The group I belong to that meets at a FLGS is switching to WWII with the new minis out. We played our first game of DOW after a WOW game and a new player introduced himself and said he'd be interested in playing DOW with us.

I hope we dont drop playing WOW and was wondering if anyone else noticed alot of grounded Sopwiths while ME-109s growled overhead? (Not that I blame them)

We will play through our campaign so no grounded planes here. But we might do a WW2 campaign once this one is finnished.

Necronis said:

Don't worry. I am sure DoW has a new popularity because it is new. New minis are out, a fresh new feel to it.

Once WWI starts moving its gears again you will take back to the skies with you biwingers.

Around here, _DoW_ is not looked upon fondly -- of course, seeing your 17-HP unit take 17 pts. in one shot....

I agree: DoW is getting attention - from myself included - as it is new and brings up some new rules to the table.

However, I'm certain to go back to WoW in a bit. It's not a strict "either/or" but more of a "which one tonight?"

I think DoW is going to be a little more popular just because that time period is more popular. I don't see WoW disappearing though, I think people will go back and forth between the two. We are going to finish out our WoW campaign and then I'll start looking at DoW more closely. But until more minis come out for DoW, it will not get played much around our store.

DoW just had a new box set and mini set released, so I think it is only natural it is getting more attention now. WoW is due some releses this fall and will get more attention then. Both are great games and very fun to play, so most I know do not do an either or,but many have both.

WWII has had my attention more lately for these reasons, but once some new WoW stuff comes out we will be playing that more again.

I hope more planes for WOW come out before the Stuka does. As of now I dont have one but if the Me109s have a Stuka to escort I wont be able to not ditch my Sopwith for a Spitefire. The group has alot more WW1 planes but a Stuka? I'm only human.

Necronis said:

I find your fixation for the Stuka weird.... Give me a good old Me 262 anyday instead.

As Chuck Yeager said about the 262, "The first time I saw a jet, I shot it down."

LOL!!!

The more the WWII collection grows, the more I love this game!

E

Im a visual creature- got into this game after the models came out and picked my plane based on the color scheme. As long as its dog fighting I think we can keep the group centered on WOW, but when a few guys start throwing escort scenarios out there for the group- well, lets just say Ive got my Spitfire already picked out.

ejacobs said:

Lol Funny. The interesting thing is that the 262 probably beat Yeager to the sound-barrier, one broke it in 1944 during a dive to help a friend in trouble. Computer models have showed that it was possible so it probably happened. Everything points to that the 262 was flying faster than the sound earlier than the X-1.

I still prefer WW1 but WW2 is fun too

Pour Le Merite said:

There are a number of claims of breaking the barrier before Yeager, even his record doesn't claim to be the first to ever go through the barrier - he was however the first to demonstrate it properly in level flight, guaranteeing control and breaking the barrier without breaking the plane - the level flight outdoing any of the war based claims and the demonstrating it bit being the reason he is credited over Welch.

myrm said:

Yeah, he was the first breaking it in level flight. But that was not what I said. Breaking it for the first time is what counts in my book, and surviving it of course.

We can all discuss this without coming anywhere but I said a M262 broke the sound barrier during a fight and then returned home years before the X-1. That doesn't really make the 262 a supersonic fighter but it could and did actually break the soundbarrier even though it probably risked the pilots life.

Pour Le Merite said:

Just because you said it (or for that matter, the guy who made the claim originally said it) doesn't make it so.

csadn said:

There have been some research on it and computer simulations prove that it is possible. That and several witnesses should be enough.

He reported what happened when he landed (and in the report it is exactly like when you break the barrier). He didn't have much of a point to lie about such a point in the middle of a war. Sure, we can always doubt it but it is possible and also likely.

First: The following is *NOT* meant to imugn your reputation -- it isn't that I don't believe you, it's that I don't believe *them*.

Pour Le Merite said:

"The map is not the territory" -- and a computer simulation isn't reality. I could list any number of projects where "the math" said it was possible, but in reality it didn't work.

And I could also provide a laundry-list of cites demonstrating the complete unreliability of "eyewitness testimony", but it would be simpler to just let you look it up for yourself.

Pour Le Merite said:

Given the Nazi propensity for Lying, and that the effects of Mach-1+ travel were known before the actual event (wind tunnels, etc.), it's more likely this was an attempt at propaganda, and/or misinformation ("let the word spread that we have a fighter which can travel over 200 MPH faster than anything the enemy has; maybe then, they'll back off"; but then, Adolf's bunch were never known for their solid grip on Reality).

Like folks say on the 'Net: "Pictures, or it didn't happen."

Agreed, and that line about Adolfs bunch having a loose grip on reality has to be the understatement of the century!

kaufschtick said:

Past a certain level of Stupidity, words fail.

And my posting a "Facepalm" Demotivator here would be annoying (and considering my complaints about posts full of pics, hypocritical as well ).

csadn said:

After Willy Messerschmitt's death, the former Me 262 pilot Hans Guido Mutke claimed to be the first person to exceed Mach 1, on 9 April 1945 in a Me 262 in a "straight-down" 90° dive. This claim is disputed because it is only based on Mutke's memory of the incident, which recalls effects other Me 262 pilots observed below the speed of sound at high indicated airspeed, but with no altitude reading required to determine the actual speed. Furthermore, the pitot tube used to measure airspeed in aircraft can give falsely elevated readings as the pressure builds up inside the tube at high speeds. From Wikipedia.

"The airspeed indicator was stuck in the red danger zone, which is over 1100 km/hr.

I noticed that rivets began popping out of the tops of the wings.

The airplane began vibrating and shaking wildly, banging my head against the sides of the cockpit.

After diving about three miles I again regained control and was able to return to base.

On the runway the mechanics were very surprised by the appearance of the airplane, which looked as though it had been shaken by the hand of a giant."

www.vho.org/tr/2003/1/Chelain69-71.html Here is a page discussing it. True or not true, this is not a nazi propaganda thing and as I said: It is possible. And it is something that are still being discussed by engineers right now. it may or may not have happened but don't just think that the pilot was a nazi so it can't be true.

Somehow this thread got hijacked, but no matter.

It is possible that the Me-262 broke the sound barrier, but without a better account than the one we have, we may never know. I tend to discount the claims of others that this was mere propaganda, as the propaganda machine of the Third Reich had broken down by this time; Hitler had a mere 21 more days to live in his bunker. As alluded to by others, Welch broke the sound barrier in an F-86 prototype before Yeager, but he, like the german, was in a dive. Yeager broke the barrier in level flight.

It's like arguing over whether the Wright Brothers were actually the first to fly...maybe they were, maybe they weren't, but they documented it correctly.

Pour Le Merite said:

OK, I see what happened to him. No, he didn't actually break the sound barrier -- at least, not entirely.

If you can find a copy of Martin Caidin's _Fork-Tailed Devil: The P-38 Lightning_, he devotes an entire chapter to the problem the P-38 had with compressibility in high-speed dives. The quote you cite matches point-for-point descriptions of US test aircraft which experienced this phenomenon. Part of the phenomenon involves *sections* of the airflow past the wing going supersonic, which causes the buffeting and damage described; as well as the effects going away once he'd dived to lower altitudes (three miles being some 15,000-and-change feet).

(If I can find my copy, I'll see about citations.)

After a few (very) quick games it seems everyone still wants to play WOW for the main part. Since we take out the Explosion Damage card so our games play longer I guess we're into the dogfights and survivability of the WW1 version. Although I did pick up a Spitfire.

And I think we're going to tinker around with the DOW Ace abilities.

Necronis said:

Hmm, ignoring that card could be an ace ability... Something like "Luck". Richtoffen himself got fuel all over him when his fueltank was hit but it didn't start to burn so ha was able to land with his engine turned off.

Personally I love the original, DOW, added some cool concepts to the game that feel like an improvement in technology, rather than just pasting a WWII theme over a WWI game, such as throttle rules and 2 phase turns. But after playing it I think I prefer my Sopwith camel, to the Spitfire any day. And while WWII is certainly a more popular Genre that WWI, I think that it is also one of the original game's strengths, being that there are plenty of Second world war games, but in the main stream Wings of War is is one of less than a hand full.