Hey folks, as mentioned in the initial thread , I'm working on a Dark Forces campaign.

Here is one of the two new heroes - Jan Ors

Starting Abilities

• Stealthy Insertion - Action: If there are no allies currently on the map, deploy up to one ally at the entrance token. The Imperial player gains threat equal to the ally’s deployment cost, but may not resolve an immediate deployment.
• Hide in Plain Sight - Action, 2 strain : Until the end of the round, you cannot be the target of an attack.

Jan Ors does not begin the game with a starting weapon. Instead, she begins with access to the Rebel Saboteur ally.

And here is her class deck.

Card Text:

• 1xp Advance Notice –Action: If the Imperial player spent threat during the last Status Phase to Deploy or Reinforce, you may choose a figure to become focused.
• 1xp Divide and Conquer – You may activate each figure in an ally group separately.
• 2xp Emergency Aid - Action: Choose an adjacent figure. That figure recovers 2 damage .
• 2xp Resilience – Apply +1 health to deployed allies. When using “Stealthy Insertion,” you may redeploy allies that have previously been removed from the map for 1 less than their original deployment cost.
• 3xp Cream of the Crop – Deplete this card when using “Stealthy Insertion.” You may deploy the elite version of an ally you have earned, even if you have not earned the elite version. If you have earned the elite version, you may deploy it for the cost of the regular ally.
• 3xp Onslaught – Ally figures attacking opponents that have already taken damage this round may apply +1 Damage and +1 surge to their attack results.
• 4xp Pinpoint Weakness – Exhaust this card while you or a friendly figure is attacking. If the target is in your line of sight, test insight . You may cancel block or evade equal to surge results.
• 4xp Cut Supply Lines (Version 1) – Exhaust this card when you defeat the last figure in a group. Reduce the Imperial threat counter by that group’s redeployment cost.
• 4xp Cut Supply Lines (Version 2) – Deplete this card when you defeat a unique figure or the last figure in a group. Reduce the Imperial threat counter by that group’s deployment cost.

Love this.

Onslaught seems way too OP, though.

Thanks DarkJodo!

I'd wondered about Onslaught... Is it clear that this only applies to ally figures and not to Heroes? Does that make a difference?

Cut supply lines seems broken.

It either disrupts the Imperial Player's playstyle far too much (can no longer get out big units) or has zero effect on them (they were deploying constant small cost units anyways,)

EDIT: Did you just photoshop these new cards or is there an actual card creator program out there?

How does Divide and Conquer work with movement? One ally activates for a move action, gaining 4 movement points. Do I have to spend them before activating the next figure in the group? What if I don't? Do I lose those movement points when another figure in the group activates?

I'm photoshopping new cards using the great template made by Tom Howard over on BGG. Available in this thread.

Re: Cut Supply Lines. I'm struggling with which version to go with on Cut Supply Lines. Also - typo. V1 should say "reinforcement cost" not "redeployment cost".

V1 is intended to hurt the Imperials a little at a time.

V2 is intended to be one huge cut, with no possibility of further damage.

I agree V2 may destroy the Imperial's core mechanic, and I'm leaning away from it. Seems OP to me.

Can you explain why you think V1 would have zero effect? If the heroes defeat a group of Trandoshan hunters, the Imperial threat counter is reduced by 3. What the Empire could have spent to reinforce those troops is now just gone, and with no benefit. Not a huge amount, admittedly, but it will hurt. And if the Heroes can do this once per round, over time it could mean the Imperials slowly lose the ability to bring out big guns.

How does Divide and Conquer work with movement? One ally activates for a move action, gaining 4 movement points. Do I have to spend them before activating the next figure in the group? What if I don't? Do I lose those movement points when another figure in the group activates?

Re: Divide and Conquer - As I understand the RRG, you must resolve both actions for one figure, and then both actions for the next figure in an ally group. So even now you must spend those movement points before activating the next figure.

Under the current system, a round activation must look like this.

• Jyn Odan activation
• Imperial activation
• Rebel Saboteur ally activation
  • Figure 1 activates and resolves all actions
  • Figure 2 activates and resolves all actions
• Imperial activation
• Gideon Argus activation
• Imperial activation
• etc.

With Divide and Conquer, it could look like this:

• Rebel Saboteur figure 1 activation
• Imperial activation
• Jyn Odan activation
• Imperial activation
• Rebel Saboteur figure 2 activation

There are a couple advantages to the latter, the most critical being that if you can have two or three activations left when the Imperials have exhausted theirs, you can get up to a lot of unchallenged mischief.

Darn, I was hoping to make a Mara Jade villian card.

Anyways, I'm confused about Cut the Supplies, please use normal stormtroopers as an example. Does it reduce the threat by 6 or 2?

Sure! TL;DR - It goes down by 2

Example:

Round 3. The threat counter is at 10 and the Imperial player is cackling madly, waiting for the Rebels to finish their last activation. In the next status phase, his threat will increase and he can deploy IG-88.

But, sadly it is not to be. On their last activation, the heroes kill the last two stormtroopers in a deployment group, removing that group from the board. The threat counter immediately goes down by the Stormtrooper's reinforcement cost (2). The Imperial player is still just short of what he needs for IG-88.

Hey Tocath,

Did you also use a template for the XP cards? Because the BGG thread only has the character template, right?

@topic: Great work. I will look over it over the weekend and see if I can spot something odd. I never played DF (only DF2) so I have limited experience with the theme

Jacenat, I created a new template since I couldn't find one. I'll upload it next week. Cheers!

Thanks DarkJodo!I'd wondered about Onslaught... Is it clear that this only applies to ally figures and not to Heroes? Does that make a difference?

That is clear. I just see a group of Rebel Troopers + Aim + Onslaught dealing a ridiculous amount of damage in one turn. I could see it a bit more fair if it was an exhaust to add +1 dam and +1 surge to this ally's attack - limiting it just to a single figure instead of a group. Plays well with the sabs, which seems to be the intent.

I look forward to seeing more of this! I love the theme you made for Jan! Original and fitting

Thanks so much to everyone for the feedback.

Great point, DarkJodo! I agree that Onslaught is broken. I designed a replacement that I actually like even more, and seems to better fit her theme. Thoughts? Is it clear that this enables a group to coordinate an attack, but at the cost of any other action? IE, to coordinate an attack, they will only be allowed one action this turn?

Also made a slight change to Cut Supply Lines to clarifies points of confusion around reinforcement / deployment cost.

Change Coordinate Attack to be a 1-2 strain exhaust this card ability for Jan that reads "exhaust an ally activation group to have each make an attack... etc." This eliminates a lot of confusion over what sort of action it is, gives it some cost but lets you get the jump on imperials by consolidating two activations into Jan's turn.

I get what you're doing with the shared best roll, but as written it's clunky. Why not just give every attacking figure a re-roll, since that's approximately as valuable (little worse on 3-group, better on singleton), and is much less confusing. Or give them all focus before their attack, which is roughly what IA values for giving up the move action it seems.

Might want to check the wording on Rebel Troopers bonus for not moving; make sure to specify that they still receive that bonus if necessary when you're using this ability.

Great though Arzoo. I'll take a look at the Troopers and try to add some additional clarity.

I'm concerned about the fact that both her hero abilities come at a high cost of threat and require an action. Also you might want to let her deploy allies within a couple of squares instead of at the entrance from where they'll often need a couple of turns to get into the fray.

I'm concerned about the fact that both her hero abilities come at a high cost of threat and require an action. Also you might want to let her deploy allies within a couple of squares instead of at the entrance from where they'll often need a couple of turns to get into the fray.

You actually gain an action overall by bringing in an ally with the one ability. I agree that only using the entrance is a bad deal on certain missions; maybe one of her abilities should be to offer the spawned allies a bonus move?

Some more thoughts:

I don't think having no starting weapon is a good idea; there's no reason she can't have an awful starting weapon, and it seems a little crippling. Early imperial firepower is weak enough to give the poorly armed heroes time to do damage, but the saboteurs are something the imperial player could wipe out. I'm imagining Aftermath, where the idea that you could wound all the heroes seems laughable, but wiping out a pair of 4 hp targets is doable and leaves the heroes with much less firepower to destroy the terminals than they normally would have. I'd say just give her a crummy weapon, like a blue-yellow pistol with nothing but an accuracy surge and pierce 1.

I'd reduce the strain cost of Stealthy Insertion to 2. The turn you use it, the ability nets you 1 action, and on later turns the threat should balance against the ally's future actions. Ghaarkan's charge nets you an action (more or less) and costs 2 strain. Precise Strike probably saves you one attack action as well, for 2 strain. Other abilities worth an action are generally 1-2 strain.

Hide in Plain Sight: it appears balanced, until you recall that in many missions the imperial player must wound all the heroes, and there's nothing stopping you from using it and resting every turn. In missions like Under Siege you could hold a tile forever with it. How about have it be something like "place a strain token near your figure", this token is removed if you move or attack, an imperial may interact with you to remove it, and you may not be the target of an attack while it's there?" Whatever you do, there must be some way to harm Jan; it should make you harder to attack, not impossible.

Divide and Conquer adds complication in that you must track activations of figures separate from their card, and honestly being able to gain tons of delaying-power with it seems like it would lead to very game-y behavior in general. I'd replace it with something else (maybe that bonus move for Stealthy Insertion spawns?)

Advance Notice: in my experience players hate trading an action for nothing but focus. Perhaps instead have it be something like "1 Strain: whenever an imperial figure deploys within X (3?) spaces of a figure, that hero becomes focused." This still fits the name very well, removes the slightly clunky requirement that you track last turn's actions, and makes it a bit more attractive to players without becoming too powerful.

Emergency Aid: this is similarly a bad deal, it seems. An action for 2 damage healed? I see that it's useful to heal allies that otherwise can't recover, but it's not worth an action. How about have it also remove a negative condition? This flows well with Jan's style; she supports the other figures by saving them the action it would take to remove stun/bleeding at the cost of her own action.

Thanks for taking the time to give such detailed feedback, Arzoo! Some great thoughts here. I'll deal with things step by step.

Some more thoughts:

I don't think having no starting weapon is a good idea; there's no reason she can't have an awful starting weapon, and it seems a little crippling. Early imperial firepower is weak enough to give the poorly armed heroes time to do damage, but the saboteurs are something the imperial player could wipe out. I'm imagining Aftermath, where the idea that you could wound all the heroes seems laughable, but wiping out a pair of 4 hp targets is doable and leaves the heroes with much less firepower to destroy the terminals than they normally would have. I'd say just give her a crummy weapon, like a blue-yellow pistol with nothing but an accuracy surge and pierce 1.

This was a very intentional design decision that I stand by. A starting ally + starting weapon, even a crappy one, seems overpowered. Yes, starting Jan without a weapon leaves the Rebels without a gun, but these kinds of trade-offs are a good thing. They force players to make difficult decisions and adjust their play style. The Imperial player certainly could wipe out the Saboteurs, and this is going to force the Rebels to learn when and when not to expose allies to Imperial fire, and when to concentrate allied fire on Imperials to remove them from the board. IE, in Aftermath, a smart Rebel team might send 3 heroes ahead to sweep out the Imperials. As the Heroes progress, the Saboteurs could well be destroying terminals behind.

Now, you have raised a problem for early levels, which is that Jan’s only action options are to bring in Allies or hide. That’s not great. I’m likely going to switch Hide in Plain Sight with one of the XP cards so that Jan has an option besides deploy, move, rest or interact.

I'd reduce the strain cost of Stealthy Insertion to 2. The turn you use it, the ability nets you 1 action, and on later turns the threat should balance against the ally's future actions. Ghaarkan's charge nets you an action (more or less) and costs 2 strain. Precise Strike probably saves you one attack action as well, for 2 strain. Other abilities worth an action are generally 1-2 strain.

It seems to me that this ability results in not 1 net action, but as many as 5. If Jan uses Stealthy Insertion to bring in Rebel Troopers, the Rebels now have 6 additional actions for a cost of 1. If anything, Stealthy Insertion is too cheap. I had considered putting this at 4 strain or two actions, but eventually landed here.

Hide in Plain Sight: it appears balanced, until you recall that in many missions the imperial player must wound all the heroes, and there's nothing stopping you from using it and resting every turn. In missions like Under Siege you could hold a tile forever with it. How about have it be something like "place a strain token near your figure", this token is removed if you move or attack, an imperial may interact with you to remove it, and you may not be the target of an attack while it's there?" Whatever you do, there must be some way to harm Jan; it should make you harder to attack, not impossible.

Great thought! I’d been struggling with this one, and for the exact reasons you state. I think this is a great solution, putting some restrictions on what Jan can do while concealed and giving the Imperial a way to discover her.

Divide and Conquer adds complication in that you must track activations of figures separate from their card, and honestly being able to gain tons of delaying-power with it seems like it would lead to very game-y behavior in general. I'd replace it with something else (maybe that bonus move for Stealthy Insertion spawns?)

I don’t find tracking activations separately all that complicated. It could be as simple as placing an activation or strain token by activated figures.

Advance Notice: in my experience players hate trading an action for nothing but focus. Perhaps instead have it be something like "1 Strain: whenever an imperial figure deploys within X (3?) spaces of a figure, that hero becomes focused." This still fits the name very well, removes the slightly clunky requirement that you track last turn's actions, and makes it a bit more attractive to players without becoming too powerful.

Another great thought. I agree that tracking last turn’s actions is not optimal. At my table that would certainly result in different recollections of what happened

I quite like the solution you provide here. Three spaces feels like the right distance. If it was cost of 2 strain and whenever an Imperial figure deployed within line of sight, would that be overpowered?

Emergency Aid: this is similarly a bad deal, it seems. An action for 2 damage healed? I see that it's useful to heal allies that otherwise can't recover, but it's not worth an action. How about have it also remove a negative condition? This flows well with Jan's style; she supports the other figures by saving them the action it would take to remove stun/bleeding at the cost of her own action.

I like the feel of this, but would love to hear from others. Is heal + condition removal overpowered?

2 strain for LoS would be alright, but she's rather high on strain usage and as a 4 Endurance character (might want to make her side mission reward increase her endurance) she's already got too many high-strain abilities. I'd recommend the lower strain for lower flexibility, though neither version would be overpowered.

I'd reduce the strain cost of Stealthy Insertion to 2. The turn you use it, the ability nets you 1 action, and on later turns the threat should balance against the ally's future actions. Ghaarkan's charge nets you an action (more or less) and costs 2 strain. Precise Strike probably saves you one attack action as well, for 2 strain. Other abilities worth an action are generally 1-2 strain.

It seems to me that this ability results in not 1 net action, but as many as 5. If Jan uses Stealthy Insertion to bring in Rebel Troopers, the Rebels now have 6 additional actions for a cost of 1. If anything, Stealthy Insertion is too cheap. I had considered putting this at 4 strain or two actions, but eventually landed here.

Keep in mind that this same math applies whenever the rebels choose to deploy an ally even without Jan, and those bonus actions are already balanced against the Imperial's threat gain for the ally. Even then it seems commonly regarded as a poor choice to deploy high-cost allies because they tend not to bring enough value to pay for their high threat cost.

So if that's your balancing logic, then maybe Jan's bonus allies should not give the Imperial such a big threat bonus? That is, either limit it to cheap allies (say, <=6) but the Imperial gets no bonus threat, or else let the rebels choose any ally but the Imperial gets 6 less bonus threat (not less than zero)?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see now what you're actually debating here -- on future turns the ally's actions are expected to balance with the Imperial's threat gain, but because Stealthy Insertion doesn't allow an optional deployment, the rebels get one round worth of bonus actions before the Imperial has a chance to spend that bonus threat. By that math, sure, rebels might get anywhere from 1-5 bonus actions depending what ally they choose to deploy. On the other hand, unless Jan does this on round 1, it's likely that the newly deployed ally will be in poor position to do anything useful on that first round -- they're likely to spend both of their actions just catching up to where they're needed, and then they don't really have bonus actions at all. So this is maybe another argument to let Jan deploy them near her instead of at the entrance.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see now what you're actually debating here -- on future turns the ally's actions are expected to balance with the Imperial's threat gain, but because Stealthy Insertion doesn't allow an optional deployment, the rebels get one round worth of bonus actions before the Imperial has a chance to spend that bonus threat. By that math, sure, rebels might get anywhere from 1-5 bonus actions depending what ally they choose to deploy. On the other hand, unless Jan does this on round 1, it's likely that the newly deployed ally will be in poor position to do anything useful on that first round -- they're likely to spend both of their actions just catching up to where they're needed, and then they don't really have bonus actions at all. So this is maybe another argument to let Jan deploy them near her instead of at the entrance.

Might well be, Taleden. I'd been concerned that deploying anywhere was unrealistic. After all, assuming they aren't paratroopers, they have to come in through one door or another

But, I could see an argument that part of what is represented in Jan's 3 strain is getting them unseen to her current location.

2 strain for LoS would be alright, but she's rather high on strain usage and as a 4 Endurance character (might want to make her side mission reward increase her endurance) she's already got too many high-strain abilities. I'd recommend the lower strain for lower flexibility, though neither version would be overpowered.

Just to clarify, Jan only has two actions that cost strain, which right now are her two starting actions. By comparison, Jyn Odan, also at 4 endurance, has 4 cards that cost strain.

I am leaning toward one of two options:

• 1 Strain: Exhaust this card whenever an Imperial figure deploys within three spaces of a friendly figure. The friendly figure becomes focused.
• 2 Strain: Use whenever an imperial figure deploys within line of sight of a friendly figure. You may give that figure focus.

Option is cheap, but you can only use it once per round.

Option two is expensive, but if Jan is unstrained, she can give two folks focus. Thoughts?

2 strain for LoS would be alright, but she's rather high on strain usage and as a 4 Endurance character (might want to make her side mission reward increase her endurance) she's already got too many high-strain abilities. I'd recommend the lower strain for lower flexibility, though neither version would be overpowered.

Just to clarify, Jan only has two actions that cost strain, which right now are her two starting actions. By comparison, Jyn Odan, also at 4 endurance, has 4 cards that cost strain.

I am leaning toward one of two options:

• 1 Strain: Exhaust this card whenever an Imperial figure deploys within three spaces of a friendly figure. The friendly figure becomes focused.
• 2 Strain: Use whenever an imperial figure deploys within line of sight of a friendly figure. You may give that figure focus.

Option is cheap, but you can only use it once per round.

Option two is expensive, but if Jan is unstrained, she can give two folks focus. Thoughts?

They're both balanced, I just think she's already got some high strain abilities (hide and insertion), so it's better to give some cheaper abilities too.