If you haven't read part 1, I'd recommend doing so. Also, I apologize if this is posted in the wrong section, there didn't seem to be a place for tournament reports and as this is essentially part of a bigger article on deck building, I just figured I'd put it here.

So me and Fairbanks arrived at the tournament site early in hopes of playtesting. Tragically no one was there. Fairbanks deck (which I'll get to in a bit) was a bit of genius, but absolutely worthless to playtest against, so we just sat around for awhile. Eventually the first other competitor showed up and the deck finally got tested. It seemed really solid so I was feeling pretty good about this. All in all there were 8 people for the tournament (though 1 of em showed up really late so it's hard to count him). I apologize if I don't remember names or very many details from the games.

Round 1 vs Ethan running Valor aggro:

His deck seemed to be a pretty standard aggro affair. Good attack cards good friend cards, little bit of valor. 2 main things were in play here though: 1) aggro is at a disadvantage here, if they challenge every turn and I move every turn, the HP lose is canceling out and I progress towards winning. Valor fixes this, BUT, it became apparent to me that if I never try and fight back when he challenges me and save my oblivion/divine roses/samurais and just challenge him on my turn, I can knock valor form off the turn he plays it fairly consistently. 2) it became apparent to him (and me) that it hurt him to drop dark cards on my worlds. If they were things I could just clear by fighting, I might be able to gain 3 hp just from killing them, add in a move and there was just very little for him to do. I win this match fairly easily

1-0 (2-0)

Round 2 vs Fairbanks running the meta deck:

I guess you could call the deck a world racer, but really it's the perfect example of a meta deck. See he found a big gaping flaw in the tournament floor rules (if a match goes to time, the tiebreak is most hp+world count) and built a deck that just exploited that. It was really a brilliant execution of this and while a deck could be made that would beat this, it was such an unexpected thing there wasn't much for anyone to do. Of course it wasn't unexpected for me, but I wasn't gonna be a jerk and meta that specifically. I won't go into detail here at all cause it was incredibly boring, but basically he won game won and I just conceded game 2 as it wasn't relevant anyways.

1-1 (2-2)

Round 3 vs Hayner running a world racer:

So going into this I was of the impression that him and Fairbanks were running pretty close to the same deck, so game one I made no effort to track HP or anything. I pulled it out because in the end he couldn't handle my dark cards and while he was running stealth sneaks and gargoyles, I just ran away immediately and it wasn't relevant. By game 2 it had become apparent to me I could probably beat him by assuming the aggro role in the match-up. So I did that.

2-1 (4-2)

Round 4 vs Alex running valor aggro:

He had actually played against the deck before the tournament and the beating he received prompted him to switch form a Riku aggro deck to a valor one. Didn't help. This went largely the same as my round 1 match.

3-1 (6-2)

TOP 4

semi-finals vs Ethan:

More of the same from round 1. Except in game 2 he crushed me. So bad. Wasn't even close. He played a couple bambis first turn and got valor into play and that put me in such a hole I couldn't dig out. Especially because he anticipated my 1 big challenge to knock his valor form off so he held cards to stop me the whole game. It occurred to me that either of the valor players may have had a better chance if they had waited to drop valor form until they knew they would be able to protect it. But I don't know their decks well enough to really comment.

4-1 (8-3)

Finals vs Fairbanks:

So he wanted to play in a tournament at 2 and if we played it would time out and he would miss it. Prizes weren't relevant since we came together so through a highly scientific process we awarded me the win, yay!

Overall it was a good time, FFG kept the tourney going well and as always provided sick prize support. I ended up liking the deck quite a bit and have since put some thought into the ideal version (with an unlimited card pool) but that will have to wait for part 3.

Valor form should be played in conjunction with winnie the pooh lvl 0.

I didn't want to give out this tech, but there you have it.

Grats on your strong showing btw.

- dut

I'm almost certainly missing something, but I don't see how winnie would help things. That would just make then a base 0 attack and me a base 7 (assuming I have both pieces of equipment out).

Highjack said:

Don't worry...I don't see it either...dut lives in his own little world of Kingdom Hearts and doesn't really KNOW what works and what doesn't...he thinks Stopga is good for gosh sakes...when will you learn?

I've tested Winnie the Pooh in a Valor deck...aaand...it doesn't help all that much, sure it'll slow down a WR a bit by making them use more resources...but there's better cards that do that and in the aggro matchup, especially the mirror, your base attack stats are going to be the same most of the time anyway making it come down to equipment...which it would have anyway...there's better cards to put in that slot...like Alice for example.

And don't act like it was some big secret tech that no one knew about...we're not idiots here Garrett and your not the high and mightiest player who knows all these secret awesome strategies.

and for the millionth time....STOPGA....IS.....GARBAGE.

He said lvl 0, to stop a challenge when you lose. Really, in a valor deck is the ONLY place he belongs unless your environment is really heavy on the tink/heal meta, as you can run Pooh, and save 1-2 hp reactively, or you can tink and gain 1-2 hp proactively. reactive>proactive.

Stopga's a great card, but it's way too restrictive to rely on. Pretty sure that I'd be okay dealing with 8 hp of uninhibited loss when I have the ability to hover around 30 hp anyway...

I ran 1x Pooh lvl 1 in my deck just to hurt the aggro deck (make them waste resources), and because it's unbelievably helpful when your dark cards are CowG's and Cerberuses to have their player card zeroed.

ah, lvl 0, that makes much more sense, that's what i get for relying on my spotty memory of what cards do.

i guess everyone forgot about pooh lvl 0.... but it still can get tossed aside by tidus which is pretty much played often..

Fairbanks said:

Ah, now see, I completely forgot about the level 0 so I assumed that was a typo. I'm still not sure it's all that great though...a successful Aggro deck shouldn't ever be in a position where they'd need to stop the challenge. Worst case scenario you get blindsided by an Ultima or something, but that doesn't happen THAT often to include a whole card for it...he'd be perfect for a sideboard..he's a good sideboard card, but I stick by my statement that there's better cards to run.

As for Stopga...a lot of cards are "great" but when you have to setup a ton of cards to pull it off, those "great" cards become garbage and useless, like you said, it's way to restrictive to rely on (which he does). With decks like yours or Sluppie's in the metagame now, one turn of not drawing isn't going to set you back all that much. I'd also love to know how he does -8HP in one turn running a Light deck...the HP Drain deck I built could do 7HP best case scenario and that's if I got every thing to go off just right....I must be missing something here.

I was a bit harsh in my delivery there, I'll admit...but I stick by what I Said.

I actually really like pooh lvl 0 in a valor deck and heres why: just to play valor it's a three card investment so you have three cards left in your hand, and +5 attack on the feild, on their very next turn they will have (barring the ducks) 6 cards to your three (I'm thinking rather abstractly here but you guys should get the idea) and it's very common that his 6 will be bigger than your 3 and the +5 so you had 1 successful valor challenge and he got rid of your valor and is now in the driver seat. if you have pooh, he'll have to commit at least something to make you use it so then you'll draw 6 fresh cards and he'll be stuck with just a couple, allowing you to easily win the next challenge and usually have left over resources if he challenges next turn, which could be the difference to keeping your valor out and dominating the game, as opposed to just trading blows. worst case senario it saves you 1hp. best case: a tide turner and game winner.

GTrogi said:

I see your point here for sure, but that is also assuming you have zero cards in friend support as well it seems, or that the three cards in your hand are useless. I guess I'm thinking more in the terms of the deck I want to run right now where I would have the ducks, I would have been limiting their resources, drawing extra cards and getting a +5 if they challenge me ....so Pooh for me in this scenario still isn't worth it. Overall though, I can see where it could be useful, I can...but it's not some uber secret tech or anything out of this world great...it's still situational imo.

lol, I didn't say it is super secret tech - just a tech I haven't seen used yet at the competitive level and therefore didn't want to give out (obviously I did, becuase I did give it out).

But yeah, lvl 0 wasn't a typo, and I know you stick to what you said, you are still narrowly pursuing the most efficient lockdown deck possible wheras I am still pursuing the most flexible win in every situation deck possible, the latter naturally assumes that I don't disregard 'any' card in 'any' set, i.e. winnie lvl 0, i.e. stopga, i.e. aero...

As much as WttD thinks it is lucksack pulling off stopga it really isn't. It doesn't take a lot of setup to use one stopga in your deck... with the King and 2-3 lvl 4 donald ducks (a lvl 4 genie maybe to boot) you are going to grab it when you can use it, if you can't use it you don't grab it... simple. Toss in Chip and Dale among other things... and you have the control to grab it when you can play it and when it is advantageous.

Stop (all puns intended) bashing on something you haven't tried sucessfully, stopga is not garbage - and no, I'm not going to tell everyone how to loop it.

I didn't say one turn either, I said unanswered, when your opponent isn't drawing cards (their game state isn't changing) it is unanswered... Valor on, turn 1 = play stopga, challenge (-2),

turn 2 = grab stopga back, play stopga, drop wyvyrn, challenge (-2),

turn 3 = (they lose -1 can't kill wyvyrn), play event card (-1), challenge (-2)

= 8 unanswered damage. This is just the highest I've got it in gameplay, and I haven't played much btw. If you drop the wyvryn or more, loop the event card, or grab the stopga to play a 3rd time you are looking at 10+ damage...

Needless to say, if you are playing a guy who has a lot of heal then you world race, grabbing stuff like lvl 4 simba or worse with your donald instead... Hence balance = choice = stopga.

- dut

edit: Fairbanks is dead on, stopga is great but unreliable, and probably 3/5 games with it in my deck I won't use it, I will still win 2/3 of those games, but it will be with world race or conventional lockdown - friend kill + duck or two. I don't rely on any one card, ever. This game is about selective shutdown, only a fool would rely on a single thing that if shutdown would ruin his or der day.

WayToTheDawn said:

Kinda reminds me of me when I first came here. The way I interpreted the cards went way against whatever the rulings were, and plus I actually misread a few of the cards and rules or forgot what they did over time or something. I was actually playing a completely different game than anyone else.

dutpotd said:

I would love to sit here and pick this post apart...but I'm just too lazy right now and don't feel like arguing with you so I'll just say that this is the same argument that will go around and around and around in this game forever. Your trying to do too many things at once by trying to build a deck that can handle anything, whereas I'm building a deck that is specific to what I believe people are running in the current meta. This is an argument that will never have an answer. End of story.

btw it's not hard to figure out how you loop a magic spell, and keeping it a secret isn't going to win you any extra games.

Also, Stopga IS Garbage (someone else wanna back me up here?) and just because I believe you have no idea what your talking about and I don't agree with you, doesn't make me a fool. Thanks though.

~Mr. Dawn

I'm not trying to argue, just saying I understand why you'd stand by what you said - i.e. I understand our differences.

Keeping something unsaid isn't me trying to win more games, I don't care if I win/lose/tie, I never have. The point is that by alluding to people needing to figure it out I am driving everyone to think about the new possibilities the latest set provided us with, becuase I haven't seen anyone loop spells yet, nor have I seen it talked about on the forums yet. So please forgive me for trying to have others push their own envelopes.

I didn't call you a fool, you aren't a fool. I said that by you telling everyone I 'rely' on something that you are essentially calling me a fool, to which I take no offense but still need to point out that I know what you are trying to tell people.

Stopga is not garbage , anyone who's played me will attest to that, and since I've travelled beyond my hometown to play, and frequently, I have played many more people than you (in person and probably online as well).

In fact, for everyone person you can find to come in here and say stopga is garbage I can probably find 2-3 more who would attest to it not being garbage. Wager?

- dut

If you turn a magnifying glass the wrong way, you can successfully fry a great many ants over a long period of time. Of course, those ants can just walk out of the way of the beam. Maybe you'll still kill a few, but a better method, if you're attempting to kill ants, is to turn that glass around, focus that sunlight, and take them out one at a time.

Dutpotd, I see what you're trying to do, and it's how I came up with the idea for my deck at GenCon. It was designed as the most efficient way to counter the opposition and win games. I just don't really get why you're even running Valor form and trying to kill them with the stopga abuse, unless your desired victory condition is hp loss (which you've expressed is not the case). Rather than try and win in any way, wouldn't it be better to be able to have answers for any deck out there (or, better yet, be able to ignore other decks!) while pursuing a single victory condition?

It was this thinking that led me to my GenCon deck. I guess I'll throw it here, the rough outline at least.

Sora lvl 1 (4/1/8)

2x Wisdom Form

lvl 0

Kairi (promo)

2x Tidus

The King

Chip and Dale

lvl 1

2x Donald

Cid

Pooh

Magic/Friends:

3x Bambi lvl 3

2x Simba lvl 3

1x Simba lvl 4 (probably ought to be lvl 3)

5x Tinkerbell (1 lvl 1, 2 2's, 2 3's, I think)

1x Dumbo lvl 3

In retrospect, I should've been rocking a Pan of some variety, but whatever.

Attack Cards:

Oblivion

Ultima

Dark Cards:

3x CowG

2x Cerberus

2x Stealth Sneak

1x Dragon Maleficent

worlds:

3x DI lvl 1

2x Disney Castle

3x Monstro lvl 1

2x Timeless River

1x End of the World lvl 3

WayToTheDawn said:

Quoted for truth

There's a big difference between saying Stopga is garbage and saying Halloween town Sora is garbage. One is possibly the worst card ever whereas the other has a potentially game breaking effect, but is clunky and unreliable. So for my money I don't think I'd say Stopga is garbage, but I wouldn't call it playable either.

Highjack said:

If your car's ignition wasa clunky and unreliable, wouldn't it make sense to replace it with one that works more consistently? Just because a card has potential use doesn't mean it's not a garbage card. Especially one that's slow, requires a lot of matenience and it inconsistent. I'd call that garbage. Though, granted it is better than HTS.

@Dutpotd:

"lol, I didn't say it is super secret tech - just a tech I haven't seen used yet at the competitive level and therefore didn't want to give out (obviously I did, becuase I did give it out).

But yeah, lvl 0 wasn't a typo, and I know you stick to what you said, you are still narrowly pursuing the most efficient lockdown deck possible wheras I am still pursuing the most flexible win in every situation deck possible, the latter naturally assumes that I don't disregard 'any' card in 'any' set, i.e. winnie lvl 0, i.e. stopga, i.e. aero..."

Actually I posted a decklist with Pooh lvl 0 2-3 months ago, and I was actually the one who brought up the point of using it and Sora lvl 1 as the player card in Valor decks. Ha ha, I can't believe you claimed the moral high ground on that last statement. wow, the fallacies never cease to amaze me. So what if he is trying to make a control deck, that doesn't mean he isn't considering every card for his deck as well as any other deck in the metagame. Part of being a smart player is knowing every card and as you said, WaytotheDawn is a skilled player. In reality Dutpotd, you are the one narrowly trying to make bad card usuable in your deck. You even admit later on it's unreliable.

As much as WttD thinks it is lucksack pulling off stopga it really isn't. It doesn't take a lot of setup to use one stopga in your deck... with the King and 2-3 lvl 4 donald ducks (a lvl 4 genie maybe to boot) you are going to grab it when you can use it, if you can't use it you don't grab it... simple. Toss in Chip and Dale among other things... and you have the control to grab it when you can play it and when it is advantageous.

Stop (all puns intended) bashing on something you haven't tried sucessfully, stopga is not garbage - and no, I'm not going to tell everyone how to loop it.

I didn't say one turn either, I said unanswered, when your opponent isn't drawing cards (their game state isn't changing) it is unanswered... Valor on, turn 1 = play stopga, challenge (-2),

turn 2 = grab stopga back, play stopga, drop wyvyrn, challenge (-2),

turn 3 = (they lose -1 can't kill wyvyrn), play event card (-1), challenge (-2)

= 8 unanswered damage. This is just the highest I've got it in gameplay, and I haven't played much btw. If you drop the wyvryn or more, loop the event card, or grab the stopga to play a 3rd time you are looking at 10+ damage...

Needless to say, if you are playing a guy who has a lot of heal then you world race, grabbing stuff like lvl 4 simba or worse with your donald instead... Hence balance = choice = stopga."

Sure, if your opponent does absolutely nothing to your board, hand and/or worlds or plays phil or escape. Also, how do you plan on playing wyvern turn 1/2 on your opponent? if they play a lvl 1? what if they don't play a world? You can't turn 1 Stopga and you can't effectively loop stopga whereas they can turn 1, pinocchio, phil, removal for donald or a dark card on your world to make you use cards and thus slowing down your engine.

As for your absurd leap of logic, let me sum it up. If you can't aggro your opponent, just switch to WR and win, this is why balance is the best deck and why stopga is good. uhm no...what if you draw WR cards when you want to go aggro and what if you drew Aggro cards when you are WR'ing? A straight WR or aggro deck won't have this problem. How can you honestly say that balance is best when you admit to 1.) not playing much 2.) not being active and 3.) the cards you are running in your deck are not as efficent as other cards.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

dutpotd said:

Well I can tell you why no one is talking about it on the forums. Two reasons. 1.) As Sora_Yagami has stated...most people that play this game are bad at it, so I doubt hardly anyone has thought of it...and 2) Looping spells is almost as garbage as Stopga...your running cards specifically for that combo...this game moves fast, setting up a combo is only going to slow you down and help you to lose faster. This further backs up my point of Balance not being the best...your doin' too many things at once *see the above post for further reasoning on why Balance isn't any good.*

dutpotd said:

I'm not calling you a fool and what I'm trying to tell people is that you do not have all the answers to this game, you do not know these special card combos that make you a better player and no one should look up to you as a good player like you seem to want them to. In your posts you imply this sort of high and mightiness (not revealing combos you think are good and things like that...you can say it's because you wanna push people to be better all you want, I see through it.)...heck, talking to you in person and observing how you play...you exude this cocky demeanor as well. I'll give you credit for thinking outside the box and trying to come up with different ways to win, just don't present these ideas like they are gamebreaking.

dutpotd said:

First of all, how do you know how many people I've played?...I can see what you mean by saying that though...your disguise slipped a little there.

Second of all, I'll gladly take that wager because it doesn't matter how many of your friends you can get to sign up for these forums and back you up, it won't make Stopga any less garbage.

Oh Stopgas I never find it useful back then because of Phils and Phils are still out there so....magic = no, no. attack = of course, it's common sense. Setting up your plan to use Stopga is going to take way too long, either ur opponent has Phil on the field, or you have to wait until you draw it, or you can't use it cuz you don't have Donald on the field(who is like the only friend who has 6 MP)...so I'll give anyone mad kudos for pullin that off despite all the rejection it has in the game XD

First of all, I'm not high and mighty at all. There's little point in me saying that becuase I can tell you've had that in your head forever and ever and for whatever reason I can't tell. Besides that also leans on the personal side of things to much, and although it appears most of your hate for me comes from that, we aren't talking personal - we are talking cards.

Sora, I didn't know you used pooh two months ago in a deck when the new set wasn't even released and if you said it would be good with valor form kudos to you. From what I saw from Highjack's response and people losing challenges with valor form on I thought it hadn't been posted out there. This is what I saw from real life play at tournaments and with friends in Calgary, Indi, California, and Ohio - none of them had thought of that until I told them. For that reason I'd thought I'd mention it here too, not at all trying to rain on your parade, no one is ever the first to think of something.

What I meant by I don't play much is that I haven't run the Stopga deck more than 9 or so games, so the 8hp in a row thing isn't fine tuned and shouldn't be seen as a min/max, that is all I meant. Any number of people can attest I play quite often.

Of course I don't have all the answers to the game, but you saying I 'rely' on stopga when you haven't even seen me play with a stopga deck comes across as you calling me a fool. Sorry if I took it the wrong way.

You don't set up the stopga combo... it is there when you need it. A balance deck is all about being flexible and being able to do what it finds most appropriate and at the right time - timing is everything in kingdom hearts, it is why I like the game so much.

ftr, in the stopga deck I run 1 stopga and no other magic cards, why - becuase of phil as the most recent poster has said. Magic is very dangerous without multiple valid answers for phil, of which there are only a few and most of them just introduced in the last set.

I don't ever present an idea like it is gamebreaking, that is your impression of it. Obviously stopga is gamebreaking (especially if you loop it) once you play it sucessfully, playing it sucessfuly is a whole nother story, and doesn't happen every game.

How can I prove to the masses that stopga isn't garbage? What would ungarbafy it? All I see are a bunch of theorists who haven't played with it becuase it seems impractical on paper, and to all of the points posted they are good ones. At the con I had wanted to run back to my room to get my deck to play you WttD but you said you didn't even have a deck, nay you didn't even have set 4 yet? How am I supposed to prove anything to anyone who isn't willing to learn?

All I want to do is come onto the forums and help players realize that the game is flexible and that any and all cards have uses in the right situations, and that becuase of that we shouldn't disregard cards like stopga and winnie lvl 0. Instead I am faced with immediate backlash becuase one select member thinks I talk from on top of a mountain. The same member who a post before said most players were 'bad' players...

Very nice deck Fairbanks, I built it just now and it is 1-1 with my balance (obviously not a good measure I am playing both), but I can tell it is extremely well thought out.

- dut

It's designed as a slow burn. It should, in theory, win out most of the time, it just might take a while. The tinks are there to make sure it gets the win if/when it goes to time. Ended the game with 58 hp against another WR...

Also, Mike, see what I said about gazing into the abyss. *sigh*

Sora did actually mention this a few months ago. I remember talking with him about it at the clubhouse when we were trying to build up my Valor Strike deck.

As for Stopga, I personal don't like it. It may have an it's advantages but I dont see it being that great of a card when it requires a lot of set up.

Also Hijack, why did you hate me in the first place...not cool man, not cool.

dutpotd said:

I had a long, drawn out post...probably too long, coming back at you...but ya know what? I don't care anymore. This is dumb...you'll never understand what I'm trying to say, your too darn stubborn and I'll never admit I'm wrong for the same reason...so whatever. I'm leaving it be, there's just no point.

But for the record...I'm not the only person who thinks you speak from "on top of a mountain"...I would never have come out on this limb if I didn't think there would be support...

Look, do I need to make a list of us that probably ought to check their ego at the door? I mean, I don't feel like I'm always that way, but I am often enough.