are you authorized to make changes to the floor rules? Because if so I believe the tie break should be removed (HP+world count). It's not a good idea to have a tie-break in a card game because it encourages people to manipulate that (like fairbanks did at gencon). The deck isn't unbeatable, but its mostly unbeatable, but more importantly than that it creates a non-fun tournament environment.

Highjack said:

....Tie-break exists for a reason. Rules are there to be manipulated. Will discuss with the others anyway.

I mean, I can't think of another game that uses a tie break system (everyone: feel free to chime in and make me look like an idiot) to decide games. I don't have any problem with you guys not wanting to change it, I just felt it was a poorly set up rule because it and it alone creates a tier 1 deck that is 0 fun to play against and makes tournaments run longer.

Highjack said:

Other systems are irrelevant, but I'm quite sure Yugi, Magic, DBZ etc etc all have tie-break systems.

As for 'tier 1 deck that is 0 fun to play': We've been complaining about WR since set 1. This is nothing new to us, since aggro finally got some **** use, and it gives us something new to complain about.

Everybody loves complaining

magic doesn't. I don't mean a match tie breaker like, if it's game 2 whoever won game 1 gets the match win. I'm saying purely for deciding individual games, if you goto time in game 1 of the match it should be a draw straight up. WR is not what I'm talking about, that's a decktype that's fine. I'm saying the stall deck. A world racer you might be able to do things to, this deck you play against and nothing you do feels like you're making any progress. When they're sitting at 50 life and slowly slogging through worlds and any dark cards you play aren't relevant, it's just awful. It also has just occured to me SWCCG had an individual game tie breaker, but that wasn't really relevant in that game. Again, I don't have a problem with you not changing it, it's not like lamp/pegasus where something needs to be done, I just thought I'd throw it out there for discussion.

magic does have a offical rule for ties.

right, that it's a draw, that's different than saying magic has a tie-breaker for games.

its a draw if the game can't be deterime after three rounds when time is called. and even then there is a point system for tournments which help clear the feild a draw is the same as a bye. so let say it round three pairings you have six players in the tournment. you have to win and a draw so you hve 5 points wins being a 3 points and draw being 2. that would mean that some one else has 3 or 5 points also depending on whether you got paired up or paired down. i could ramble on but ive made my point

comdieguy I love you but you are completely missing the point. I understand how the magic tiebreak system works, I've played pro-tour level magic, I understand the intricacies of it, that's how I know it's not even sort of relevant to this discussion. Let me break this down as plainly as I can. In Kingdom hearts, if not even 1 game is finished, a winner is still decided through this terrible tie-break. For that matter, if 1 game is finished and game 2 goes to time, there is still a definite winner of game 2. Do you understand why this is different from magic?

we still use that systm for are tournments cause we dont like then world plus heart tie breaker ruling and its not a very big problem usally when we play

comdieguy said:

He's not talking about your tournaments, he's talking about in general. And despite what people will tell you, my deck would usually win, and only had to resort to Tie-Break once at GenCon, against a player that it then didn't need to later on.

That said, it's a ridiculous rule. Having a system that says "you get 3 turns each" is not a tiebreak, because if it's not resolved, the game is a draw. And like Highjack says, I don't know of any other game that does something similar (IE, in Magic, it's not Deck Size+Life Count, or something silly like that).

well that would just be crazy if magic had to count decks and life for tie breakers but will tlk about this friday

comdieguy said:

Well, no, the point we're making is that this needs to be a fundamental rules change, not something that individual groups institute.

well when we have better op then i seeing it being bigger problem till than it will have to be solved in a group setting

comdieguy said:

it's not a huge problem, really, as there are answers to the heal spamming decks, they're just a little convoluted. You could always just declare that a deck without a win condition is stalling, and deem it an auto-loss, which fixes the big problem. My WR got up to about 60 hp against another WR at GenCon before time was called. I'd have won if he hadn't been running 2 gargoyle and 2 stealth sneak. In that scenario, we likely should've had a draw, but, given enough time, I should eventually win, as I had more draw power and would eventually luck into getting to a world when he wouldn't drop a gargoyle on it.

The reality is that 2 well designed WR decks will stall out on each other barring extreme luck situations.

when the next big op comes around such as in another year at gencon it will be a matter of what the judges have to say so in other words we can bother wttd on this till then i guess we have to deal with the lack of actual rulings by ffg for non card stuff

your deck had a win condition

Highjack said:

Well, yes. Yes it did. It's just more that the WR/WR matchup will result in a draw so often unless one of them gets absurdly lucky, or the other one is a bad player.

Highjack said:

YGO was first blood.

first blood meaning? (never played YGO)

haha. first blood means first person to lose life points loses. if you dont know what life points are then.... *sigh* basically your hp

but if its any consolation Roxas i thought it was funny

capncrunch said:

Was this actually part of the rules? Because that seems really stupid.

yeap thats how alot of tie breakers are dealt with

a lot of tie breakers? name 5

Highjack said:

Seconding this. I've played upwards of 20-30 ccgs, probably more that I don't actually remember, and I don't think I've ever come across this.