I frequently bring a sextant with me to tournaments.

Compass I could see, sextant would be a bit fuzzy? Actually, is there anything in the rules preventing me from using a compass to ascertain angles and distance? It isn't very sportsmanlike, but if it works it's at least impressive.

Well, you can only measure things with the range ruler at certain times. So, no, they don't ban using a compass or a measuring tape specifically. But I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to understand that you can't measure with something other than the range ruler whenever you want.

Well right, but during planning? If I just bust out one of these bad boys? Come on, that's at least going to unnerve the opponent.

As long as your eating sushi I'm cool with it.

As long as your eating sushi I'm cool with it.

That is the PERFECT cover story!

On the otherhand in the rulebook on p6 is states:

Players cannot use the maneuver templates to 'test' where ships will end up. ...they must plan their maneuvers by estimating their ships' movement in their heads.

That in conjunction with the Tournament Rules bit about no 'setup templates' seems to make the case that though it's not explicitly disallowed, a TO could more than reasonably conclude they were.

The tournament rules bit on "no setup templates" has nothing to do with this.

Looking at a reference image is not much different than looking at the templates while planning your maneuvers...

You're still estimating the ships' movement in your head.

I'm not saying I think this should be legal, just that it's really not as clear cut as you're trying to make it seem.

I'm not trying to say it's clear cut, I'm trying to say that based on things that are actually disallowed, a TO would be well within bounds to declare a notebook with images of deployments and movements they can safely make out of bounds for a tournament.

I'm pretty sure he means the maneuver reference sheet.

That is completely tournament legal.

I seem to recall this too, but where does it actually state that?

I just want to be prepared in case an opponent or TO challenges me on having a maneuver ref sheet.

Thank you!

isn't it in the rules that you're allowed to measure your deployment with any tools given (I.E. the range ruler/maneuvre templates)? I don't see this as much different as long as it stays in the deployment

Every single expansion comes with a table with all the maneuvers of the ship and a "players can reference this table at any time"-text.

I've come across nothing in the rule book, tournament rules, or the FAQ that changes this.

For me (as a non-native English speaking person) the discrepancy should/must be made between "maneuver reference sheets" such as the ones that comes with each ship type (and gathered/refined by Malmer) and "navigation aid" as outlined by a previous post where he/she asked if a folder with different map positions and maneuvers would be legal.

To me there is absolutely no issue with the former but the latter is unacceptable to me and I'd think most TO's I know would agree.

Meanwhile, a Follower of Set wouldn't be concerned at all.

Nor a ravnos, who don't mind elusiveness.

Has anyone ever had an opponent not let you use a printed maneuver reference sheet? I mean complained about you referencing something not FFG official. I would like to laminate and use

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/106743-handy-all-ships-in-one-maneuver-reference-card-ready-for-print/

but I'm afraid some people may see that as cheating even though it's the same information that FFG says can be referenced at any time.

I have such a card...2 sided with all of the ships on it. I put it down on the table after obstacles and state it for it for both me and my opponent to use.

Out of 10 events I've only had one opponent grumble about it. They used it, of course.

Why use a reference card? Asking your opponent whether they have certain moves is the perfect time to inject a little bit of doubt about their maneuver choices. I don't know how many times I've had someone change a dial that was already set.

Just curious about rules and/or how your event(s) handle this.

Using 3rd party reference material like the Movement Visualizations, or having a personal note sheet (physical or digital) with movement guides, etc.

For example, if I had my tablet and referenced one of the Movement Visualization guides while planning my maneuver dial.

Lets assume that referencing them does not slow down game play.

Are you asking if it's ok to have a 'play' book.

Kinda like what American foot ball uses.

I think I can see what you are asking and from what I can tell it's legal.

Some people can do this in their heads and can visualize where a, say, 3 hard turn left will put the ship.

As long as your not measuring anything on the table then you should be fine.

Just curious about rules and/or how your event(s) handle this.

Using 3rd party reference material like the Movement Visualizations, or having a personal note sheet (physical or digital) with movement guides, etc.

For example, if I had my tablet and referenced one of the Movement Visualization guides while planning my maneuver dial.

Lets assume that referencing them does not slow down game play.

Are you asking if it's ok to have a 'play' book.

Kinda like what American foot ball uses.

I think I can see what you are asking and from what I can tell it's legal.

Some people can do this in their heads and can visualize where a, say, 3 hard turn left will put the ship.

As long as your not measuring anything on the table then you should be fine.

Really??

As quoted previously in this thread from page 6 in the Rules of Play:

During the Planning phase, players cannot use

maneuver templates in order to “test” where ships

will end up. Instead, they must plan their maneuvers

by estimating their ships’ movement in their heads.

And no, it doesn't specifically prohibits 2 "play book" but using the (in)famous and much feared "weapon" known as common sense it should be pretty obvious that it isn't/shouldn't be allowed and certainly not in the spirit of the game.

And yes, by practice or shear natural talent some people have an advantage in estimating their moves but such is life.

A play book wouldn't be allowed over here I am pretty sure, and I fully agree

As quoted previously in this thread from page 6 in the Rules of Play:

During the Planning phase, players cannot use

maneuver templates in order to “test” where ships

will end up. Instead, they must plan their maneuvers

by estimating their ships’ movement in their heads.

And no, it doesn't specifically prohibits 2 "play book" but using the (in)famous and much feared "weapon" known as common sense it should be pretty obvious that it isn't/shouldn't be allowed and certainly not in the spirit of the game.

And yes, by practice or shear natural talent some people have an advantage in estimating their moves but such is life.

A play book wouldn't be allowed over here I am pretty sure, and I fully agree

I agree that a "play book" probably shouldn't be allowed.

However, that quote from the rule book just isn't relevant...

There's quite a difference between putting templates down to test where your ships will end up, and looking at some diagrams in a playbook.

I can definitely understand other players having an issue with a maneuver playbook. And thus won't bring one, being a cool and friendly opponent is far more important to me than winning at all costs.
I will likely make one and use it more like flash cards to help me remember the combos, but it will get left at home!

As a side question: what is one expected to do with the maneuver templates during the setting of dials in a tournament? In most friendly games they're just there laying on the table next to the play area.

As quoted previously in this thread from page 6 in the Rules of Play:

During the Planning phase, players cannot use

maneuver templates in order to “test” where ships

will end up. Instead, they must plan their maneuvers

by estimating their ships’ movement in their heads.

And no, it doesn't specifically prohibits 2 "play book" but using the (in)famous and much feared "weapon" known as common sense it should be pretty obvious that it isn't/shouldn't be allowed and certainly not in the spirit of the game.

And yes, by practice or shear natural talent some people have an advantage in estimating their moves but such is life.

A play book wouldn't be allowed over here I am pretty sure, and I fully agree

I agree that a "play book" probably shouldn't be allowed.

However, that quote from the rule book just isn't relevant...

There's quite a difference between putting templates down to test where your ships will end up, and looking at some diagrams in a playbook.

Interested in learning more about how you find one the few (only??) sections where it is strongly indicated that this is a "do not pre-measure or attempt to do so besides what you are able to visualize in your mind".

This is supposed to be a game "simulating" dogfighting in a 3D space but with 2D mechanics. I have absolutely no objections to the use of Vassal maps or similar for home practice and rehearsing but it'll be a cold day in certain place before I'll have it a game where I am to participate.

No one will be able to convince me that it would be in the intend or spirit of the game to leaf through play books during a game. What's next?? You bringing a small magnetic whiteboard in 1:6 scale of the 3' x 3' map with conveniently square cut outs and matching maneuver templates which you move around as play progress and "consult" during the planning phase??

Enough of this silly business

I agree that a "play book" probably shouldn't be allowed.

However, that quote from the rule book just isn't relevant...

There's quite a difference between putting templates down to test where your ships will end up, and looking at some diagrams in a playbook.

Interested in learning more about how you find one the few (only??) sections where it is strongly indicated that this is a "do not pre-measure or attempt to do so besides what you are able to visualize in your mind".

This is supposed to be a game "simulating" dogfighting in a 3D space but with 2D mechanics. I have absolutely no objections to the use of Vassal maps or similar for home practice and rehearsing but it'll be a cold day in certain place before I'll have it a game where I am to participate.

No one will be able to convince me that it would be in the intend or spirit of the game to leaf through play books during a game. What's next?? You bringing a small magnetic whiteboard in 1:6 scale of the 3' x 3' map with conveniently square cut outs and matching maneuver templates which you move around as play progress and "consult" during the planning phase??

Enough of this silly business

You seem to have missed the very first sentence of my previous post:

I agree that a "play book" probably shouldn't be allowed.

deleted

As a side question: what is one expected to do with the maneuver templates during the setting of dials in a tournament? In most friendly games they're just there laying on the table next to the play area.

Most people do this. I use this:

http://corseceng.com/templates/starfighter-templatedeck-holder/

Disclaimer: not an ad just an endorsement from a satisfied customer.

I agree that a "play book" probably shouldn't be allowed.

However, that quote from the rule book just isn't relevant...

There's quite a difference between putting templates down to test where your ships will end up, and looking at some diagrams in a playbook.

Interested in learning more about how you find one the few (only??) sections where it is strongly indicated that this is a "do not pre-measure or attempt to do so besides what you are able to visualize in your mind".

This is supposed to be a game "simulating" dogfighting in a 3D space but with 2D mechanics. I have absolutely no objections to the use of Vassal maps or similar for home practice and rehearsing but it'll be a cold day in certain place before I'll have it a game where I am to participate.

No one will be able to convince me that it would be in the intend or spirit of the game to leaf through play books during a game. What's next?? You bringing a small magnetic whiteboard in 1:6 scale of the 3' x 3' map with conveniently square cut outs and matching maneuver templates which you move around as play progress and "consult" during the planning phase??

Enough of this silly business

You seem to have missed the very first sentence of my previous post:

I agree that a "play book" probably shouldn't be allowed.

Beside assuring you that I did see it even before you past'n'bolded it for me I will not engage in a back and forth nitpicking on minute details or opinions of whether or not my reference seems relevant to you or not

Just curious about rules and/or how your event(s) handle this.

Using 3rd party reference material like the Movement Visualizations, or having a personal note sheet (physical or digital) with movement guides, etc.

For example, if I had my tablet and referenced one of the Movement Visualization guides while planning my maneuver dial.

Lets assume that referencing them does not slow down game play.

Are you asking if it's ok to have a 'play' book.

Kinda like what American foot ball uses.

I think I can see what you are asking and from what I can tell it's legal.

Some people can do this in their heads and can visualize where a, say, 3 hard turn left will put the ship.

As long as your not measuring anything on the table then you should be fine.

Really??

As quoted previously in this thread from page 6 in the Rules of Play:

During the Planning phase, players cannot use

maneuver templates in order to “test” where ships

will end up. Instead, they must plan their maneuvers

by estimating their ships’ movement in their heads.

And no, it doesn't specifically prohibits 2 "play book" but using the (in)famous and much feared "weapon" known as common sense it should be pretty obvious that it isn't/shouldn't be allowed and certainly not in the spirit of the game.

And yes, by practice or shear natural talent some people have an advantage in estimating their moves but such is life.

A play book wouldn't be allowed over here I am pretty sure, and I fully agree

I don't see how it would be any different from say, looking up the death blossom maneuver.

Sure you could have your first few turns planned out with a few variations based on how your opponent deploys but after that I don't see how some sort of play book would be all that useful.

Sure you could use it to help you visualize your options but it will still be an aproximation due to the fact you cannot put anything on the table.

The reason why Id say the play book is a bad idea is it would almost certainly slow down play.

Just curious about rules and/or how your event(s) handle this.

Using 3rd party reference material like the Movement Visualizations, or having a personal note sheet (physical or digital) with movement guides, etc.

For example, if I had my tablet and referenced one of the Movement Visualization guides while planning my maneuver dial.

Lets assume that referencing them does not slow down game play.

Are you asking if it's ok to have a 'play' book.

Kinda like what American foot ball uses.

I think I can see what you are asking and from what I can tell it's legal.

Some people can do this in their heads and can visualize where a, say, 3 hard turn left will put the ship.

As long as your not measuring anything on the table then you should be fine.

Really??

As quoted previously in this thread from page 6 in the Rules of Play:

During the Planning phase, players cannot use

maneuver templates in order to “test” where ships

will end up. Instead, they must plan their maneuvers

by estimating their ships’ movement in their heads.

And no, it doesn't specifically prohibits 2 "play book" but using the (in)famous and much feared "weapon" known as common sense it should be pretty obvious that it isn't/shouldn't be allowed and certainly not in the spirit of the game.

And yes, by practice or shear natural talent some people have an advantage in estimating their moves but such is life.

A play book wouldn't be allowed over here I am pretty sure, and I fully agree

I don't see how it would be any different from say, looking up the death blossom maneuver.

Sure you could have your first few turns planned out with a few variations based on how your opponent deploys but after that I don't see how some sort of play book would be all that useful.

Sure you could use it to help you visualize your options but it will still be an aproximation due to the fact you cannot put anything on the table.

The reason why Id say the play book is a bad idea is it would almost certainly slow down play.

The slow down is almost guaranteed and certainly it'll be a distraction and thus a possible/likely cause of disagreement when player one (looking up from his/her play book) says "Wait what did you you do/roll while I was looking through my book?!?"

Maps/charts are for pre-game rehearsal/planning but once the dog fight is on put it away and rely on your practice/experience/talent and be part of the game