So, just managed to beat Deadmen's Dike solo...

By Gizlivadi, in The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game

I beat it on my 4th attempt with a thematic Dúnedain deck with Tactics Aragorn, Halbarad and Sam. I was extremely lucky with the Rangers of the North, of which I revealed 2 in the same turn, while the other went as a shadow card. The last two rounds were basically the following. Both The Shadow World and The Power fo Angmar are in play so Iarion is a 3/3/3, and I am engaged with Thaurdir, Cursed Dead, Dead Lord, and Thaurdir's Damned. I had a bunch of allies in play, including 2 Rangers of the North. I play Gandalf killing the Lord, quest for 7 with Sam and Halbarad (STWB), reveal some random location. Then Feint Thaurdir, successfully block the remaining 2 enemies and with all my might deal 5 damage to Thaurdir. Next turn I play another Gandalf, deal 4 damage to Thaurdir so he has no hitpoints left. Quest for like 22 and defeat the stage.

My conclusion of the deck is that it's basically a worse version of Elladan and Elrohir decks or Gondor decks that use Tactics Boromir + two Leadership heroes. Halbarad's ability is great for questing, and Aragorn's passive came in handy. But overall it really lacks action advantage in combat, since Heir of Mardil cannot go in any of these heroes. I hope we get some attachmet or something that readies Dúnedain, or get some Sneak Attack kinda effects. I have talked about Ranger of Cardolan before and I speculate that he's going to have some kind of Sneak Attack built in that you can use when you engage an enemy. That would be nice, but I don't think it would be enough. In any case, I am really curious about the new Dúnedain stuff we've been promised and hopefully it will make the Dúnedain archetype more versatile and just overall a bit more powerful.

I think I have just said that in another thread. So far, the Dúnedain decks are weak. I have a feeling they will become a bit like Gondor. Well, Gondor (pure theme I mean) decks are strong in the supporting role, not on their own. I am not sure how Dúnedain play as a support right now but on their own they are indeed quite weak. Of course, the more allies we get the better; but the expensive allies mean you would have to go for help in the likes of Horn or Steward of Gondor (the latter of which being the far safer bet here). I always feel like the factions with cheaper allies (hello Silvan, **** Outlands) tend to be more reliable and just overall more powerful.

Edited by Fingolfin Fate

As a support, Dunedain can really rock in combat, and if you include Mablung (ok, not Dunedain...) they can even pump out resources to afford big expensive cards. The big thing with Aragorn is that you can create a strong position in the combat with where the enemies are, and the other deck can relax almost completely in this respect.

Fingolfin Fate, solo Gondor right now is totally viable and pretty powerful, though of course it is weak against quests with lots of treacheries and ally hate. Against everything else it's a very strong deck and will only get better with Doom Hangs Still and the Veteran of Osgiliath. I don't think that it's more powerful than Dwarves or Outlands, or even Silvan elves, but be sure that solo Dúnedain doesn't hold a candle to solo Gondor, at least for now. What I think the deck lacks is some kind of global boost like Boromir's ability, and some consistent way to ready heroes during combat. I'm anxious to know what our future Dúnedain leadership hero in the 5th pack will be, and I hope it really helps bolster the trait.

The worry I have with this game is that it seems every 'trait' deck needs a global boost to be powerful. Which is a design crutch, and not a very subtle one. So if the Dunedain only work with a global boost, I'll be pretty bored. I'm a little tired of the final part of a trait being "and everyone gets more stats", rather than something, I dunno, cleverer (although, I should add, not being a designer, I don't know a) what this would be or b) if it would work, and I do appreciate the work they put in the vast majority of the time).

I like the fact that right now, the Dunedain seem to work by reducing the enemies' stats, which is unusual, and something I think could be a better idea as a uniting theme. As it stands, every major trait deck works by boosting the meagre stats of the allies to epic levels, and to some extent just swarming the encounter deck. If the heroes could ready effectively, and be more about that than boosting the allies/heroes stats, I'd be more interested.

I'm all for a new unique mechanic that compensates for the Dúnedain's lack of global boosts. But since the trait seems to be specialized in leadership, the sphere of global boosts and ally mustering, I personally wouldn't mind seeing a global stat boost on the condition of having an engaged enemy, for example. It may be boring, but it's efficient.

In any case, I agree that what the deck really lacks is action advantage. Silvan elves have Galadriel's passive ability, mono leadership has Strength of Arms plus lots of allies, and tactics Boromir decks have, well, tactics Boromir. In-built Sneak Attack effects on allies would be nice, since it's essentially action advantage. I too would not like it if Dúnedain just swarmed the table with weenies, it would feel boring and too similar to Gondor. But if you can't have lots of allies, you have to compensate the lack of bodies with action advantage, be it with readying effects or temporal ally mustering.

Fingolfin Fate, solo Gondor right now is totally viable and pretty powerful, though of course it is weak against quests with lots of treacheries and ally hate. Against everything else it's a very strong deck and will only get better with Doom Hangs Still and the Veteran of Osgiliath. I don't think that it's more powerful than Dwarves or Outlands, or even Silvan elves, but be sure that solo Dúnedain doesn't hold a candle to solo Gondor, at least for now. What I think the deck lacks is some kind of global boost like Boromir's ability, and some consistent way to ready heroes during combat. I'm anxious to know what our future Dúnedain leadership hero in the 5th pack will be, and I hope it really helps bolster the trait.

But don't you play Samwise in that deck? I play it Boromir, Imrahil, Beregond, and whilst I really like the deck, it cannot compete against many quests most of the time. If you go mono-Leadership then it is no longer Gondor, well not Gondor I was talking about. Use Sam or Balin, or even Aragorn or Théodred and it gets better solo, yes, I have tried (the latter two especially) but it still doesn't compare to the real powerful decks: Rivendell, Lórien, etc.

But yes, Dúnedain need help but I am not expecting them to be viable power deck any time soon. (And I hope I am proven wrong).

[edit] I have been using Veteran of Osgiliath since he had been first previewed. It is a very nice addition to the Gondor deck. I have also tried Doom Hangs Still. Without success whatsoever. But maybe it needs more games, and it most likely needs mono-Leadership.

On a side note, I do like the Leadership Boromir quite a bit. I wouldn't play a Gondor deck without him. The extra attack power is so helpful. The fact that the 0-attack allies like Errand-rider can make a difference, and Envoy of Pelargir hits for 2 for 1 resource, is quite invaluable in many situations, especially early game.

Edited by Fingolfin Fate

I think that first you should try it with mono-leadership. It is really good. Of course that if you go with Beregond and Imrahil and don't even use Aragorn for Sword that was Broken or leadership Boromir it will not be as good, but I suggest you try it. I also use Balin, which really helps. In solo, going pure theme is hard, and IMO not really necessary. Boromir + Aragorn + Balin + lots and lots of Gondor allies still feels Gondor to me.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/139289-the-army-of-gondor/ Here you'll find my overview of the Gondor deck, both mono-leadership and leadership-tactics. The latter basically depends on a 3 card combo so it's harder to pull off, so I maintain that mono-leadership is my favorite way to do it.

Edited by Gizlivadi

Gizlivadi, I totally agree - if the boost can be tied to the essential mechanics it will be better (although I am generally less keen on global boosts), but there needs to be some serious readying help with Dunedain heroes to smooth out the archetype. If they could ready consistently, then with their stats they are powerful characters. But in order to do away with hordes of allies, in some quests, you need to ready heroes a LOT!

That is interesting, because I personally find ready effects to be boring and I like global boost effects. People are different.

Well, personally I'm not talking about whether readying effects are fun or boring, I'm just talking about how the deck can become viable enough so that it doesn't lose as easily against most quests, simple as that. And the main thing that makes this deck lose is the lack of action advantage. Readying effects are the most common and practical way to get action advantage (aside from chump blocking/weenies), although I agree, we could get some other form of action advantage, maybe like "While condition X is met, your heroes or allies don't exhaust to do Y". Call it readying or whatever, but it's essentially the same. How else are you gonna win with all your boosting effects when you can only block and attack 1 or at most 2 enemies each round without action advantage?

Edited by Gizlivadi

I wouldn't say I'm against global effects per se, it's just that at times it seems like every trait based synergy is based around boosting stats - I worry that in the end it's going to be 'how does this trait boost X stats' as the only really defining feature. It's not that bad, of course, as the game is complex etc., and this is very much my own personal bug-bear, but I just don't want the deck design and game mechanics to get too repetitive.

It's also in part about what is thematic for the Dunedain - and to me that must be in part the resourcefulness of the Dunedain in eking the most out of limited numbers. Anyway...I've gone on about this too much. Interesting discussion though, thank you!

Let's see, there's Dain, leadership Boromir, hardy leadership, visionary leadership, and almost all the outlands. Those are powerful but boring. Then you have unexpected courage, light of Valinor, tactics Boromir, rohan warhorse, swift foot (name? for rangers), shadowfax, fast hitch... a lot more ready effects, which I think is boring. It seems like every fan made card idea has a ready effect.

More interesting is stuff like Galadriel, Celeborn, or spirit Theoden. There are ready effects or Stat boosts but in a more thematic and limited sense, or a trait bonus that lowers cost instead.

I agree that Dunedain are weak, but if you put in too much action advantage you have another deck with one stat monster killing everything, which is lame to me. Let's see where the set goes first, as they are getting more creative.

I think that first you should try it with mono-leadership. It is really good. Of course that if you go with Beregond and Imrahil and don't even use Aragorn for Sword that was Broken or leadership Boromir it will not be as good, but I suggest you try it. I also use Balin, which really helps. In solo, going pure theme is hard, and IMO not really necessary. Boromir + Aragorn + Balin + lots and lots of Gondor allies still feels Gondor to me.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/139289-the-army-of-gondor/ Here you'll find my overview of the Gondor deck, both mono-leadership and leadership-tactics. The latter basically depends on a 3 card combo so it's harder to pull off, so I maintain that mono-leadership is my favorite way to do it.

No, I totally see the point. I think I have played a stronger and more thematic (than the one listed in the thread) deck -- but I do not talk about it as a competition. I see what you mean about theme and power. I take my own detours but when it comes to Gondor, I only want to play Gondor because there are certainly enough characters to do so. I do allow for Gandalf though, and Aragorn sometimes. I always use Leadership Boromir. I can see Balin will help for chump blocking (canceling a bad shadow effect) that the mono-Leadership deck depends upon. Boromir, Imrahil, Aragorn is pretty cool though.

Well, as I said before, I still hope Gondor gains more tricks. I think we are both really looking forward to the Reinforcement event. What is your guess as to what it might do?

I was mainly referring to my first post in that thread as opposed to the deck OP posted himself, but in any case I agree, and yes, Imrahil can make a pretty good team with Aragorn and Boromir. I really just wanna get the Rhudaur pack to see Reinforcements, but judging from the title it will probably put allies into play from somewhere for free, kinda like A Very Good Tale.

Edited by Gizlivadi

Judging by the title, it really might do just that. Though I wonder if it be just like A Very Good Tale. Surely you won't have to pay other costs if the printed one is already high (including the requirement of 3 Leadership heroes).