I'd agree with VikramS' proposal.

Here's my reasoning:

I hate Absurd and Shinobi Tradition more than Kunai. I think they are way more unbalancing. BUT, they fit their symbols better.

Efficient momentum gain without attacks dealing damage is supposed to be the primary domain of Chaos and Air. Kunai has neither symbol. Evil, Life, and Water are supposed to be relatively weak on momentum gen. They get fuel for their kills more slowly because they're supposed to champion different deck strategies.

Evil is CCHax (and similar) for good and bad: helping you make checks, hurting other folks' checks. Shinobi Tradition, while it feel it is too good (and should be at least restricted) fits on Evil.

Water is reversal fun and some card pool clearing, and somewhere along the line they decided to make it the symbol of readying your staging area (Alba, Galford, Ibuki, Billy). I think that's a dirt stupid mechanic, as it negates most of the costing in this game, but there you go. Shinobi Traditon helps you play reversals because you don't lose the resource of a ready foundation just for playing cards on your turn. It replaces card pool clearing, because it enables you to string lots of attacks together in a different way. And boy does it ready itself. So it fits on Water.

Life is the speed boost/life gain symbol. But adding one symbol that doesn't quite fit the mechanics is what distinguishes one character's support from another.

Absurd's damage boost definitely fit its Earth and Fire symbols (both damage boost symbols). It doesn't particularly fit Evil, but Evil is the wildcard there, just as Life was in Ibuki's support. I think the damage boost is too big and too easy, but there's no denying it fits two of its symbols.

Anti-momentum was never implemented enough to be really associated with a particular set of symbols, unless you count Air, Chaos, and Fire (Soul Reprisal, Unorthodox Fighting Style). Honestly, I think this SHOULD have been given to Life, which always needed something extra. Giving it to the symbols that already have momentum gain (Air/Chaos) is silly. But I guess it could fit Absurd off Fire.

I think the reason many people dislike Absurd is it does to much. Had it been split into two cards (with different symbols on each, one a damage boost, one a momentum hate), I'm not sure I would complain as vigorously about it.

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@Cetonis and da_ghetto_gamer

There's some merit to your idea of two banned lists: one very thorough to make for a much less high-powered game, one very light to let all manner of degeneracy explode. They cater to two very different ideas of "fun," but there are definitely folks out there who would go for each.

Chain Throw + Double Snap Kick in Legacy Paul / promo Mai is stupid.

Chain Throw+KFT+3x Absurd... On your opponent's turn!

B-Rad said:

yeah its called play astrid lol

You could always run willful that kind of hurts BRT just a lil bit lol

guitalex: You gave me a new idea. Phoenix Smasher Mai**. :3

kunai has got to go, chain throw is hella good but without it it goes way down in power. and saying kunai shouldn't go b/c james didn't run it in his worlds deck is just flat out poop.

kunai enables so many things way too early in the game, just like shinobi does.

and hoestly if you lose to a css deck or feline spike deck in legacy, you suck, plain and simple.

legacy is all about speed, speed and more speed. getting set up quickly is the game, kunai and shinobi are my main offenders to this. if they go the meta is a whole lot healthier, but it will still be fast as crap.

is anyone actually playtesting anything in legacy right now? we had a legacy tourney last night but we only got 3 people

I was playing Luise wind rush which was hella fun, there was a felicia spike deck and silly silly astrid

of course astrid still won i placed second and felicia with spike was 3rd

Personally the most offensive cards in Legacy ATM are Kunai and Emptiness. Kunai enables way too many OP loops and is the foundation too many of the FTK decks out there. Emptiness is on the completely other side of the spectrum. Tho or three first turn Emptiness plays completely shuts down most aggro decks in the format, allowing UBER control decks a way to lock out the game whenever they want. Ask Scott... he knows what I'm talking about.

Currently I am not testing any UFS as I am gearing up for the sealed season and extended season for Magic (Go Zendicar!) but you can be sure that I will be there next year to Defend my Title of Legacy Worlds Champ!

i'm playtesting the current decks atm

evil cody 7hs/24 vit

evil ukyo promo

water ukyo promo

water ibuki ur

chaos/fire promo talim

4 out of 5 decks use kunai

Scott Gaines said:

I'm assuming the only one that doesn't is the one that can't?

Given the love Death got in the last bunch of sets, how can anyone be overlooking Promo Ruru off Death... Or a Death/Goof hybrid. It gives me the creeps.

I really really wish I had gotten to play you in legacy finals Scott. Who knew Rock would do so well, I sure wasn't expecting much.

Having 3 Kasumi Suzakus do only 3 dmg to you is absurdly good. o_o My Rock was an aggro control deck that worked really well. I don't think full out aggro works against some characters, namely Rock unless you get him committed early.

B-Rad said:

Hard as heck to pull off.... In the super fast paced legacy 19 Vitality doesnt go too far. She also doesnt really loop or push enough damage through early enough

I personally wish I could have played anyone at legacy worlds. As far as I knew legacy was going on at the same time as teams, Granted my team and I didn't fair so well.. Round one, UFS House. LOL good times though. But still, I didn't think I was able to play and then to my surprise at the end of everything I could have if I would have just brought another legacy deck with me. Scott and I had a lot of conversations prior to Worlds we both talked a lot of smack and it would have been nice to have played.

My friend Steven ( Russian Roulette ) played my evil .Zi Mei. deck at legacy worlds. I personally believed it had what it took to get to the top all but the ability to use Fury of the Ancients which I did not own at the time so it had the basic of attacks:

4. Chain Throw

4. Kunai

4. Buffalo Headbutt

4. Infiltrating

The deck also had the ability to transition from Zi Mei to Ibuki to even Uyko after game one depending of course on what your opponent was playing.

Currently right now, I have been sporting water tycho. Its beening showing alot of signs that it could seriously be a top contender next year at gencon. That is of course so long as nothing comes out of no where to take away my tech. EI new banning or unbanning.

The game dose need its own ban list. To just say, Well this card was ban from standard format 3 years ago because it was over powered and broken then dose not mean it will be now. Things that we have said like Kunai and Shinobi Tradition which have never been ban do need to be ban. Here is a recent example, Chun-Li:::. was the frist playable Chun-Li, Everyone ran her. She was retarded in blcok 3. But dose that mean that she still needs to be ban in Legacy? In a format here she can dealt with? Or where someone else might just be faster then she is? I dont know. Personally I would love to play Chunners in Legacy. We do need a revison on the ban lists. We currently have two different formats, Standard and Legacy. Standards ban list should stay as standards ban and should change and drop as the cards are no longer legal much as magic with every rotataion. Legacy should have its own ban list too. Just because it was re-donkulous in standard dont mean it is in legacy.

honestly I wouldnt mind seeing any of the last set of banned cards come back (outside of Forethought and the hard locks it can cause).

All of the cards from that last set of banned cards were crazy for block 3 but in Legacy they are nothing special and if anything itll stop the craziness of Promo Ukyo/Suzaku and loops more than anything.

DS3P 02 Lord of the Makai- Wherabouts is arguably better off of every symbol. All needs the momentum generation.
SC9P 05 Olcandan's Mentoring- games usually dont last long enough to matter as much as it once did
SC9P 14 Chester's Backing- Yoga/Lost Memories are equally as bad. IF you really wanna run this alongside Yoga more power to u and using 8 4 difficulties, i think its borderline
SF07 #43 Bitter Rivals- stops loops, pushes damage through, stops Ukyo shenanigans
SF08 #40 Fei Long's Forward Kick- way better loops exist in legacy
SF09 #19 .::::Chun Li::::.- It wouldnt bother me if she stayed banned cuz LCK is dumb
SF08 #69 Juni's Spiral Arrow- if you wanna try hard control is legacy good luck to you, not ban worthy in legacy
SNK03 #65 Rejection- I actually think this would help with some loops and Suzaku/Ukyo barrages, others may disagree but there are plenty of ways around it.
SC06 #70 Forethought- hard lock early turns sucks especially with YWNE. this imo should stay banned

of all the other stuff i think it should all stay banned but if i had to pick one card Id take CSS off of the list.... you have to work really hard to stay alive and build long enough to make it kill