DagobahDave said:

So there's still hope for you then, and with the Emperor's guidance we may yet guide you to the light!

jadrax said:

On average there are two sides. Me not counting extremely positive remarks is just the same thing that im not taking extremely negative remarks into account (you know where some moaners have threatened to boycott FFG's products altogether, not mentioning any names).

ON AVERAGE (you know what "average" means don't you?), the negative remarks are disproportionally negative in contrast with the sparse positive remarks, who are IN GENERAL a bit more sober...

Ron B. Stard said:

jadrax said:

jadrax said:

More or less right -- but per a couple of the editors of Hogshead -- they were "pressured" into giving it up --- or threatened.

But, as I only have the word of the editors to go on, maybe you are right.

Nahuris

Varnias Tybalt said:

Dreary_Angel said:

Dreary_Angel said:

I will endevour to avoid it... but it's just this attitude above, that anyone more optimistic about the game is able to see the information 'under a more logical light'. How's being optimistic more logical than being pessimistic? What I have read about the game makes me pessimistic about the game, and that is based on my logical opinion. To generalise, the doomsayers are not in fact any more emotional or illogical than the 'positivists', they just have come to different conclusion on base of the scant information available. I find it disparaging to call us angry or illogical simply because we're not too keen on this game. I have yet to see any logical arguments which would actually refute my opinion about the game.

Ron B. Stard said:

So there's still hope for you then, and with the Emperor's guidance we may yet guide you to the light!

You just might.

Cheers!

Regarding these wound cards...

I wonder if this means that critical hits will be randomly assigned as far as body part injured and severity. I hope not, especially if that means that the advanced armor system is eliminated. It also just makes sense that the more damage you do over what the opponent can take, the more deadly the critical hit. It's not going to be as cool if it's totally random.

Nahuris said:

Blue Wizard said:

How so? Or what makes you say that?

Nahuris said:

No, we didn't. Some people might have gnashed their teeth over the internet but many of us loved it.

1) Magic system that actually followed the colours of magic system that had been mainstream Warhammer Fantasy since the 90s.

2) Being able to cast a lot and having those spells be useful, even as an apprentice.

3) Cool and flavorful spells instead of generic fantasy rpg stuff.

4) Balance provided by Tzeentch's Curse.

5) Easy record keeping instead of constantly adjusting spell points

6) Reasonable career progression and those annoying learn spell rules gone.

Not saying I disagreed --- or even agreed --- just that Warhammer has been though a lot of changes and flux since the beginning.

Everytime a new army came out for the battle game, there were pages and pages written on the forums about how this destroyed "canon" in the RP --- and how it needed to be ignored, ect.

I would estimate, from what I read, that it was about a 50/50 split over people for and people against the new spell system. I brought it up precisely because it got the same response as the dice and cards are getting with this version...

The version of Warhammer I run for my group has enough house rules that It really doesn't matter if they make a new version or not.

On a final note --- something I learned with the change from Advanced DnD over to 2nd edition those years ago --- RP is still the same, regardless of the system used to handle the combat aspect. Whether it's Warhammer, Runequest, DnD, Rolemaster, ect.... in the end, the rules really only cover combat, and spell effects within the combat setting. Even non-combat spells (very rare in Warhammer) had defined durations..... ect. RP should transend the combat --- so why does it matter what the die system is like?

And for those people who are going to argue about the usage of skills --- it really honestly is no more than a form of combat --- whether you and your sword overcome the orc... or you and your lockpicks overcome the lock.... or you and your words overcome the guards desire to toss you in a cage really doesn't matter. The die rolls are only there to resolve uncertainty in the game.... the RP is almost never handled with mechanics. Every time I have seen a game system tout a mechanic that supposedly enhanced RP --- I have gotten a good laugh out of it.

Nahuris

Ron B. Stard said:

I say logical, because most of the comments "against" this new edition are just shouting out what someone do not like, not exactly supporded by actual logic.

As I always (or most of the time at least) say, everything i write is my own, personal, opinion, i do not want to tell people they have to think like me, i just try to present people with a point of view they MIGHT not have taken into consideration.

Anyway, my post was not to say that pessimists should just shut up and that optimists are right on all the line, it was just to point out that "fanboy" is really a useless word, and an abused one, in situations like that.

I would really like to find someone, some "pessimistic" one, who has a solid argumentation to present, and I would love to confront my view on this upcoming game whit his.

Dreary_Angel said:

Oh I see, you're generalising, like I did with the whole fanboy thing? Ok, how about we both try to avoid generalisations?

In my opinion I too have presented valid arguments why this game will 'suck', and nobody has confronted my views on this game either. Amazing, isn't it!?

Blue Wizard said:

I think it may work a bit like the HeroQuest system with Attack and Defence dice.

Something like the Dwarf rolls 4 Attack dice determining 3 hits, the Orc rolls 3 Defense dice and determines 2 hits are uneffective. The result the Orc loses 1 Wound. Armour may well just increse the number of Defense dice rolled, so for example an unarmoured Orc may roll 2 Defense dice and a Fully Armoured Orc may roll 6 Defense dice.

Foolishboy said:

This has been the same feeling I have been getting ---- maybe not a bad idea..... but what happens if you lose some of the die (anyone with children had better consider this from the beginning)'

Nahuris'

Ron B. Stard said:

Ron B. Stard said:

I might just have lost the post you're talking about, among all the others... being 6/7 hours ahead of the usual time when people post in US forums might make a little difficult to keep track of all the replyes...

If you like, I will be pleased to confront my opinion with yours, you'll just have to wait a few hours since here is quite late...

Is there a reason people keep double quoting other people?

If that's the case, then the advanced armor system and the hit location system are most likely eliminated, would be my guess, and the critical hit severity and location both probably also. I can see why people feel it is a step away from WFRP and a step closer to Warhammer Quest.

Woops...meant "critical hit severity and location probably also randomized".

Ron B. Stard said:

Are you really going to stand by that statement?

All of your arguments have been discussed. I'm not saying that your opinions are wrong, but they have been addressed and confronted with arguments that are just as valid.

You're making it very difficult to speak directly to you because of your abrasive and dismissal tone.

You know, I've noticed that the trolls from the last few days are gone. They're gone. Apparently the moderators are here and they're doing their job. You've probably got one of your snide posts left before they come down on you. Fair warning.

Because I'll be the one who reports you. I thought you'd have cooled down by now but you're continuing to troll. Play nice or go away.

jadrax said:

Yup. It's some error in the messageboards. I've encountered it several times myself. It occurs when you try to click the "publish" button and you get a warning message about something, this in turn duplicates the quoted text into the document.

Perceptive as I am I usually try to delete the duplicated quote so only one quote will show up, but if you're in a rush writing it and only consider these warning messages to be annoying and then not giving them much thought, then I guess you might miss this.

Another interesting post from Erifnogard on rpg.net about the dice how they can tell a story:

"I don't remember mentioning before that one of the neat effects of the dice is that because you get different color dice from different sources (blue for native ability, green for conservative stance, white for fortunate circumstance/tactics, etc) you can read your dice results with a bit of flavor text built in. For example, my priest chooses to conservatively heal the trollslayer and is in a nice clean inn with plenty of rest and food for both parties I would have my ability dice, a couple of which are swapped for conservative dice, and several fortune dice representing the favorable circumstances. If I succeed, which dice I succeed on tells me a different story. If I succeed primarily on my conservative dice my cleric can snidely point out how lucky the party is that I insisted on getting the smelly dwarf to the inn so I could properly treat his wounds in a proper setting. If I primarily succeed on fortune, I can loudly sing the praises of the gods for favoring my endeavors so. Could I do these things anyway? Sure. The dice just give me a quick story to work with if I want it."

Some other snippets from James Knevitt in the same thread:

"Talents have been made totally awesome. When you pick up an appropriate Talent (for example the Trollslayer has slots for two Tactics talents), you can either use it yourself, or you can add it to the Party card (if its compatible), which means everyone in the party gains the benefit of the talent while they remain with the party. It looks like there's at least three different types of Talents: Focus, Reputation, and Tactics."

"The keywords on the top of the Career card and the top of the Party card work the same way. When determining whether you can advance into a different career, you match up the keywords in the two Careers. The more matching keywords, the easier it is to Advance. It totally eliminates the old "entry/exit" method, and I think this is a more organic, fluid method. Likewise, the keywords on the Party card reflect the kind of party it is, and the kinds of party members you might have, since the Party card is chosen by the group AFTER you create your characters. There were also sly hints that parties may be able to advance in the same way as characters in future expansions, perhaps getting slightly better abilities on the card."

"The only ones compelling a group to use a given Party card are the players themselves; they are the ones who get to choose the Party card, not the GM."

Also, it appears that the V3 timeline has been moved to before the Storm of Chaos happens. Sounds good to me.

And finally, a party sheet:

'cool down' in an RPG. (...GM may add one recharge token to an action card...)