How does the Harbinger affect The Dragon mechanics? If you encounter a Dragon Scale and the Harbinger is in the Region, do you draw a Harbinger card or a Dragon card?

Dragon rules say:

"If a character encounters the dragon scale, he must draw one card from the deck that matches the dragon scale, even if there are already one or more cards in the space."

Harbinger rules say:

"Whenever a character in the same Region as the Harbinger is instructed by a board space to draw cards, he must draw Harbinger cards instead."

They both say "must", so does the "instead" in the Harbinger rules make the difference here?

As someone who owns every expansion, I'm wondering if they meant to print it as "instructed by a board space to draw Adventure cards"

"... instructed by a board space to draw cards ..."

The tokens are not board spaces that instruct you to draw cards (always these barely noticeable formulations.. )

deleted to avoid confusion!

Hm, I'm not sure we're following each other..

Odinsson asked (from how I read it) about what happens when you land on a space with a dragon scale but also with the Harbinger in the same region.
Would you draw Harbinger cards, assuming you encountered the scale, or would you still draw Harbinger cards?

From the book:

At the start of the game, place the Harbinger figure on the
Harbinger sheet. After a character (not in the Inner Region)
draws an Event, move the Harbinger to that character’s space.

Whenever a character in the same Region as the Harbinger
is instructed by a board space to draw cards, he must draw
Harbinger cards instead.

The first part tells me that no matter from what deck, for what purpose, or if the Event is even encountered.. The Harbinger will move to that characters space.

The second one answers Odinssons question: It's only when board spaces tell you to draw cards that you instead draw Harbinger cards. When you encounter a dragon scale you are not encountering the board space and thus you do as normal (draw dragon cards).

I hope I'm making sense.

Yes, you are right. Sorry. I instinctively thought of another problem related to summoning the Harbinger, but Odinsson didn't ask about that.

Ah, good call Nioreh. I didn't catch the board space detail.

Dragon scales take priority over Harbinger cards.

I was wondering this as well as Lycanthropes encountering characters at night.

Based on my interpretation of the rules (only read the pdf from the website; will be getting the Harbinger the on Monday) and various posts, this is the order of priority:

1) Dragon scales that match the Dragon King - you only draw the corresdonding Dragon card and encounter all cards on the space.

You do not encounter the Harbinger or any character, or the space.

2) The Harbinger - even if you're a Lycanthrope at Night, you don't encounter the character or space.

3) Another character if you're a Lycanthrope, and it is night

Do correct me if I'm wrong.

What about when the Harbringer is on the same space as a dragon scale of the current dragon king? Both are "must" rules so do you encounter the scale of the Harbringer?

As per my previous post, my take is the Dragon King's scale takes priority.

The Harbinger rulesheet doesn't mention Dragon Scales but expansion rules don't always refer to other expansion rules, or,the core game (still waiting for an official answer concerning Warlock quests if the Warlock's Cave is terrained).

As per my previous post, my take is the Dragon King's scale takes priority.

The Harbinger rulesheet doesn't mention Dragon Scales but expansion rules don't always refer to other expansion rules, or,the core game (still waiting for an official answer concerning Warlock quests if the Warlock's Cave is terrained).

Understood. But since both are "must" rules it's just arbitrary absent an official ruling. My interpretation is actually the opposite, with Harbringer taking priority over dragon king scales. The reason is that the Harbringer came out after dragons, such that if they wanted dragon scales to be an exception to the Harbringer "must" rule, they could have said so, but didn't. I realize they may have just not thought about it, but implied silence is all we have to hang our hats on in this circumstance.

I realize they may have just not thought about it, but implied silence is all we have to hang our hats on in this circumstance.

I am fairly sure this question came up.

I believe The Harbinger NPC takes priority over everything, including dragon scales.

But I think a FAQ is needed for the official word.

I agree that we need an offical rule.

Until then, it's a case of house rules where all players agree which of the two takes priority.

OK I just reread the Beta testing rules, I am allowed to say I did test this. I also can say I may have been 1 of only 2 groups who tested this with dragons. I am not allowed to make any official rules, and I have no official status with this. But I asked this question in beta and am fairly certain, remember I cannot claim any official rule, and thus cannot be the definitive answer, but most likely was told Dragons take precedence over the Harbinger, and that is how my beta testing group, and now all the groups I play with play.

This is NOT an official answer, and to make it even more unofficial, I purposely did not look up my question nor the response I was given during testing.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/

Its a corker for sure but here's my take: The character would encounter the dragon scale only if its the same as the current Dragon king, if not its the harbringer I say this because in the harbinger rules it says "must encounter the harbinger instead of encountering the space or another character. But of course this may be totally wrong and is more reason why the dragon rules are totally wacky and need fixing.

Its a corker for sure but here's my take: The character would encounter the dragon scale only if its the same as the current Dragon king, if not its the harbringer I say this because in the harbinger rules it says "must encounter the harbinger instead of encountering the space or another character. But of course this may be totally wrong and is more reason why the dragon rules are totally wacky and need fixing.

I think everyone agrees that Harbringer takes precedence over scales for non-King Dragons because in that case the scale encounter is not a "must." The tough question is when it is the Dragon King scale.

...

I think everyone agrees that Harbringer takes precedence over scales for non-King Dragons because in that case the scale encounter is not a "must." The tough question is when it is the Dragon King scale.

Not quite, this is not FAQ material at all.

You are missing a vital point in why what takes precedence.

Dragon p.10

If a character lands in a

space that has a dragon scale, he may either encounter the

space, a character in the space, or the dragon scale in the

space.

Exception: When a character lands on a space with a

dragon scale that matches the current Dragon King, that

dragon scale must be encountered.

...

Whenever a character in the same Region as the Harbinger

is instructed by a board space to draw cards , he must draw

Harbinger cards instead.

...

So.. in the same region as Harby:

-A character landing on a space with the dragon kings scale will never encounter the board space and thus never draw Harbinger cards.

-A character landing on a space with a (non-king) dragon scale will have several choices

a) Encounter the scale -> Dragon cards

b) Encounter the space -> Harby cards

c) Encounter a character (if present)

d) Ditch something, encounter the space and draw nothing at all (this is an ugly one but it is possible, check base game rules p. 9, last paragraph)

Nioreh, I think the issue is when a player lands on a space with both the Harbinger NPC and a scale that matches the Dragon King.

But.. didn't I just do that?

...

So.. in the same region as Harby:

-A character landing on a space with the dragon kings scale will never encounter the board space and thus never draw Harbinger cards.

...

I meant that since he is instructed to encounter the dragon kings scale before Harby cards can even become relevant, he will of course draw Dragon cards.
(When he is encountering the scale he is not instructed to draw cards by a board space.)

I thought the Harbinger sheet says when you land on a space that has the Harbinger NPC, you must encounter him by rolling a die on his chart and moving him to another space in any Region (i.e. you cannot choose to encounter the space, character, or dragon scale instead).

The conflict is when you "must" encounter the scale of the Dragon King and "must" encounter the Harbinger NPC at the same time.

It actually has nothing to do with Harbinger Cards.

Haha, how did that not get through (to me) until now?

My bad, I blame Monday morning and no coffee.

If a character lands on a space that has both the Harbinger NPC and a dragon scale of the reigning dragon king, they would encounter the Harbinger and move him and roll on his chart. This is a case of Special Abilities vs. Rules. The "must" encounter the Harbinger is an effect from a card, while the "must" encounter the reigning dragon king's scale is in a rulebook. Since these conflict, the tie is broken by which is an effect derived from a card, which supercedes basic rules.

Good interpretation, sanity.

Nioreh, I got confused too. Hence my original deleted post.

If a character lands on a space that has both the Harbinger NPC and a dragon scale of the reigning dragon king, they would encounter the Harbinger and move him and roll on his chart. This is a case of Special Abilities vs. Rules. The "must" encounter the Harbinger is an effect from a card, while the "must" encounter the reigning dragon king's scale is in a rulebook. Since these conflict, the tie is broken by which is an effect derived from a card, which supercedes basic rules.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure the Harbringer card is a card in that sense because you don't draw it; it's always in play just like the rulebook. The larger cards seem more akin to rulebook text than card text, which I interpret as adventure cards (or others of the same dimensions).