jgt7771 said:

::Shrug:: I've been making heralds to "fix" the base game's AOs. I've actually made one for most of them (I really hated how the classic AOs get overshadowed by relative obscurities). I'll probably make one for Shub Niggurath next week, after that I'll just need to think up something for Yig and Ithaqua and I think I'll have made one for every AO in the base set...

http://s622.photobucket.com/albums/tt307/avi_dreader/

jgt7771 said:

Exactly. The solution Im using is when I play against base AOs and final combat occurs, I draw 2 Dunwich Horror cards. The first draw shows a Horror check that each investigator must make. 0 san = devoured. I put the card back, and draw another (from a deck without the no immunities/resistances card). This becomes the AOs resistance/immunity abilities. Until FFG gives us the base GOO boost pack, with upgraded versions, it works fine in bringing them up to the par of later expansions.

in regards to Q-U's combat. Remember that the Warding Statue and the other like item (blanking on the name right now) can each cancel an AO's attack for an entire turn. Having one or both of those would go a long way towards removing some doom. PS of Tommy, Lily, Marie, Norman also can help in that department.

Also begs the question why is QU only 12 doom tokens if he's the most impossible to beat in final combat (tied with Azathoth). His slumber ability isn't to be ignored either. Even if you hand pick specific anit-AO investigators after you draw the ancient one (cheater), there's a good chance some of them will be devoured during the game.

I generally change six of the AOs in the base game to the following:

Yig: Each investigator must pass a Speed(+0) check or be Devoured. This check's modifier decreases by 1 each turn (-1 the 2nd turn, -2 the 3rd turn, etc.)

Nyarlathotep: Each investigator must pass a Lore(-1) check or lose 1 Clue token. This check's modifier decreases by 1 each turn and the number of clue tokens lost increases by 1 each turn (-2 check or lose 2 clue tokens the 2nd turn, etc.). Any investigator with no Clue tokens left at any point during the battle is Devoured.

Hastur: Each investigator must make a Luck(+0) check. Investigators who pass lose 1 Sanity; investigators who fail lose 3 Sanity. This check's modifier decreases by 1 each turn (-1 the 2nd turn, -2 the 3rd turn, etc.).

Shub-Niggurath: Each investigator must pass a Sneak(+0) [1] check or be devoured. The difficulty of this check increases by 1 each turn ( [2] the second turn etc.) Investigators may spend monster trophies as if they were clue tokens in an attempt to pass this check.

Yog-Sothoth: Each investigator must pass a Will(+0) check or lose 1 gate trophy. Any investigator with no gate trophies left is Devoured. This check's modifier decreases by 1 each turn (-1 the 2nd turn, -2 the 3rd turn, etc.)

Ithaqua: Each investigator must make a Fight(+0) check. Investigators who pass lose 1 Stamina; investigators who fail lose 3 Stamina. This check's modifier decreases by 1 each turn (-1 the 2nd turn, -2 the 3rd turn, etc.).

Granted, most of them are still quite easy by expansion standards, but at least there's some chance of losing. Yog-Sothoth is barely-altered: I just changed the starting modifier to +0 for consistency with the others.

I agree QU is virtually impossible in combat (do note, though, that there's more than one unique item that can cancel an AOs attack for a turn: I suspect the key to victory involves obtaining as many of these as possible- not sure how many there are, but it's at least two), though I don't think he's that bad in play. He'll devour a couple of people, sure (which itself makes it hard to prepare for final combat), but his in-play ability is nowhere near as bad as, say, Hastur's.

YellowPebble said:

It is harsher than Tsath's slumber ability though, in addition to harsher final battle. Yet Tsath is 13 doom tokens. Always figured the harsher in final battle or slumber, the slower they are to wake (Tsath, Atlach). I guess that's why a lot of people are puzzled why QU and Zhar are so low.

GrooveChamp said:

That could be a perspective thing though. Tsat shutting down Science Building directly makes it harder to get Clues from there, thus sealing him. QU "merely" devours 0-3 investigators, with plenty of time to see it coming. Unload the dead meat beforehand and you not only keep his/her loot, you also get a brand new, fully-laden investigator as replacement. QU never struck me as bad slumber-wise, at least not once you're accustomed to the idea that 0-3 investigators will get replaced.

Dam said:

Heh... Yeah, he's not *that* difficult, although he really screwed me up the first two games I played against him (I had no idea what I was doing).

i find QU's slumber ability to be rather forgiving actually. Generally only 0-2 investigators get devourered by it. When it gets to the 3rd deck, give away your good equipment and wait for the end (getting money/items for other investigators can help, or keeping a halfway decent weapon do kill the midlevel monsters). Then you get a whole new char with new starting equipment, bonus. His combat is a beast though.

thathagguoa's is just vicious. No clues @ science building, and you'd be surprised how terrible his ability can be when combined w/ certain rumors. No bank loans/docks to pay off the bomber, no boarding house for the Stars are Right, no magic shop for the Ritual/ Innsmouth Plauge. There are lots of others. gods help you if you ever happen to get cursed, cause you aren't getting rid of it any time soon. Poor, poor Rex Murphy!!!

awp832 said:

Tsathoggua doesn't touch Ye Olde Magick Shoppe. awp832, lay down the hookah .

awp832 said:

...and now we must add Falcon Point and "stranded offshore" to the toads malaise. You're right, St T has some nasty combo tricks to pull out.

dj2.0 said:

We must?

jgt7771 said:

It's covered in the FAQ.

I think a good rule of thumb is that the word "may" is what determines what is off-limits.

Uhh...Tsath doesn't shut down the train station so that it doesn't become impossible to travel to other board sections. Why wouldn't this exception be applied to Falcon Point as well?

GrooveChamp said:

That's what I assumed, but the new FAQ explicitly addresses this.

GrooveChamp said:

Technically, I assume it is because Train Movement is a manual rule based on a simple icon, but Falcon Point's "movement" is written on the text below the boardspace. It's even got the keyword "may" on it, which seems to be the spaces that Tsathoggua targets. The toad doesn't target the "musts".

jgt7771 said:

I was just looking at the text of Falcon point (I thought I'd justify the difference between it and trains as having to do with one taking place during movement and one during encounters) and I noticed this... "Boat Charter: During the Movement Phase, you may spend $2 to move to any aquatic location and have an encounter there (if applicable), or move any other investigator in an aquatic location to Falcon Point. Investigators may not move any further after moving with this location ability." As it is written, it means that you draw an encounter card during the movement phase, and would have another encounter the next phase. Who else thinks this was badly written?

*raises hand (severed, attached to tentacle)*

The whole movement phase timing on FP throws me a bit too, it took me several games to break the AE habit.

jgt7771 said:

The whole purpose of Tsath not shutting down train movement was so investigators weren't cut off from locations. Shutting down Falcon Point would go against this intention. Any wording that implies otherwise was probably unintentional.

GrooveChamp said:

It's been explicitly stated in the first draft of the new FAQ that he shuts down Falcon Point. I've asked for a reconsideration and a double checking of that ruling just because it seems so wrong, but, we'll see.

Avi_dreader said:

Wrong? Pfft, quit trying to sissify AH already ! Just means Silly-Sally (Silas Marsh) becomes more useful in a Tsathoggua + IH game.

While on the subject of getting there and back, if Falcon Point is axed (and Patrol Wagon is no-go since no Deputy with Tsat; unless Summoning Glass is allowed), if you get an encounter "move to any location in Arkham", can you pop into Devil's Reef? Can you drive the Patrol Wagon there in a non-Tsathoggua game?

Yeah, I dunno what I was thinking there, of course the magic shope is still open. Maybe I just have those rumors on the brain because I had them in dynamic duo earlier this week. Aargh, my spells!!

Concerning move to a location & have an encounter/ patrol wagon no-mr.T, I'd say yes to both. Doesnt seem to be anything at all that prohibits this.

Dam said:

Dam, if you hate winning so much, you really ought to play with some of my heralds more often ;'D

Currently it seems like you can't make a movement there. I asked for a further clarification, but the answer is probably not.

Avi_dreader said:

Pff, of course it's wrong! It's been obvious for a while that a lot of the designers lost their last sanity point back in the Black Goat expansion and now we must deal with their "make the game impossible" blight card.

Seriously, Innsmouth and its ancient ones are hard enough without cutting off access to 2 unstable locations capable of spitting out monsters right next to 2 vortexes (vorti?). There really is no reason to keep the train station open but not falcon point.

GrooveChamp said:

Vortices.