The idea for this ship is that it maximises bonuses to trade endeavours right from the beginning, allowing a relatively rapid increase in PF for improvements and consorts. Its not helpless by any means, but that 16 Armour means it will always be fragile to some extent. Playing into the fluff, I tried to make it as luxurious and commodious as possible - a real palace in space. Despite its relatively low armour, thematically I still see this as the dynasty flagship regardless of what gets added to the fleet, even a cruiser. It is just too prestigious and opulent a vessel for a RT to want to decamp to an "uncouth" warship or mundane transport.

Modified and Refurbished Conquest-Class Star-Galleon "Auditor of Providence"

SP: 73

Statistics: Speed 4, Manoeuvrability +10, Detection +20, Hull Integrity 63, Armour 16, Turret Rating 1, Void Shields 2, Crew Population 102, Crew Morale 103, Crew Ability Competent (30), Weapon Capacity: Port 2, Starboard 2

Space: 56 (55 Used) Power: 75 (69 Used)

Essential Components: Modified Jovian Class 4 Drive (Archeotech), Miloslav H-616.b Warp Engine, Multiple Void Shield Array, Gellar Field, Bridge of Antiquity (Archeotech), Vitae Pattern Life Sustainers, Voidsman Quarters, Deep Space Auger

Weapons: 2 x Lathe-Pattern Grav-Culverin Broadsides, 2 x Hecutor Pattern Plasma Batteries

Cargo Holds and Passenger Compartments: Luxury Passenger Quarters, 2 x Main Cargo Hold

Additional Facilities: Arboretum (Best Quality), Melodium, Temple-Shrine to the God-Emperor, Trophy Room, Warp Sextant (Archeotech)

Ship Modifiers: Command Tests Made From Bridge +10, Double Time at Warp Without Suffering Morale Loss, Navigation (Warp) Skill Tests +20,Time Spent in Warp Reduced by 50%, Warp Encounters Every 3 Days

Achievement Point Modifiers: Creed +200, Exploration +50, Trade +400

Upgrades in Play: Install an observation dome as soon as possible. From there, upgrade as necessary to free up enough space and power for Extended Supply Vaults and a Cargo Hold and Lighter Bay. A Medicae Deck would fit well with the concept if space can be found, and Flak Turrets would probably be a good idea along with a Fire Suppression System once everything else is bought and if space allows. There should even be room for Augmented Retro-Thrusters and/or a Tenebro-Maze (if you can get your head around such a fundamental hull redesign as an "after market" enhancement). Standard Ship Upgrades such as Ostentatious Displays of Wealth, Crew Improvements and a Starchart Collection. Further in the future, a Targeting Matrix and Turbo-Weapon Batteries to increase the ship's "teeth" a bit, which will probably only be possible around the same time that suitable (and hopefully formidable) consorts and escorts are added to the flotilla. A Storm Trooper Contingent might also be a nice addition at some point to represent an elite house-guard unit. Once all is done, it still has bad armour for its tonnage, but really would be amazingly luxurious with great bonuses to social skills on ship (especially the bridge), the ability to defend quite reasonably against anything up to and including a stock light cruiser. AP bonuses would be even better after all of this: Creed +200, Criminal +75, Exploration +125, Trade +475!

Yet another 73 SP starting ship.

Does everyone insist on bearding the Warrant Path? It's supposed to be about flavour and background; if you just want your players to have all the toys don't bother with 'following the rules', just hand them as many SP as you want and be done with it - otherwise all your games will have the exact same Warrant history.

And here, in case you are interested, is a possible "final build" once the above upgrades have been applied.

Modified and Refurbished Conquest-Class Star-Galleon "Auditor of Providence"

Statistics: Speed 4, Manoeuvrability +12, Detection +20, Hull Integrity 63, Armour 16, Turret Rating 1 or 2, Void Shields 2, Crew Population 102, Crew Morale 103, Crew Ability Veteran+ (55)*, Weapon Capacity: Port 2, Starboard 2

Space: 56 (55 Used) Power: 75 (69 Used)

Essential Components: Modified Jovian Class 4 Drive (Archeotech), Miloslav H-616.b Warp Engine (Best Quality), Multiple Void Shield Array (Best Quality), Gellar Field, Bridge of Antiquity (Archeotech), Vitae Pattern Life Sustainers (Best Quality), Voidsman Quarters (Best Quality), Deep Space Auger (Good Quality, Power)

Weapons: 2 x Lathe-Pattern Grav-Culverin Broadsides (Good Quality, Space), 2 x Hecutor Pattern Plasma Batteries (Good Quality, Space)

Cargo Holds and Passenger Compartments: Cargo Hold and Lighter Bay (Good Quality, Space), Luxury Passenger Quarters, 2 x Main Cargo Hold

Augments and Enhancements: Augmented Retro-Thrusters, Fire Suppression System, Flak Turrets

Additional Facilities: Arboretum (Best Quality), Medicae Deck (Good Quality, Power), Melodium, Observation Dome, Temple-Shrine to the God-Emperor, Trophy Room, Warp Sextant (Archeotech)

Ship Upgrades: Crew Improvements (Best Quality), Ostentatious Displays of Wealth (Good Quality), Starchart Collection, Storm-Trooper Contingent, Targeting Matrix, Turbo-Weapon Batteries (All weapons, Best Quality)

Ship Modifiers: Ballistic Skill Tests to Fire Shipboard Weapons +5, Command Tests Made From Bridge +10, Double Time at Warp Without Suffering Morale Loss, Macroweapon Range +1 (no penalty for double range), Navigation (Warp) Skill Tests +20, Extended Repair Tests +10, Social Skill Tests on Ship +25 (+35 on Bridge), Time spent in Warp reduced by 1d5 days and then further reduced by 50% (Minimum 1 Day), Warp Encounters Every 3 Days, When Defending Against Hit and Run Attacks reduce Enemy Crew Population by 1d5, When Undertaking Hit and Run Attacks Increase Hull Integrity Damage by 1d5

Achievement Point Modifiers: Creed +200, Exploration +50, Trade +400

* Crew Improvements would use the following mechanic for Acquisition Tests: Vast -30 (RTC p272) in addition to the unit rules on BFK p126. Total AT -40 to increase to crack, and then another AT -50 to increase to veteran.

Maximum possible starting SP is 70, and that's only by min-maxing the Warrant Path.

And Child of Dynasty gives another 3SP IIRC.

Yeah, I realised that, but the point stands - why bother with the Path at all?

*shrug*

As I said in my other post, I am not actively gaming at the moment and just wanted to share some ship ideas. Website boards tend to attract min-maxers as much (if not more) than any other type of media, so the 73SP glut is understandable to some extent.

FWIW, the fact that I am trying to "min-max" a non-optimum hull and have tried to throw in some RP and conceptual ideology should show that I am not indifferent to your point or argument, I just love the hull and concept and so wanted to see if it could be made competitive and viable and how many SPs would be required to make it so that some random raiders do not blow your cruiser sized ship out of the stars without breaking a sweat and yet still be flavourful and fluffy, especially since 50 or so points on a Sword or Meritech Shrike could create something very formidable in a fight.

If I were actually playing from scratch and for real, I would probably end up using the paths organically and end up with somewhere between 50 and 60 SPs and put together a Goliath that could look after itself a bit.

For example

Modified Goliath-Class Factory Ship "Ambivalent Awlsman"

Statistics: Speed 3, Manoeuvrability -15, Detection +20, Hull Integrity 50, Armour 14, Void Shields 1, Turret Rating 1, Crew Population 106, Crew Morale 100, Crew Quality Competent (30), SP 45

Space 40 (40 Used) Power 51 (50 Used)

Complications: Rebellious, Haunted

Essential Components: Lathe Class 1 Drive (Best Quality), Miloslav G-616.b Warp Engine (Best Quality), Single Void Shield Array (Good Quality, Power), Gellar Field, Commerce Bridge, Vitae Pattern Life Sustainers (Best Quality), Voidsman Quarters, Deep Space Auger (Good Quality, Power)

Weapons: Dorsal: Sunspear Laser Battery (Good Quality, Space), Port: Mars Pattern Macrocannons (Good Quality, Space), Starboard: Mars Pattern Macrocannons (Good Quality, Space)

Cargo Holds and Passenger Compartments: Main Cargo Holds x 2

Additional Facilities: Extended Supply Vaults (Good Quality, Space), Plasma Refinery (Unique), Salvage Systems (Best Quality), Trophy Room

Ship Modifiers: Extended Repair Skill Tests +10, Time Spent in Warp Reduced by 50%, Warp Encounters Every 3 Days

Achievement Point Modifiers: Criminal +50, Explorer +50, Trade +350, Unspecified +100

Yeah, starting PF 45 and the ability to make more quite easily - certainly enough to get a couple of frigates or raiders relatively quickly for protection. Then a long slow build-up to acquiring a tricked out, min-maxed Tyrant If only I could find a way to fit Ships Stores on anything smaller than a Universe...

Fair enough. I do share your love of building ships, I just misunderstood where you were coming from

Yet another 73 SP starting ship.

Does everyone insist on bearding the Warrant Path? It's supposed to be about flavour and background; if you just want your players to have all the toys don't bother with 'following the rules', just hand them as many SP as you want and be done with it - otherwise all your games will have the exact same Warrant history.

Well, I might not always support it, but the fact is, getting a big ship is easier at the beginning, rather than saying "let's go upgrade to a cruiser", and having to go find one, which has, of course, been gutted. Then pay for everything, WAIT for everything, and THEN go gallivanting through space. Sort of the entire point is to make Profit Factor, so get a big ship, start with "low" PF, and go save the Expanse a few times; you'll be rich in no time, AND have a powerful cruiser. Combat is also sort of a mandatory, and the cruiser should maybe be better at it than a transport, especially when you play NPCs to say "what? That's a CRUISER? I didn't sign on to fight a warship!" and back down. I totally see wondering why all of these are spendy craft, but isn't it easier to get that part out of the way now, when the system brushes the details under the rug, rather than go get one, later, and have to make a dozen rolls, wait a dozen months (that you aren't working), AND pay out the ass to make the Acquisition test, since ships are among the spendiest things you'll ever buy. My feelings, anyway.

Hmm. So you'd like your character to start at Rank 9 with dozens of Near-Unique items?

I mean, all that advancement and those acquisition rolls, they're just so inconvenient. Why not "get that part out of the way now"? Answer: because power growth is part of the fun of RPGs.

How exactly does one choose to find a cruiser (rather than coming across it by chance)? I think if the location of a derelict capital ship was known it would already be salvaged. Is it not far more exciting for the players to stumble across something or be rewarded with it than just to be handed it at the start?

As for "having to wait" and "not working" while they wait for their cruiser to be ready - what happened to the ship they were in?

Also, how do you challenge the players without giving every pirate clan their own cruiser?

IMHO, a big fancy ship should be an end-goal, not a starting point.

Finally, on a purely flavour note, insisting on getting those 70 (or 73) SP from the Warrant Path means no RT ever got his warrant through blackmail, or deals in Halo Artefacts, or is Infamous.

Yeah, I'm mixed about the whole min-max thing. I mean, I like my players intelligent, but I don't like rules-lawyers. It's hard thing to balance.

I love the Conquest. It's just a beautiful concept for a starting ship. Also, I like the big-ship Dynasty. I'd rather see my players start with a big ship and no PF than a small ship with the PF to acquire anything they want right off the bat. I've only run a single campaign with a 30 SP ship and 60 PF, but I didn't much care for it. The main problem with 60 PF starting out is there's nothing preventing them from immediately adding to their fleet via outright purchase except GM fiat and I don't like to just say, "No" to that route. Yeah, it's a pretty easy rationale ("Ships for sale just aren't that common."), but it's still GM fiat.

I let my Warrant Holder decide on their background the same as I let other players decide on their backgrounds. Yes, it sets the atmosphere for the whole campaign and is more dominant than the backgrounds of other characters, but that's the nature of the game. A Warrant Holder with a shady past, or a reputable Warrant Holder with a questionable Warrant, or Warrant Holder with a questionable ship definitely affects how other players draw up their own characters. To offset this major power that player exerts over the whole game (and this really only works well with the big ship/small PF dynasty), I've established a Board of Directors that makes the major decisions for the Dynasty. The Lord-Captain still commands the ship in battle, but the Board decides all Endeavors. I alloted a number of votes equal to the starting PF and made sure the Warrant Holder had the fewest votes (the Explorator and the Missionary have the most). I also threw in a couple of NPCs with votes, a flow chart that determines how they will vote, and a mechanism for the PCs to influence their voting through social challenges.

Nicely historical

My rationale would be "yeah, you can commission a ship/buy a junker and restore it, come back in X years" but I take your point.

In fairness Rogue Trader is one game where individual power growth of the PCs and their ship can be secondary to the building of an empire and political power. In other words it would be perfectly feasible to start everyone at top rank and then dispense with experience points altogether in a way that would not be satisfying in D&D or DH. Instead just focus on what this powerful dynasty does in the world the GM has built. Kind of like House of Cards in space

space.

...IN SPAAAAAACE.

Yeah, nicely put. With the right players that could be a great campaign.

When we started with the Conquest, we were a poor dynasty. We went with the Origin Path system for the Warrant and Ship stuff, and were barely able to eek out 63 SP (to include some points gathered from the Explorers themselves), and that was only for the essentials, and we didn't have much for luxuries. We went out with only one broadside of Mars Pattern Macrocannons on each side. And we only had, as I recall, a 24 Profit Factor.

That left our options quite limited. I think only one of us made our free Challenging Acquisition Test, and I know it wasn't me, as the Rogue Trader. A Misfortune actually killed 2 points of Profit Factor, so we were really desperate for cash. And yet, we did accomplish the first adventure in the back of the book, thanks to some rather good tactics on my part and some very good rolls. We use the Acquisition rules out of Into the Storm book, so that makes every chance we tried to use our Profit Factor to be considered carefully, because in each session, after the first time you make an attempt, the second is at -10, third at -20, and so on, for each player.

Over a year now since we started, and we now have a little fleet of three ships, and a PF of 41 now. I'd say we're doing pretty good, but it was a challenge to get it up there. We've since upgraded the Conquest with a lot of stuff, but you'd be surprised at what just one broadside of Macrocannons can do, especially against smaller vessels. A lucky hit on a rival Rogue Trader's cruiser left him crippled enough for us to get away, so I call that a win in our books; in fact, we hit the bridge, and we're of the opinion that we might've killed the guy.

I'd say that the first six months we were doing mainly trade and conquest missions. We've lost some characters (went through two Arch-Militants, an Explorator, and a Missionary), and so our characters are a mix of ranks, from 1 to 4 (My character, the Rogue Trader, the Navigator, and our Astropath are rank 4s). It has been a learning experience and a lot of fun. We're now able to do some of the bigger grander adventures, and we even have some Imperial Guard troops at our disposal. I got them uniforms and everything, including vehicles.