We are playing AGoT without any expansions. In the past four games that we've played, the Stark family reigned supreme (in 3 four player games and 1 three player game). We argue that their position alone in the north is the reason for their success, i.e. they can freely expand for a few rounds without encountering the enemy. Also being able to concentrate their forces at one place, the neck. The other families have the option of attacking stark via the sea route, though that never seems appealing and has never happened in our games, except a few assaults on flints finger.

Starks poor house cards doesn't balance out their position. We wonder if trading out Lannisters for the Greyjoys would balance our 4 player game. The Kraken seem to be a natural counter to the Starks, as they'd most likely would start expanding towards Seagard and Flints Finger.

What are your experiences with 4 player games (and 3 player to some extent)? Would the map I found on http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/427600?size=large make a difference to our game play?

It's been awhile since4 I played but that looks like the same map. And STARK overpowered? Because of their house cards they can't take down any reral army unless you use Clash's Robb. And every character gets a round or two of free expansion, especially the Lannisters w/ the icon rich Riverlands where one area equals whatever the Starks get by moving two-three armies. The Baratheons have some great moves as well, including King's Landging after a couple turns and the Eyrie (since there's no Martel to call their fleet south and Tyrell has only one to start). Plus they can rush the eastern seas and keep the Starks from having any kind of naval presence if there isn't a mustering on the first turn then you can invade at your leisure while they're always watching their back. The Baratheons have the best navy to start. Take advantage of that.

As for the Lannisters, there's what, two two-tiered cities on the way north that provide cash and supplies (checked the boards. the one you recommend is supposed to depower Lannister/Greyjoy)? No matter what Stark does the Lannisters will be ahead in on their first turn nevermind their second. They may not be able to landlock the Starks as easily, especially w/ the Tyrells, but they can keep them from expanding south and stuck w/ four tiers while they have at least six. And if you do fight for Seaguard, the Lannister house cards will take it either by destroying your units b/c you didn't play Ned or the next time you fight b/c they'll have another knight or a house card that can still destroy units.

So what should be done? Move Baratheon fleet north. Unless you get bad draws or somehow blow your money so the Starks hold the Valyrian steel, they'll hold back to hold on to Winterfell. If they win b/c they're aggresive you just have to be the same.

Actually Stark seems to have the 2nd or 3rd best position , in a 3player game. In a 4 Player Game its definately better as Lannister and Barethon can be distracted by Tyrell

Anyways, as long as there is no Greyjoy on the table there is nothing limiting the Lannisterfleet. and once the Lannistership/s [they should build some very early] have cleared out the Greyjoy-ones they can support the surrounding neck fields. In the fellowing rounds, if they manage to capture the Sea close to Winterfell the Stark game is as good as over.

From then on there will be a not raidable +4 support on all fields encirclign the Greyjoy-waters, and Stark won't be able to ever set sail on the west-side sea. [When playing without exopansions, and by that, without Ports.]

So all Stark can do from then on is battle and distract Barethon, as Lannister holds its 6 citys around and in the Greyjoy-seafield, and can decide if it wants the Tyrell castle or Winterfell to end the misery.

The only thign needed for all that is an early recuitment, from which Lannisters profit most as the Neckarea provides enough fast and easily reachable castles, so you can muster up some ships while not falling back too far in landcombat.

So far this has always worked for me, and the only way to stop other Lannisters from doing so was ganging up on them before the second reinforcement falls.

[sorry for the missing names, i ain't got the gameboard with me atm]