Traveled to Gen Con expecting to get my hands on new Rogue Trader RPG I've been anxiously waiting for and.....it's sold out...frakking tons of Dark Heresy stuff no really frakking tons of it but nooooo Rogue Trader it's gone. Ohhh it'll be out in four weeks I was told...ummm maybe next time you plan to release a new product at the biggest gaming convention in the states you may want to consider bringing some of the oh I don't know...books. Hey maybe you didn't plan to release at Gen Con and just wanted to give a taste then....well then maybe next time you space the books out over the 4 days...and not just blow all of it in one day. Hey what do I know I'm not a marketing guy...just one of your customers oh wait no I'm not since I couldn't get the book.

Also you may want to consider running a couple of games of Rogue Trader free play adventure during the 4 days of gaming and maybe you did but it wasn't in the event guide of the program. But then again why do that you didn't have many of the books for sale and you wouldn't want people to play the game and then want to buy it and then not be able too.

I mean come on guys really wtf...you have tons of the board game stuff going on but only seminars on what Rogue Trader is once each day. I'm baffled I really am and I want to buy the game but can't cause I didn't rush in the vendor room at 10 am. Now I have to wait, like everyone else, for the regular release but boy did you guys miss a huge opportunity to get word of your game out...well I think a huge opportunity since it's a gaming convention and all. Hey I could be wrong about all of this stuff...I wasn't around the FFG booth long after I found out the book was gone...but I did leave extremely disappointed.

So basically you're upset that other people bought it and you missed out? How is that a bad thing on FFG's part?

Maybe I am misreading your post - so forgive me - but aren't they meant to sell out? How does FFG predict how many copies it needs?

From what I've heard basically anything first available at GenCon has sold out within the first hour of it being available. In the case of the BSG expansion, they held some copies for the second day, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had done that with Rogue Trader as well, but those copies went just as fast as the first day's supply did.

As for why they didn't have more Rogue Trader-related activities on the docket, you have to consider the logistical differences between board and card games and traditional role-playing games. Board and card games have a rulebook, and a more-or-less known length of time for the game. A role-playing game, being open-ended in nature, means that even with a pre-written scenario, you could end up running for one group of people for the entire day. It just isn't feasible from the standpoint of "give as many people as possible a taste of our product".

The part of his post that caught my attention was the, wait 4 weeks for more, part.

Is it really going to be another month before more copies become available?

My favourite UK vendor (who is rarely wrong) lists the date of availability as 31.8.

Some other online retailers give a range of 28th to 31st as well.

If you check the CE forums and somewhre around here I think the topic is called "When do I expect shipment" or something like that Jeff from FFG states that the logistics of GenCon were taxing and were only able to get so many fresh off hte presses for basically a taste. It is not the true release date, well at least not in the sense of distribution. It was summed up as basically the bigger orders for direct vendors would be seen proccessed about ten days after GenCon.

Well, they took the money from my account yesterday for the Collectors edition and I live in the UK. Hopefully this means they're getting ready for shipment and I thought I read somewhere that both the collectors and normal editions would be available at the same time... or maybe I was mistaken.

Only the Emperor knows for sure

This is ridiculous. On the forums of the company that makes this game, no one knows where it's going to be available. My own estimate is next Tuesday, but since thatr's from Amazon that holds no water

Tullio said:

I have a feeling that nobody within the company knows exactly when it will be available...

I believe the problem stems from the fact that RPG books are not the most popular books in the world, which means that each print run is smaller than for mass-market books. In my (limited) experience with other companies, this means that you can send everything to the printer, get an estimated delivery date, and then have a larger, more urgent, and more lucrative (for the printer) order bump it back by a few days to a few months. It's business.

I have a feeling that just getting the few RT books that they had for GenCon was like pulling teeth (and far more expensive than a "normal" run).

When Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy are doing massive print runs, then you can expect more exact release dates.

Until then, they will probably remain "elastic".

I wonder if FFG ran with a "one copy per customer" policy at their booths when selling Rogue Trader rulebooks?

Because there's nothing as cheesy as these greedy people going to gaming conventions buying several copies of a product that has been pre-released for just that convention, only to sell it off at a higher price on ebay, or these other fellows who don't even bother showing up at the convention (paying the entrance fee and so forth) but instead get one of their attending friends to buy a copy for them.

The one copy per customer policy when dealing with limited numbers at conventions is pretty fair and decent.

Varnias Tybalt said:

I completely agree. Everyone who is keen should have the chance to get a copy.

Just to clarify a couple of things, in case anyone's interested that is, I am absolutely disappointed I didn't get my own copy of Rogue Trader, but not in a whiney way just that I guess my expectations were wrong kinda way. I thought that they would've had plenty to go around since this is one of the biggest gaming events of the year. I thought new game line...intro at Gen Con...huge success. Again there was a crap ton of Dark Heresy stuff everything out for the game and lots of multiple copies. But no Rogue Trader...well not after the first hour probably. I don't understand why you wouldn't have a ton of new copies of your brand new game at the biggest gaming event of the year. People can talk about publishing numbers and this is a small run and blah blah blah...they should've planned for that and re-planned and planned again...there should've been no way they could've run out of copies in the 1st day it smacks of poor logicstical planning. Someone mentioned how would they know how many to bring? Well did I mention the crap ton of Dark Hesery stuff...someone had to guess on that. So it appears there is a way to figure such arcane numbers out. However, there could be behind the background factors that prohibited such a thing...but there should've been a clear and concise way to convey to the fans what their expectations should be. Since I don't visit every board every day I thought that they would've have plently of copies again because new game line and Gen Con is the best opportunity to get as many copies in as many hands as possible. Therefore again extremely disappointed because my expectation to get the game at the best possible time to get it was woefully wrong and no idea that the best possible time to get it actually wasn't.

That being said my post also referenced the visibility of the game at the con...which is minimal. Three, if my count is correct, 1 hour seminars discussing what Rogue Trader is...at 3 pm...right in the middle of a ton of events...really in the middle of the frakking day and no one at the booth in the area talking in up...well to be fair no one I saw. Come on FFG this is Gen Con and one of your new RPG's you should've had at least a person in the area to discuss the game. To address the one concern about con play with unfamiliar game FFG produced a Quickstart rules and adventure. I'm wondering why there weren't any sanctioned events based around playing it. There should've been several sessions a day playing the crap outta this adventure. The reason I say this is that it's quick start adventure and it was designed to be played at the free RPG day. It's perfect for a con and not one...not even one was officially done according to the event book. This also disappointed me because if this game is to survive it needs players and a great way to get players interested is to demo your game. True not everyone buys it from a demo but at least it talked about. They have a demo why wasn't it demo'd? If this wasn't true why were there tons and I do mean tons of demo's for the FFG board games. This disappointment is in the range of do these guys really know how to do this right disappointment which again is different than whiney disappointment.

I'm so looking forward to Rogue Trader it's crazy but come on FFG what the heck you're at Gen Con and the game is basically no where...you can't buy it and you can't play it...well you can play it if you pick up the free adventure booklet tossed onto the top of a table that's not manned by an employee to say hey look at this free adventure for this great new game we have.

Hopefully, now you understand why I was extremely disappointed at this great chance for this...at least so far...great game. I want it to succeed I want us to all share in the wonderful setting FFG has created but I also wanted you to know that our great new game got a bit of the shaft at the best possible venue to show it off...the convention where games are played nearly every moment of the four days.

Thanks for reading

Sorry mate, but still seems to me that you have a huge sense of entitlement. FFG said that it was only going to be selling small numbers, since RT only went to print recently, and with it being so popular, you should have fully expected it to sell out. Most vendors do on the first day of Gencon, usually in the first couple of hours. This is nothing unusual.

The other thing to consider is that they do not plan or develop games to match with Gen Con, although some have had hte fortune of ending or being released at Gen Con like the new version of Vampyre. The other thing you have to consider is there was lots of DH stuff because it is not new so it does not sell out as fast. They also had a longer time to print a surplus for core books and as for hte new stuff they sold out fast on that too. As mentioned before a rpg takes far logner than a simple board game and is pitch variable in length. Even hte intro game can take ages. Hell I made my run three times the given length because of factors the party members threw at me and things I decided to take liberties on for example.

Plain and simple they had enough and you will have to wait like hte vast majority of us on these forums, especially how do you think many Europeans feel. The best and fastest way to have gotten a copy was to pre order as those are the first to be printed and reserved. Expecting to drive to a convention for only one item is always a bad experiance. You go for hte environment and other sights, and if you can get to the book well then good for you Anywho thats the end of my rant.

I was going to write a bunch of stuff again clarifying the point I was trying to make but decided since it appears some of you think I'm whining cause I didn't get mine screw it. Boo hoo I didn't get mine whine whine whine. Totally forget the fact that I was trying to say I thought FFG missed a huge opportunity by having their game available at Gen Con it's totally about me whine whine whine. I clearly don't know anything about production schedules and sales oppurtunities I didn't get mine whine whine whine. Totally forget the fact that Rogue Trader free adventure books sat on a table with no one around saying here try this great new game while 20 ft away scores of people demo'd other FFG games it's totally about me not getting my copy whine whine whine.

I will now have to wait like the rest of the plebes to get a copy of the game that no one seems to know the delivery date too instead of getting it at the easiest place to get it from handed directly to me by an FFG employee whine whine whine.

I hope those out there reading truly understand what I was trying to say in my previous post. FFG thanks a bunch for making the game, truly, and I will buy my copy when it does eventually become fully available I can't wait but apparently I'll have too.

Thanks for reading.

The fact is, I agree with Doom and not the rest of you.

It is about entitlement and upholding release dates. Boo hoo to FFG if they were too cheap to keep to their statements and declarations.

The announced last year "Rogue Trader, release date will be GenCon 2009", they have said it repeatedly over the last year "GenCOn 2009!" They never once said "for one hour on friday!" or anything of that like.

It was bad planning by FFG and Doombot has the right and responsibility to call them on that.

I personally am sick of companies that say one thing and then cant hold true to that announcement. And then people say things like "well they have a small staff, or money, or time, or give me quality over quantity!" To hell with that. Give me accuracy over "oops our bad!" They know their financial and workstaff limits when they make these statements.

Seems they just need to start aimng on the side of Caution. Wouldnt it be better if they said "Out Fall 2009" and then surprised the gaming would with a sneak peak advance release at GenCon? Then we would all be like "Wow, FFG is the shizzieist, wish I was there to get my mad copy of RT! Dawg!"

Instead we all sound like a bunch of beat dogs expecting dissappointment and willing to roll over! In gave these guys a $120 check for a book that I have no clue when it will be released. I deserve to be talked to a bit.

Thank god they didnt do a pre-sale release of WFRP 3E collectors edition.

Except the same goes for pretty much every game that has "Released at Gencon!" on it... because it's not really, it never is. What it means is that it'll be unveiled at Gencon for those who can get it before they run out of stock, and then the public release will be at a later date. It's a standard thing to do, and it's not going to change.

Anyways, as I've pointed out in other threads, most stores in the UK now have a release date of 28th August for Rogue Trader.

MILLANDSON said:

That's very true. If the game only went to print recently, there won't be an unlimited amount of copies. And you (the OP that is) can whine all you want about that "someone should've planned for it", because it just isn't feasible. The game has taken a while to get done, and it's not like Gen Con is going to postpone the convention only for FFG to have more copies printed. And in all fairness I'd rather have them take their time making a good product rather than rushing it in order to sell as many copies as possible att Gen Con.

If you were really that keen on getting a copy, you should've showed up the first day as early as possible and marched right away to the booth. That's what I would've done, instead of just assuming that the vendors would've brought enough copies for me to lesiurely buy it any time I wanted.

Don't assume things. Assumptions will always lead to that you miss out on things...

Peacekeeper_b said:

You do realize that stunts like that will generate the same amount of whining right? If they just sneak released a few copies without telling people, people who didn't attend Gen Con will be pissed off because they didn't get any hints or warnings that there was an opportunity to buy a copy at the convention, because if they knew it they would've gone to Gen Con and done just that.

You can't please everybody you know. And as for accurate release dates, yeah it kind of suck that they have to be so inaccurate. But at the same time, they did hold true to their word that Rogue Trader was released at Gen Con. The stock just ran out...

Varnias Tybalt said:

Not me, I wouldnt go to Gen Con even if it was attended by two dozen naked playboy bunnies, a free beer for each attendee and a copy of Rogue Trader for each participant.

Gen Con, IMNSHO, is a pretty $#!tty con and I was pretty disappointed that they chose this Con to attend but not Origins.

But personal tastes aside, I do understand that you cant please everyone. Trust me.

But (and this is my perception) far too many people on these forums are willing to just roll over on a second's notice and say the same thing every time such as "Id rather they not rush it", "I prefer quality to quantity", or "Id rather wait for a good project later then a bad one now!" Seriously, we know how 55% of the game works, its called Dark Heresy, and the other 45% about only half of that will be total if at all new.

Id rather they be accurate or even announce a release date, then that have to go online to some store and see their supposed release dates.

When will RT be out, only when I actually have my $120 copy in my hand will I even believe it is coming out.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Well, me choosing that standpoint is simply for logical reasons and not for fanboyism. I want a solid product instead of having to print and add several pieces of paper of erratas to it...

I don't know they were fairly clear to those who read their shipment logs, order of recieved and procesing begins the 9th for those who ordered before the 11th, the rest after the 19th. Also stated it will take ten days psot Gen Con, the26th, for the first pre orders to meet their owners. Major distribution follows that to the stores who made bulk orders. I am in no way being a fanyboy or rolling over for them I used to be in the business, and frankly I am comfortable waiting if its an extra week or two. If it however was months of no contact and repeated passing of pre judged guesses before logistics were figured I would be much more upset.

I mean there are times when you yourself will not be able to accurately judge how long it will take to get from point a to b due to traffic, construction, etc and in the end you will make someone upset or angry. In turn those people also do not want to hear excuses it's true such as your boss. I guess we should all sum it up to "Stuff Happens" .

The point is it really has no benifit for being such a pessimist and arguing for the sake of arguing. If someone has a beef with the company they should contact the company rather than starting fights amongst other gamers in the forums.(not accusing peacekeeper or doom for this but there are those who do) Which aside from moderators who seldom are in contact or have any effect on the business not very many from the company really troll the forums unless they want to share some news.

My distributor "GTS Distribution Southern California", says its due on 8/21/2009 and ships on 9/15/2009. The GENCON video report said that GC is the official launch date for the RT line, not necessarily the release date for it. But hay, dates can change. They did sell what they had on hand within the first half day or so at GC, so it is out there and real and thats more than I hoped for, at least it is in the printer.

Peacekeeper_b said:

You know what? Thank you! Error one way or the other is one thing, but we're talking about a complete confusion of release dates here. All we know is that it was available at Gen Con. No other release date has been given that we can even vaguely trust. When releasing an entirely new game - presumably an important financial venture - I would have thought that especially a small company would take the care to make sure thier stockists know how many copies they are getting and when. For the love of the Emperor, I worked in a tiny engineering company not so long ago and every last washer cap we ordered in was accounted for. Here all we've got is the occasional vague fob-off from FFG staff and a swathe of others constantly making excuses for them. Is it wrong to feel irritated as a consumer because of this? No, I think not

This is (IMO) what happened:

They got as many copies as they could to GenCon. Simple as that. They knew that whatever amount they brought would sell. But they can't just snap their fingers and have the books apear at the con. They need to be printed and they need to be transported. Both take time and money.

Regarding information on the release date - they'll let us know when they know 100% when the books will be available. Far too often companies have announced that Product X will release on Date Y, only for something to go wrong and the release to be delayed a month. Do the fans accept this with good grace? Like hell they do. Much as we've seen on this thread, you get people whining and moaning about the stupidity of the company, the lies, the betrayals etc etc. Companies have learnt to keep their mouths shut until the day before the books hit the shelves.