I have posted some new images of the Series II miniatures for Dawn of War on my site, Wings of War Aerodrome. You can have a look at them via this link...

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?p=656#post656

Enjoy and fly safe,

Keith "Col. Hajj" Upton

Very, VERY nice.

I can't wait (OK, perhaps I can, but you get the concept)!

Thanx for the info! I am boycotting until a USAAF/AVG P-40 mini is done! It should have been in the wave 1! now it's not even in the wave 2 line up...

LewdDude said:

Bah -- make one of your own. P-40 minis. esp. AVG-marked ones, are a dime a dozen -- how often does one see Dewoitine 520s?

LewdDude said:

Lol, thats a bit odd.

The P-40 isn't the plane that did the most impact of the war, the P-51 was the real star of the american planes. P-40 wasn't even that good, It did some good things in indo china however. P-47 and P-38 are 2 of the planes that did better together with the F4U Corsair. P38 shouldn't even be in serie 3.

The P-40 did look cool but since it was outperformed by most other american fighters 5there is no need for Wow to make the model until they release a indo china pack.

If you really want a P-40 that much, just get a pewter plane.

Pour Le Merite said:

Bah -- the Corsair and Hellcat had to face actual opposition; by the time the '51 rolled around, there were no worlds to conquer.

LewdDude said:

The P-40 has been confirmed to be in Series 3 for Dawn of War.

csadn said:

Lol The P51 fought with people like Galland flying Me262. I wouldn't call that a walk in the park either. It all depends if you prefer the pacific or European theater.

But I like Corsairs too, those guys didn't have so fun in Korea however, Mig 15 must have been a nightmare to fight with. Great plane when it came. The P40 however wasn't even great when the production of them started. Sure, they were better than old biplanes but no match for the modern planes. They do look cool with a tiger mouth painted on them but that was basicly their only good point.

I will not say anything bad about the Hellcat either, it was the most succesful plane in naval history.

Pour Le Merite said:

With all due respect to Herr General Galland (who I met once, BTW ), there was maybe one Schwalbe for every *squadron* of Mustangs....

(Reminds me of an idea I had for a con event: All the other players against Me -- however, *they* get Nieuport 11s and such, while *I* get a Fokker D.VII.... > )

Pour Le Merite said:

And that's why the US had the F-86, among others.

But we're getting ahead of the time period.

csadn said:

Actually at the start of the war was the Us airforce Corsairs, Shooting stars and some Mustangs. And even the F-86 was not evenly matched against the Migs. I think a Korea war box for Wow would be a great idea. It was the last war of true dogfighting.

Pour Le Merite said:

The *Very* start of the war, perhaps; the F-86 was first deployed in February '49, a whole year before the Norks started getting uppity. (And the US prop-drivers scored a few kills on the MiGs, for that matter.)

The MiG-15 was designed for high-altitude work; it was rubbish at low and medium altitudes; the Sabre, OTOH, was designed exactly the opposite. Battles between the two usually involved the MiGs diving from on-high, making a firing pass, then hightailing it back to altitude; if the -15 got into a proper dogfight with the -86, the Sabre could turn more sharply. Scratch one MiG. (It didn't help that the US pilots had G-suits which worked, whereas the ComBloc types either didn't have working ones, or did not have them *at all*.)

I wonder how one represents GLOC in _WoW_.

csadn said:

It didn't help the migs either that the migs in the south were flown by unexperienced korean pilots. Over "mig valley" however they were piloted by russian veterans and the american Sabres did took a good beating there.

Rules gor blackouts and red outs are interesting even in WW2, particulary for the pilots of the Me 163 Comets if they ever add the plane. The G-belt (a very prmitive G.suit) was made for the Mustang pilots first BTW (or at least used in battle by them).

The F-86 did first reach Korea in december 1950 ( just a bit after a month after the Mig-15). And here is a quote from Wikipedia:

Early variants of the F-86 could not out-turn, but could out-dive the MiG-15, and the MiG-15 was superior to the early F-86 models in ceiling, acceleration, rate of climb, and zoom. With the introduction of the F-86F in 1953, the two aircraft were more closely matched, with many combat-experienced pilots claiming a marginal superiority for the F-86F. MiGs flown from bases in Manchuria by Red Chinese, North Korean, and Soviet VVS pilots were pitted against two squadrons of the 4th Fighter-Interceptor Wing forward-based at K-14, Kimpo, Korea.[16]

Many of the American pilots were experienced World War II veterans, while the North Koreans and the Chinese lacked combat experience, thus accounting for much of the F-86's success.[17] However, whatever the actual results may have been, it is clear that the F-86 pilots did not experience definitive superiority over the World-War-II-experienced, Soviet-piloted MiG-15s in Korean airspace. According to former communist sources, Soviets initially piloted the majority of MiG-15s that fought in Korea. Later in the war, North Korean and Chinese pilots increased their activity.[18][19] The North Koreans and their allies periodically contested air superiority in MiG Alley, an area near the mouth of the Yalu River (the boundary between Korea and China) over which the most intense air-to-air combat took place.

Anyways, a "Wings of war: Mig alley box would be awesome

Pour Le Merite said:

The "Beating" the Sabres took up there had less to do with the Soviet pilots, and more to do with being long-gone from their bases. That said, the Sabres still came out ahead.

Pour Le Merite said:

Ah, Wikipedia proof of what Churchill meant about "a lie travels halfway around the world before the truth puts on its boots".

Unfortunately, between the standard of ComBloc record-keeping (inaccurate at best; outright lies at worst) and the general muddle wars cause, it's almost impossible to get reliable figures; however, the best estimates I've found suggest that the Sabre outscored the MiG 6:1 in total, with that 6 making up 1-2 Russians, and the remainder Chinese or NK.

The only "advantage" the MiG had over the Sabre was its cannons, and even that was dodgy (the phrase you're looking for here is "swatting flies with a shotgun" very devastating, but only *if* you hit...).

Pour Le Merite said:

Anyways, a "Wings of war: Mig alley box would be awesome

Maybe.

csadn said:

Uhm, all information from both sides at the times were propaganda, the US also lied a lot.

Just look on how many north vietnamese the US say they killed in the Vietnam war. They "assumed" that for every body they found had the charlies dragged away 10 corpses. It was just a propaganda thing to prove to the people that they were winning the war.

The truth is always somewhere in the middle. But one thing that is true is that the americans did not have air superiority oiver "mig valley" but they had it over south Korea. The truth is also that the chinese and korean pilots were mostly really bad, some koreans even ejected at the sight of a Sabre.

Funny enough was the records from WW1 very accurate, at least about arial warfare. After that you need to read both sides figures and try to make sense of what you read.

I fear this discussion is slightly off topic now however.

Pour Le Merite said:

That, me droogie, is entirely the doing of one Robert McNamara, may he rot in hellfire. (If he'd been running Korea, Kim il-Sung would be able to fire nukes at Japan using a trebuchet.... ) The Western records out of Korea are incomplete, but not complete fabrications like the SE Unpleasantness gave us.

And yes, we have sidetracked a bit....

when did ww2 wave 2 models get involved with Vietnam?

nice planes anyway, i will be getting a few stukas and hurricanes, there is a video on youtube that show some of the planes painted and gives a release date of january 2010.

here is the link

Nice planes , I am looking forward to it. I wish we had more stockists in Australia of the minis.

Anyway, there is alot of talk about what plane is best and which should be released....... P-40 vs P-51 etc

Shouldnt we remember that war wasnt fair some planes were good and some were bad. Those poor suckers flying P-40's flying against zeros and being out manouvered at every point, they should be represented. The thing is that a P-40 was strong and could take the punishment that a zero dished out so that to me makes for a great tactical match up. It would be a pretty boring game if evry one just used the best planes that each side had.

Lets face it people, just like the real war it should come down to skill of the pilot and sometimes some good old fashioned luck.

Hooray for the Hurricane FYI like to see a 2c version in s=desert colours myself

Stubai said:

This is true however, have you ever noticed how no one ever wants to play the Allies in tank-combat games? Same principle.

It's helpful if one can use actual tactics, as opposed to "pray I can get in a lucky shot before he nickel-and-dimes me to death". For ex., if I'm using F4Fs against A6Ms, I bloody-well *am* using the "Thach Weave"; but if I don't have enough room on the table to do so why bother playing?

Yes I am with you on that, these are stratergy games there fore play all types and come up with strategies:-)

I love playing russian in tank combat and using T-34's speed to out flank the tigers w. who wants to just sit there roll good dice and win:-( boring