So if I find myself in a challenge with an opposing Catelyn Stark (CS 143), can I still ambush (for example) a Widow's Wail (CS 96) on one of my characters to benefit from the constant strength bump?

In V1 ambush was a game mechanic and not triggering something, but the wording regarding keywords and ambush in the rules left us somewhat confused yesterday in a game with the intro decks. While we're at it: what about Renown / Pillage / Insight / Intimidate vs. Catelyn?

Keywords are Card Abilities, so once in play Catelyn would prevent their use. But under "Abilities" on p 2 of RRG, it says, "card abilities only interact with, and can only target, cards that are in play, unless the ability text specifically refers to an out of play area or element." So Ambush still works.

EDIT

CORRECTION:

Catelyn does NOT stop Ambush.

FFG has confirmed that in 2.0, an ability is not considered a "triggered ability" unless it is preceded by a timing word/indicator in bold-face type (like Action, Challenges Action, Reaction, etc.). Even though the definition of Ambush defines the use of the keyword as a player action, it does not state or imply a bold-face timing word in front of that action (the way that the definition of 'duplicate' expressly includes an 'Interrupt:...' timing trigger, making dupes count as triggered abilities).

I completely own this mistake and misinterpretation on Ambush. I can make a lame excuse about mixing up 1.0 circumstances, where the definition of Ambush does include an "Any Phase" timing trigger, but ultimately, I was just wrong.

I will leave the old, incorrect answer below so that people can see how the thread and its reasoning progressed, but please note the following as the correct answer/reasoning:

- Ambush has no bold timing trigger, so it is not considered a "triggered ability."

- Since it is not a triggered ability, Catelyn does not prevent its use.

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Short answer: Yes, Catelyn stops Ambush.

In V1 ambush was a game mechanic and not triggering something, but the wording regarding keywords and ambush in the rules left us somewhat confused yesterday in a game with the intro decks. While we're at it: what about Renown / Pillage / Insight / Intimidate vs. Catelyn?

It's worth noting that in 1.0, Ambush was defined as working like an "Any Phase:..." triggered effect, so the player was considered to be triggering something. Brienne of Tarth, for instance, did stop Ambush in 1.0.

Same thing is true in 2.0. Ambush is defined, in the RRG, as being used as a player action. Player actions are defined as using triggered abilities. Therefore, Ambush counts as using a triggered ability, which is stopped by Catelyn when she is participating.

Other keywords are not defined as using a player action. Therefore, they do not count as triggered abilities, so Catelyn cannot stop them.

Keywords are Card Abilities, so once in play Catelyn would prevent their use. But under "Abilities" on p 2 of RRG, it says, "card abilities only interact with, and can only target, cards that are in play, unless the ability text specifically refers to an out of play area or element." So Ambush still works.

You do realize that by this reasoning (which is incorrect), Catelyn does not stop events, either, right?

The text on Catelyn is, "While Catelyn Stark is participating in a challenge, your opponents cannot trigger card abilities."

She is placing the limitation on players/opponents, not on the cards themselves. As such, she never actually interacts with any cards and the whole bit about only being able to only interact with cards that are in play is moot. Catelyn interacts with players, not cards.

Catelyn interacts with players, not cards.

Argh, RTFC strikes again.

You do realize that by this reasoning (which is incorrect), Catelyn does not stop events, either, right?

I may be wrong here, but in my mental lexicon left over from 1st edition, were Events consider card abilities? My brain is defaulting to "stuff on cards in play" and I wonder if this is just a longstanding misconception that just got uncovered.

But having received correction, I'm rereading RRG definition of "Abilities" which in so many words a card ability is "anything which a card does." Which covers both Ambush and Events.

Thanks for the clarification on Catelyn ktom.

So, since I'm still a bit confused about ambush, even after reading the RRG on the subject: Could Treachery (CS 102) send the card I was trying to ambush back to my hand? After all it seems to be a card ability on my attachment or character I'm trying to trigger.

I may be wrong here, but in my mental lexicon left over from 1st edition, were Events consider card abilities?

No. The were considered "card effects." In 1.0, "card effects" were things written on cards; "card abilities" were things written on cards that are in play.

But Brienne specifically said that opponents could not trigger "card effects," so she did stop events - and agendas.

2.0 cleaned up the "card abilities"/"card effects" thing by saying everything on the card is an ability, and "effect" only refers to the part of and ability that resolves and changes the game state. This is why "card ability" on 2.0 Catelyn has the same impact as "card effect" on Brienne.

So, since I'm still a bit confused about ambush, even after reading the RRG on the subject: Could Treachery (CS 102) send the card I was trying to ambush back to my hand? After all it seems to be a card ability on my attachment or character I'm trying to trigger.

If you could please supply the card text, it would save a lot of time - especially since the exact text matters so much in these games.

Treachery reads, "Interrupt: When the effects of a triggered character, location, or attachment ability would initiate, cancel those effects."

Because Ambush acts as a triggered ability, its effect (putting the Ambush card into play from your hand) could be canceled with Treachery. (Unlike 1.0, keywords can be canceled in 2.0.) Note, however, that unlike events, the Ambush card is not considered to have been "played" or to have left your hand if the effects of Ambush are canceled. So the card stays in your hand. You're out the gold, but not the card.

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EDIT and CORRECTION:

Please note that the above answer about Treachery and Ambush is incorrect. FFG has clarified and confirmed that Ambush is not a triggered ability (see reasoning in correction above). Since it is not considered a triggered ability, it does not satisfy the play restrictions on Treachery, and so cannot be canceled by the card.

Thanks again for the quick answer. I'll make sure I supply the card text next time I have a question.

I may be wrong here, but in my mental lexicon left over from 1st edition, were Events consider card abilities?

No. The were considered "card effects." In 1.0, "card effects" were things written on cards; "card abilities" were things written on cards that are in play.

But Brienne specifically said that opponents could not trigger "card effects," so she did stop events - and agendas.

2.0 cleaned up the "card abilities"/"card effects" thing by saying everything on the card is an ability, and "effect" only refers to the part of and ability that resolves and changes the game state. This is why "card ability" on 2.0 Catelyn has the same impact as "card effect" on Brienne.

Ok, good to know I wasn't being completely dumb. Just one more thing about the new paradigm that I need to get used to. Thanks!

Ok, I see where an Action is defined as a triggered ability that contains the boldface "Action:" precursor (RRG 3). I still cannot find where "Player Actions" are defined as triggered abilities. So I'm maintaining (perhaps incorrectly) that Ambush (X) (which is not bold and does not have a colon after it) does not count as an action or a triggered ability.

Please note the edits and corrections in my above posts.

FFG has confirmed that in 2.0, a bold timing word preceding the rest of the ability is required for something to be considered a triggered ability in 2.0. Since the Ambush definition does not impose one (the way that it does define an "Any Phase" trigger in 1.0), Ambush is not considered a triggered ability. Since it is not a triggered ability, there is no interaction with effects that impact triggered abilities, like Catelyn and Treachery.

I'm sorry for my misinterpretation of the 2.0 rules. Hopefully, not too much damage has been done, and people will get the correct answers from the corrections above.

Ah, great. That's how I was reading it but was not 100% sure. Thanks!

Please note the edits and corrections in my above posts.

FFG has confirmed that in 2.0, a bold timing word preceding the rest of the ability is required for something to be considered a triggered ability in 2.0. Since the Ambush definition does not impose one (the way that it does define an "Any Phase" trigger in 1.0), Ambush is not considered a triggered ability. Since it is not a triggered ability, there is no interaction with effects that impact triggered abilities, like Catelyn and Treachery.

I'm sorry for my misinterpretation of the 2.0 rules. Hopefully, not too much damage has been done, and people will get the correct answers from the corrections above.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Word travels quickly and I'm sure if they do not read the correction that someone will just be like "ktom checked with FFG and confirmed his first interpretation was incorrect.". It's only been a day!