So, I've been noticing that guardsmen are rather durable, probably too durable in some cases. Most guardsmen will probably bump their toughness to 3X and flak amour will give them 4 AP, that's about 7 points of soak to start. This probably is only more glaring against lower level foes, as it seems they will have a hard time penetrating this. Guardsman vs Guardsman battles (like the Serveran Dominate) would be rather drawn out. A lasgun does 1d10+3, so they will be need to hit and roll above 4 to do a single point of damage. A storm trooper with 6AP and 4X toughness would be partially invincible.

I mean, the natural solution is to probably break out the plasma/melta guns, but not everyone in the unit can be armed with them. It gets rather silly, maybe?

What's the work around or strategies GMs would recommend?

1. Overload setting

2. Sergeant sweeping order that gives +4 damage

3. Heavy weapons, such as heavy stubber and up

In my experience the guardsmen are not nearly as durable as you might think. A single lasgun shot is unlikely to kill of course, but a well-trained guardsmen PC with a few talents will reliably shoot down an NPC guardsman with 7 soak, using semi-auto burst on overcharge and especially overload setting. Add in a Sergeant and you might not need more than 1 or two shots. It's not completely realistic, but much more playable than having 50% or more to get killed by normal lasgun or autogun round.

Alternatively, rework the damage system into something that is more lethal and doesn't have the PC's naked bodies (as I am convinced that TB is the issue here, not AP) as tough as the armour they wear, or the combined physical resilience of human flesh and a flak vest to be equal to ceramite-covered Space Marine power armour.

There would be a few ways to do so if you want to go down this approach, from simply removing, halving or otherwise reworking TB to outright adopting an entirely new system like this proposed mechanic inspired from GW's Inquisitor game.

It comes down to how you want to approach this issue, and what you feel would be appropriate in how to resolve it. For example, whilst Overload settings would be an option, I really don't think the game should require them as a default.

I will also add that, personally, whilst I believe that the damage/wound system from these games is deeply flawed, it is more of a problem in Dark Heresy and the other games than in Only War, as the average Guardsman is unlikely to grow their resilience beyond a fairly mediocre value. You can still die easily in OW, so you should take care not to make your players too vulnerable.

My record for a player character's shortest life was my Valhallan marksman who got axed by an Ork in the first session of play. The entire squad got wiped out as the greenskins stormed the trench. And this was supposed to be the first scene of an introductory adventure, as per the GM!

You can break out the Formation Combat rules ... you shoot at whole units instead of individual targets and basically if you beat the TB + AP value, a minion goes down. If you are fighting Orks, their extra durability is represented by a special rule where a casualty gets a Toughness Test as a saving throw if the damage doesn't exceed the Ork's TB.

I delight in arming Severan Dominate soldiers with Manstopper Rounds, for Pen 3 Autoguns. Boltgun Weapon Specialists and Heavy Gunners also massively up the threat level. Hotshot Lasguns nullify most armour.

Hm, I do like the overload setting idea and formations would fix that issue. The reverse is true for the opposing force to up the danger too. While exotic weapons are nice, I want to avoid a situation where it seems like everyone is packing rare weapons in a fight. Just an old-school shoot out, with lasguns. Heavy weapons crews would be acceptable though.

I like to use the stated heavy weapons teams in addition to Severan Dominate troopers (Heavy Stubbers mainly though, because Heavy Bolter imba **** :<), but usually like to throw in a sniper or two. Even factoring in the terrible BS of the Guardsman/Dominate soldier, one of these becomes a decent shot if you give them a Targeter in addition to the standard Telescopic Sight of a sniper rifle. Particularly when firing from a concealed position while the team is fighting the actual infantry, the sniper is a valid threat that serves to raise the tension and danger level.

Even factoring in the terrible BS of the Guardsman/Dominate soldier, one of these becomes a decent shot if you give them a Targeter in addition to the standard Telescopic Sight of a sniper rifle.

Better give him Marksman talent and Red-Dot Laser Sight.

I basically re-vamped the comrade system so the player characters have comrades = 10-number of PCs to be divided between them. so 4 PCs means 6 comrades. instead of providing +5 to hit they can provide a +2 bonus to damage (among other things, comrades basically function as buffs). This represents the enemy basically drowning in massed lasfire that would ordinarily do very little, which fits the fluff pretty well.

also if you get hold of an accurate gun that can be really harsh

also talents

Alternatively, rework the damage system into something that is more lethal and doesn't have the PC's naked bodies (as I am convinced that TB is the issue here, not AP) as tough as the armour they wear, or the combined physical resilience of human flesh and a flak vest to be equal to ceramite-covered Space Marine power armour.

wow never thought of it that way!

wow never thought of it that way!

One of the constant nitpicks I have with a system I otherwise like a lot.

I've played more Dark Heresy than OW, but I always found that whilst the TB+AP works nicely in the low power levels, things just get out of hand at some point as both values are upgraded with XP and gear, to the point that the GM will no longer bother to throw enemies with las- and autoguns at you, which I found ... sad, and unsuitable for the setting.

It's a matter of opinion, though - many players have no issue with this, and many even prefer this kind of immunity because it may feel more heroic. So, YMMV!

I've played more Dark Heresy than OW, but I always found that whilst the TB+AP works nicely in the low power levels, things just get out of hand at some point as both values are upgraded with XP and gear, to the point that the GM will no longer bother to throw enemies with las- and autoguns at you, which I found ... sad, and unsuitable for the setting.

i feel like its not the spirit of the game too, but then my players will never get powerful enough to have their because they don't survive to get enough EXP. IMO if a guardsman survives to get 5000 exp the gm doesnt understand the poiint of the game. if you want that you may as well play a different military rpg where you arent a soldier in an army of billions whose main tactic is attrition and 'throw more bodies at it'

in fact, that literally how i do my campaign against the Tau: the Tau respond to imperial tactics by designing tech to combat it, the imperium responds by throwing more troops at them haha but i digress...

You could use non-guardsman opposition. You'll soon see a change of pace if you put even a small handful of Chaos Marines, for example, in their way.

You could use non-guardsman opposition. You'll soon see a change of pace if you put even a small handful of Chaos Marines, for example, in their way.

a Handful?!? my PCs would struggle against 1 haha

What I like to do is use a single Chaos Marine as an overseer for Traitor Guardsmen. I can tell you now, people scatter when they see a Legion Boltgun aimed their way.

As is, my players have gotten into the frame of mind that every wound counts, because my campaigns (after the first where I was still getting used to it) developed a high mortality rate, and go out of their way to avoid even Lasgun fire, because they know that 1 wound through here and there will still kill them if they have to fight through several squads of Traitors.

I've also instilled a mortal fear of the Autogun thanks to Manstopper Rounds.

Autoguns in close range can end a group rather quickly, given the bonuses available and the full-auto setting. Don't forget that Suppressing Fire is always an option, and that Severan Dominate soldiers have grenades...

So, I've been noticing that guardsmen are rather durable, probably too durable in some cases. Most guardsmen will probably bump their toughness to 3X and flak amour will give them 4 AP, that's about 7 points of soak to start. This probably is only more glaring against lower level foes, as it seems they will have a hard time penetrating this. Guardsman vs Guardsman battles (like the Serveran Dominate) would be rather drawn out. A lasgun does 1d10+3, so they will be need to hit and roll above 4 to do a single point of damage. A storm trooper with 6AP and 4X toughness would be partially invincible.

I mean, the natural solution is to probably break out the plasma/melta guns, but not everyone in the unit can be armed with them. It gets rather silly, maybe?

What's the work around or strategies GMs would recommend?

In RL, the grunts don't cause the damage in a squad with their assault rifles, the squad automatic weapon does. The grunts are just there to defend the MG team, replace gunners if necessary, carry extra ammo and spot the enemy.....

Several posters have already suggested ways to boost damage.

I'd add assisting each other. Instead of 10 grunts each trying to hit and do 1d10+3 damage with their lasguns, have 3 grunts shoot semi-auto, with a +20 (for 2 grunts assisting) and then give any hit the tearing ability....

I think you will find massed lasgun fire will suddenly become more dangerous....

Formation Rules cover this quite nicely.