Fairbanks said:

I will be the first to admit I need to check mine...hence the reason I'm just letting this go. I've been like that a bit too much lately, so I'm just gonna take a step back for a bit.

It's all good, if I came across like that I didn't mean to - honest! But yeah, there's is no point arguing we have the same goal, to promote a wicked fun game like Kingdom Hearts, there's no point in alienating each other when the player base is what makes it fun.

The only reason I responded was becuase of the way you made it sound like I play my own game, I play at all sorts of levels, my decks are always changing, the more you try the better you become, and I had to defend that.

But seriously, try stopga in a deck ^^ Just kidding, I respect the type of deck you play, it is very strong.

I guess I have to apologize to everyone if I come across as being the source for 'this and that', I'm no better than the next guy at this game. That is my point, that there are innumerable strategies that work, and well. I guess it is just the way I present myself... I do have 'too' much confidence sometimes. Sorry.

fyi Fairbanks WR does best against your deck, I haven't been able to kill/lock it down. Enough answers to tricky dark cards though and 3-2-3-2-1-2 is working really well. It's all timing, and a lot of the times the wisdom form can seal your deal if an answer doesn't come up.

- dut

I would tend to say if you're not specifically running some meta to beat it, you're probably not gonna beat the fairbanks deck. The problem world racers run into against him is he cycles through his deck realllllllly fast (assuming you're playing it right) so odds are pretty good he'll be getting the good dark cards faster than you're getting the answers.

The big problem is a lack of an answer for Gargoyle, and the only answer for Stealth Sneak being Dumbo. This is why I went to time against Hayner, as he just kept dropping either gargoyle or sneak on me. It's tempting to throw in 1x magic, but at the same time, I'd sooner make it 2x dumbo, as then you can dig against the sneak and escape against the gargoyle.

also, sorry to hijack the thread?

haha, this did get pretty off topic, funny innit? The point is you don't need to deal with gargoyle/stealth sneak, this is a situation where you win by them not winning. Now in duts playtesting with your deck I would assume he doesn't impose a time limit so it misses a big part of this deck. As I mentioned in the original post it so elegantly exposes this flaw in the floor rules. Honestly there shouldn't even be a tie break, if it's game 2 whoever won game 1 wins, if it's game 1 or 3 then it's an outright draw. It's never a good idea for a game to provide an incentive to goto time. I realize that was really only relevant VS Hayner cause I believe against everyone else you won at least 1 game, but the point is you didn't need to and that's why the deck works, you don't need to win, just not lose.

mmm, I could not have put that better, you don't need to win, just not lose. I would've felt like a tool just abusing that though, so of course I had to run worlds....

dutpotd said:

This kind of bet is pointless, based upon false premises, and any point you could make with it would be ultimately invalid.

You're assuming that a noob's uneducated opinion is just as valid as an expert's educated opinion.

Now get 2-3 people saying "StopGa rocks" for every one person saying "Stopga is Garbage" and have a KH tournament to see who wins. Whoever reaches the top, that's who we'll listen too.

didn't think I'd reference Mindless Self Indulgence here, but it seems right:

You're telling me that fifty million screaming fans are never wrong
I'm telling you that fifty million screaming fans are ****ing morons

Stopga is an amazing ability with a ton of restrictions on it. That said, just over a year ago, I was running Stopra in an aggro deck, and everyone kept telling me that it was horrible and had no place. Then everyone started running it.

So, Sluppie, dutpot, simmer down.

Fairbanks said:

For the record...I never said you were dumb for running Stopra...I thought it was brilliant. So I stole it.

WayToTheDawn said:

Stopra is one of the best cards....EVER. You keep a low world count and you get to reuse that world....that is gold....pure gold.

Fairbanks said:

Ain't mad, just saying.

lol (at what this thread has become)

I ain't mad/(un-simmered) either, and of course Sluppie is right a mass of opinions means nothing. Sadly, the rest of my post showed direct contrast to that but was ignored, namely that I could have had people who have played against me in tournaments where I've used Stopga who could provide anecdotal evidence of it's non-garbage status when used at the right time.

My point wasn't that we should 'literally wager' or proceed (what Sluppie has pointed out would be worthless), just that when WttD asked for people to 'back him up' I thought I'd exaggerate that call in order to show how ridiculous and pointless it would have been...

Anyways, the discussion is over, we've conceded that WttD and others, for whatever reason, think I'm conceited and I, being opposed to this, fight back every so often. The truth being that I'm a very good Kingdom Hearts player and proven by record, but nowhere near the best (can anyone even isolate a best?) and that I come across like a know-it-all to some which is, of course, my own fault.

It is important to note that nowhere did I say Stopga is the be all and end all of cards, just that the deck I would have sported had I had time to play at Gencon this year would have included it, and possibly looped it, to my delight (see Hijacks other post) and later, in response to WttD using this as evidence to not listen to me, that it isn't garbage. It is also important to note I did so in the course of saying 'I wish I could have played' and while congratulating the players that did play, have fun, and do well - chances are they would have beat me too.

In any case, this all started in this thread when I tried to add to the OP's report by offering up some advice on how to deal with bad Valor drops (pooh lvl 0) which Highjack said he saw. Needless to say, the way I presented this information caused a more inflammatory reacation than what I wanted, I just wanted people to go - 'oh, that would work ^^' like some did and like many have before in my travels - i.e. my intentions were pure!

Maybe the next tourney I'm at I will use Stopga, maybe I won't. Fairbanks is providing the most level-headed approach to this, namely it is extremely hit or miss and depending on the deck, it's goals, and such, it may prove to be absolutley useless - i.e. auto-not-include.

Can you blame me for responding after having my use of a certain card be used against me as a 'don't listen to this guy - he's so stupid he uses this' argument. Note, I forgive WttD for doing that, and for not taking it back - he doesn't like me (I have this fact well documented, always good for a laugh actually) and as explained that is at least partly my fault, I come across poorly (or too well, i.e. I sound high and mighty or whatever equivalent is appropriate in said circumstance), and I know WttD's biggest thing about this game is fun-factor and his biggest pet peeve is players that are too competitive (and high on themselves), both of his opinions in this regard I respect and agree with and I certainly am sorry that his view is that I violate this.

Back on topic though - have Highjack and Fairbanks had the final match (officially, between them) to see which deck/player is better?

- dut

well i'm obviously the better player but the way the roxas deck was constructed it stood no real shot of beating him and if it could it would have to be in a setting with no time limit. The thing is the matchup all comes down to who gets the stealth sneaks, and since he drills through his deck much more effectively, it probably comes out him.

Highjack said:

Ah yes, both running sneak. I find invisible and sebastian/neon to be equally troubling, but it all depends. Sneak is easily the best, don't have to add anything else stopper. Owl with it works good if people are actually using Dumbo (very few I find do).

You guys should play, ^^ just to see

- dut

Okay, first of all, who am I?

I am Roughneck, part of the Edmonton Trio, the name Erroechi might ring more familiar to you, he also is in the Edmonton Trio......I don't really post much here anymore, but I have been following this thread for a couple of days now.

I am going to make a few little points here first.......am I gonna upset people? Likely, am I doing it on purpose? No......

First off, I've played Dutpotd a lot. Stopga works. it is hardly garbage......I've seen it work, it's not something I would run, but really, for the times it can work, it is worth it's spot in the deck.

Second, Way to the Dawn is the only one here (to me anyway) who sounds like he is on the top of a mountain.

Next up I will say....that it seems kind of rude to say that a lot of people playing this game don't know how to play it properly....that's just rude if they're reading it, and maybe it's even unfounded. It could be true, but you don't know all of us playing the game. I can name at least 8 local players that know how to play this game. Honestly, I can say that if those 8 would have been at GenCon that would have made 16 total, and at least 6 of the top ten would have been from those 8. Looking at the stuff that won last years Gencon I can say without a doubt that the trio would have taken the top 4 (Yes there's more then 3 of us)

I dunno.....Way to the Dawn, you come off like a big jackass who thinks he created this game, you seem to think that if you can't make something work then no one can. Your post earlier about giving Dut **** for not giving away the secret to loop magic, then you didn't give it away either....I could be wrong but it seemed to me like you didn't know how to do it. And from what I hear you refused to play Dutpotd at gencon.....and if you are such a lover of this game why not support it by buying some cards. I have also been lead to believe that you do not have set 4 (or didn't at GenCon) and were waiting for the boxes of cards you were recieving as a gift for orginizing the event.....sure that's nice to be given stuff, but supporting it is even better.

Whatever, to me WttD seems like an arrogant ******* who doesn't know everything he thinks he does, and deep down knows this but cannot accept it, and STOPGA CAN WORK OF YOU GET OVER YOURSELF AND TRY IT!

Anyway, yeah, losers/jerks liek WTTD are the reason I stopped posting here, and the reason I will not be back in the future.

Dut, in a few weeks we are gonna be hosting EdCon up here....nothing special, but there will be a Tourney for that belt I was talking about before....Nemo will let you know....if you're interested, otherwise we'll see you at that thing down there you were talking about.....unless I don't know how to play properly.......Actually, I've concocted a new type of deck I am anxious to try against you.

Rough -

nice arrogant posturing. maybe if any of you had shown up, it wouldn't be a hypothetical top 4, but you didn't, and you've managed to insult me doubly so, as I played and did well both years.

As to a lot of people not knowing how to play the game, look at the rules forum. There are people arguing that a card doesn't work a certain way because it "shouldn't," even though the card text and/or the rulebook contradict their "correct" meaning.

But above all, you managed to make the most volatile post in the **** thread. Good job, I'm sure dutpot really needed the white knighting buddy.

Fairbanks said:

Couldnt the people posting in the rules forum about the simple stuff they do not understand be kid's?
I don't see how he insulted you at allbut you take what you want to hear out of it. But he sure tore into Dawn which should be quoted for truth. Even though he left out that the same goes for Trotheal and Mr. Yogami they always seem to post as a team.

Mr. Incredible said:

If you are not going to contribute to the thread, dont post. Next one gets taken to the mods, I'm sure they can sort this out. Same goes for you Roughneck. WtD stated his opinion, and quite frankly I'm of the same opinion, there is a lot of set up required and while I don't find it impossible, I find it impractical, especially for a Roxas deck that has not way to play a Level 6 spell.

First off: I've never heard of you. Now WttD I've seen on three seperate KH forums, and those are the only 3 I've found. This one, another one, and the Universal TCGs one. Not saying there aren't more. Not saying I've found them all. Not even saying I've searched very hard. But I've found him in at least 3 different places and I don't think I've found you in even one.

Roughneck, it's not that I disagree with a competitive spirit. Not at all. Competition brings out the true nature of the game, and takes play to a whole new level. But that's beside the point. Stopga is actually less useful than Stopra and Stop for what it does, and is much harder to cast. In fact, it's only just barely above Blizzaga/Firaga/Thundaga, which are pretty useless cards all around. Stopga doesn't ensure a win in a challenge like Stop does, and it doesn't let you draw without your opponent interfering like Stopra does. All it does is stop them from drawing cards unless they have a Selphie Kairi combo going. They'll still have their friends and whatever they had in their hand.

Speculating on what WttD does or does not do with his own money is just retarded, not your business, and beside the point. Not to mention: running a tournament for a game at a major con = advertising for the game at a major con = supporting the game in ways a few dollars just wont. Speaking of which, YOU did not attend. I guess having some guy over the internet challenge your ego is enough to make you stop supporting a game.

And quite frankly, what I suggested was not pointless. If people think Stopga is worthwhile, let them actually try to prove it. Theorycrafting never has and never will prove anything. Practice is the only way to provide any sort of supporting evidence. Hence the competition.

In case you've ever heard of David Sirlin, he said it like this: "A competitive game, to me, is a debate. You argue your points with your opponent, and he argues his. “I think this series of moves is optimal,” you say, and he retorts, “Not when you take this into account.” Debates in real life are highly subjective, but in games we can be absolutely sure who the winner is."

And quite honestly, I've seen WttD construct nice decks, so if nothing else that proves he kinda knows what he's doing with this game. You on the other hand haven't proven anything about yourself except that you think Magic cards are still useful. Which really just tells me you don't have enough people running Phil in your meta. Or they aren't running him correctly.

Honestly, you and Dut remind me of some of my friends, who think they're the greatest Smash Bros. Melee players in the world. Thing is, they don't even know how to Wavedash, they barely understand positioning, and the best of them all just item spams really well. I know I'm hardly the best Melee player in the world, but I know what good looks like and it's not them. There are WAY better players than them, but they just don't know any better because they have never had a chance to face anyone better.

Besides, about the tourny well... you DIDN'T show up. So there's no point saying anything about what would've happened. You'd never be able to prove it unless you actually DID show up. Which you didn't.

Also, you ARE acting all high and mighty like you know some secret knowledge of the game. And your secret knowledge isn't worth much. I personally admit that I don't even know what "looping a magic card" means, though I have some theories. But I'm pretty sure I could wipe out your whole friend zone with a single Simba level 1 card or, better yet, Event card all of your HP away in a single turn. If you don't even know these game-ending tactics, don't come here with these silly little weak tricks thinking they're made of solid gold.

See what I did there? I hinted at something without telling you about it. And most of the betterr people here know I can do it to, and even know how it can be done, so don't try to act like I'm making up crap unless you want them to laugh.

Roxas said:

Excuse me while i quiver in my boots. I replied to a statement made by Fairbanks where as your reply to me looks for trouble so i'd appreciate it if you pester some other soul about your non-sense. And when you bother the Mods about this make sure they know this isnt the first time Dawn has been involved in such internet shenanigans with several other people but im sure they won't care because they have more important aspects to there jobs.

Mr. Incredible said:

You're excused Mr. Uncredible. Oh yeah, you were sooooooo innocent, you dragged two others into your Dawnslamfest (all three have both better records than you and more than likely more experience). People like you start with your "oh don't tell people to search", which is a FORUM rule, don't believe me check any of the Forum Rules threads on the boards and the sub forums. So since you have no idea what the topic was that sparked this (ie my nonsense) and I've posted actual on topic discussion, I'm going to tell you good day and unless you are going to contribute to the actual topic, just stop posting.

Mr. Incredible said:

Mr. Incredible said:

This isn't called "looking for trouble" to you? Wow...

Roxas is right. Cut it out.

What you pointed out, about WttD's "internet shenanigans" would hold some water EXCEPT for the fact that the ones you've mentioned are always around and alwways posting. Meanwhile you guys come out of the blue and start trolling in a group. Sounds to me like hypocrisy.

Roxas tries to stop this fighting as he always does. As it is in his personality to do. But you accuse him of "looking for trouble" when he is in fact "looking for peace". Meanwhile, you and your friends on the other hand are posting just to look for trouble. What, you think it doesn't look suspicious that all three of you have showed up all at once? All at the same time? Sounds to me like shenanigans. Oh, and hypocrisy.

And you guys ARE on a high horse. Both Dut and Roughneck came around saying "We are the Great" when quite frankly you talk nonsense. And you accuse WttD for being on a high horse when really he was just debating with you. Sounds to me like hypocrisy.

That's three counts of hypocrisy. And I didn't even have to look very hard. Look to your own faults before you start projecting your own flaws on others.

It was fun playing against you, Dut. One of these drafts, I'll beat ya

Roxas said:

Roxas said:

What's that smell? Smells like hypocrisy. Well if it walks like a hypocrit. What does my reply in a totally seperate thread have anything to do here? my simple stand there was that there is no reason to get angry at him for not searching because of the lack of the delet button it's not like he can delete what he already made so just answer him politly. No reason to be an ass-hat. Where is this rule you speak of? I dont remember clicking the little box saying i will always use the search fucntion when i signed up. Myabe i skimmed that part. I can pick out many posts in this topic that doesnt have anything to do with the topic.So by you replying to me only implement one thing, that your looking for an arguement with me.

And i added the other two because there all peas of the same pod. So why dont you take your own advice and stop posting. Even though i doubt you will because you seem like the type of person who thinks if they get the last word they win so go ahead i guess.

So now that a stray donkey has appeared...just shoot it so people who actually know what they are talking about can discuss the topic at hand.

Highjack said:

Overall this is an impressive record sir and I comend you for it playing Fairbanks myself (and lost). You and Fairbanks deserved the top 2 for both a deck that by all builds so not have and Fairbanks revival of WR that Aggro cannot stop without killing it off the bat.