P sets, even when I wasn't active in the game, just because I always got the full set. Buying playsets appeals to me greatly.

I think your playgroup is a big oddity there Gonzo (and you'll note my "unless you're just borrowing a bunch of cards" proviso). If you spread the cost of the CCG over a large group, and then are able to borrow almost everything you want from your playgroup, I'm not really sure how fair a financial comparison that is. I mean, I could loan a buddy extra SWLCG decks or extra L5R decks, and he could talk about playing for free either way, but I don't think that's the sort of comparison people are looking for here.

Also, with LCGs, I never have to sort a booster box again.

Eh I dont know that its that much of an oddity. Pre-ivory I was in a much smaller area with a smaller playgroup and that about sums up how we managed it. His playgroup just managed to remain healthy through the death spiral of IE.

I know people with Clan Mon tattoos. Yeah. We're really attached to our clans.

Actually I've been planning on having a Scorpion Clan mon tattoed and recent events convince me that this should be done asap

Loyalty above all else

I know people with Clan Mon tattoos. Yeah. We're really attached to our clans.

Actually I've been planning on having a Scorpion Clan mon tattoed and recent events convince me that this should be done asap

Loyalty above all else

This is actually my boat. It would also be my first tattoo

I was sucked in by the RPG back in college. Never really got into the card game, but I've enjoyed what FFG has put out in the past. Maybe when it makes the leap, that'll be my chance to get on board.

My tattoo would be Crab Clan. We are the wall.

I played and loved L5R for many years, and kept having to dip in and dip out. I seriously probably spent $1000 on Emperor Edition, and eventually just sold all my cards and used it to catch up on Netrunner. Best decision I have made in gaming. The game is a sizeable investment to get in (lets not kid ourselves), but once caught up it really is very economical. Yeah you are looking at the cost of the first year, but are you calculating the cost of the 2nd+ year? I recommend 3 cores, you can play with less but really why not just get a playset. After that it is $15 a month and sometimes $30 every 6 months (maybe twice a year, sometimes once). At $40x3, 1x$30, 8x$15 (they tend to take a month off after core and deluxe release) you come to $270 for the first year. That is pretty close to L5R at its cheapest. In truth you can probably find all of those online discounted.

The LCG model really shows its strength in the second year and beyond. You will probably get two deluxe boxes a year for who knows how long. I'm guessing one deluxe box per faction (come on Crane first), so up to 9. There is usually a month off in between, so you look at 2x$30, and 8x$15 totaling $180 a year. If you have 3 expansions of L5R as a CCG a year at lets say $80 although it could be more, you end up at a minimum of $240 for year two and beyond. That $60 adds up, and this way you end up with a playset of everything. As someone who just builds a random deck on a whim, this is a godsend. Most of my expense came from looking at a deck and going "I have to have this", and being able to do that at no additional cost is fantastic. Plus as others have mentioned you are able to skip a particular pack if it has nothing that tickles your fancy (although the completionist in me screams blasphemy).

It made me sad to leave L5R because I absolutely loved the game, and the theme and story that dripped out of every card was second to none in the industry. It just became way too expensive. This way I have two years to budget for 3 cores, and after that I only have to set aside $15 a month to keep playing. I can easily do that for a game this amazing. My entire playgroup quit because the cost just became too much. Last Friday was like Christmas. We never thought this would happen in a million years.

I played and loved L5R for many years, and kept having to dip in and dip out. I seriously probably spent $1000 on Emperor Edition, and eventually just sold all my cards and used it to catch up on Netrunner. Best decision I have made in gaming. The game is a sizeable investment to get in (lets not kid ourselves), but once caught up it really is very economical. Yeah you are looking at the cost of the first year, but are you calculating the cost of the 2nd+ year? I recommend 3 cores, you can play with less but really why not just get a playset. After that it is $15 a month and sometimes $30 every 6 months (maybe twice a year, sometimes once). At $40x3, 1x$30, 8x$15 (they tend to take a month off after core and deluxe release) you come to $270 for the first year. That is pretty close to L5R at its cheapest. In truth you can probably find all of those online discounted.

The LCG model really shows its strength in the second year and beyond. You will probably get two deluxe boxes a year for who knows how long. I'm guessing one deluxe box per faction (come on Crane first), so up to 9. There is usually a month off in between, so you look at 2x$30, and 8x$15 totaling $180 a year. If you have 3 expansions of L5R as a CCG a year at lets say $80 although it could be more, you end up at a minimum of $240 for year two and beyond. That $60 adds up, and this way you end up with a playset of everything. As someone who just builds a random deck on a whim, this is a godsend. Most of my expense came from looking at a deck and going "I have to have this", and being able to do that at no additional cost is fantastic. Plus as others have mentioned you are able to skip a particular pack if it has nothing that tickles your fancy (although the completionist in mean screams blasphemy).

It made me sad to leave L5R because I absolutely loved the game, and the theme and story that dripped out of every card was second to none in the industry. It just became way too expensive. This way I have two years to budget for 3 cores, and after that I only have to set aside $15 a month to keep playing. I can easily do that for a game this amazing. My entire playgroup quite because the cost just became too much, so last Friday was like Christmas. We never thought this would happen in a million years.

I happened along AEG's Doomtown:reloaded before it was actually sold. I printed out proxies and learned that game well before release. I plan on doing that for this reboot too. We have 2 years to wait, but it isn't like it is going to completely silent. Not giving out news will kill what hype they have now.

I am excite.

In regards to splitting booster boxes, couldn't someone split the LCG as well? I mean, if the core has 6 clans, find a buddy and split it 3/3 with them, then split the inevitable neutrals between the two of you. This game is a long way off, but I'm considering this to get my brother involved.

Regarding "junk" cards, They still occur in the LCGs, but my impression is that they are fewer than in CCGs. But it's important to realize that these cards are not just filler so the company can sell more product. Different people play th game for different reasons and not everyone plays competitively. Super thematic cards appeal to some people more than others. Some people don't care if it's competitive. Some people love the challenge of taking sub-par cards and trying to make them work. I play Star Wars and there have been quite a few cards (especially for Scum & Villainy) that have been below the power level. Most of them are still fun, but some are not. Part of the issue is that FFG's developers don't get the power balance right the first time. In the case of Star Wars, the first cycle is outclassed by the second an third ones for many of th cards. I believe a lot o this has to do with the developers trying to figure out how to properly balance the objective set system where 5 cards are always tied together.

My point is that I can't fully agree with the idea that LCGs have no filler cards. Even still, I vastly prefer the LCG model. What you lack in card count, you make up for in deck diversity. You can build tons of decks with an LCG playset. In a collectible style game, you may get a bunch of uncommons that are decent but need to be with a particular rare card in order to make them great. So you end up with "useless" cards that aren't really that bad, bjt require you to find that one rare to make them viable. If that's your primary deck it's worth it. If it's a secondary or tertiary deck, probably not. So I think the amount of decks you can build per dollar is far superior in an LCG. (And I don't mean every permutation of a card in a deck counts as a new deck -- I mean viable decks).

Wow You Guy's are really attached to your clans huh? This is not a stab at you! It's kinda cool people get so invested in their chosen clan (especialy with competitive play) But this might be something that FFG needs to be aware of, so they produce enough different cards.

I know people with Clan Mon tattoos. Yeah. We're really attached to our clans.

* blatantly waves around a excessively large mantis clan banner.

Yoritomo !!