Obviously there's mission assignment gear, which is meant to be returned at the end of a mission, but as far as the stuff that a character/squad requisitions just using their logistics rating, is that meant to be an indefinite assignment of equipment? At first I wasn't sure but then after reading it it doesn't talk about an expectation of return or anything like that.

It's entirely a matter of GM and story discretion as to whether or not things get returned at all, much less when they do. Usually my GM has us requisition things for a given mission, and hand it in when we're done with that mission.

It can lead to the players trying to find ways to get their hands on gear more permanently.

It's entirely a matter of GM and story discretion as to whether or not things get returned at all, much less when they do. Usually my GM has us requisition things for a given mission, and hand it in when we're done with that mission.

It can lead to the players trying to find ways to get their hands on gear more permanently.

Mission assignment gear is pretty much explicitly stated to work like that; there's nothing in there that other requisitions have a time limit on them.

'Ways to get their hands on gear more permanently' worked great for the Chem-Dogs regiment I GMed for, probably not so well for, say, Mordians.

I did just say that.

I did just say that.

Well the point is that there are two explicit circumstances in which gear gets requisitioned; at the beginning of missions, or by talking to the quartermaster, basically. For the latter, it seems like it's indefinite.

The way I see personal Requisitions is less as "Hey quartermaster, I need this X because I want it" and more like persuading the quartermaster to give you an X he has that was extra or isn't accounted for otherwise. It can also be used as a roll to determine whether or not a character finds an X to steal or "borrow" or maybe trade for. If you look at Requisitions as encompassing more than just the official channels, it makes it easier to justify allowing a character to keep the item in question.

@ Terraneux

And given that my statement called out both explicit circumstances, and even came with an addendum of practical experience at a gaming table referring to a "what you could do" type scenario, it's still perfectly valid, and answers the question.

To make it more clear; apply Rule Zero as and when it suits you to do so, otherwise nominally it is indefinite, yes.

Suitably explained now?

it is indefinite

This is the bit I wanted confirmation on; the rule 0 bit is redundant with what everyone understands about rpgs.

I like to imagine that most of the stuff you requisition you will keep indefinitely, and the GM might just hold that "you need to return X now" card for plot fun, character growth, or as a trade-in for the next time you want to requisition a different weapon, for instance. Say I am playing a Psyker; I imagine that if I requisition a Force sword, I get to keep it pretty much forever. They can't need THAT many Force weapons, and if I do something STUPID, preferably punishably so, it might get recalled, or if I want something else, I might need to trade it back in, to get a bonus on the check. For the most part, unless your GM is a total micro-manager, or really trying to create a certain feel to the game, letting your party slowly gain various cool mcguffins to increase their gear load seems fine, and even the rarer things shouldn't be in much higher demand elsewhere than helping you be heroes of the Imperium.

This is my opinion, of course, and DW players might mention that in their game, where their characters are MUCH more powerful, respected, catered to, and what, they need to use Signature Wargear to keep their cool goodies, but if you let the Guard keep theirs, understanding that it CAN be taken back, just because, I think it's still okay. As for RAW, I don't believe it says, so your GM decides.

The requisition system makes no sense in the first place in so many occasions I would make it dependent on the GM decision and maybe discussion in the off time.

Does it make sense that a squad reqs several sets of Storm Trooper Armor?

No if they just want it.

Yes if they have a RP reason and make a transition to the Storm Trooper Detachment in their Regiment if there is one.

Does it make sense to simply req a dozen power weapons?

No it does not if they just want it.

Yes if it is for an officer (probably high ranking) that earned it or serves in a quite resourceful regiment for heavy combat duty.

The theme of OW is about the guard and for the guard their standard stuff is acutally rather good and by far better than most gear the PDFs of their homeworld use. Just because you passed a d100 that does not make it a good excuse to break the setting.

While this is true, the game can't decide if it is about Heroes of the Imperium! or just your average grunt who dies in a trench. The Requisition system is there to cater to either theme, and I truly think it should have been given a different name. It may not make sense for a medic to "requisition" a bolt pistol, but what if she was actually stealing it or found one that wasn't accounted for in official lists? Either way you look at it, the effect is the same.

I agree that it doesn't make much sense for a run of the mill guardsman to be able to acquire rare gear just because he filled out the correct paperwork, but if you look at requisitions as a process that can mean much more than just that, then it sits easier in my mind.

But then think about how you use the req system and how you break it. Commerce for the win. That is ONLY paperwork and not someone stealing a bolt pistol and being send to court because he has a bolt pistol. You serve in the guard. Every officer knows what you are supposed to have - at last the ones of your regiment and especially the commissar. Even if you get your hands on such tools you still lack the explanation to own them in the first place. And showing some paperwork where you clearly exploited the system to the commissar is no good idea.

But as you said OW makes everything wrong at giving a clear setting. The cover is about the service in the guard where the RAW sooner than later turn you into demi-gods that complete ignore the Guard theme in favor of kill-team action. Only that this time the Marines are replaced by humans.

The way the Imperial Guard is represented is reminiscent of regiments in World War II. Things like scavenging weapons off of dead enemies, using gear that wasn't explicitly assigned, and in some cases, stealing the equipment was looked at in various lights by different people. Some officers would allow it to some degree, as long as it didn't interfere with combat operations, while others might have kept their men strictly to the rules and regs. As is the case in the modern day, it varies. From the fluff of 40k, every regiment and every officer views it differently.

Maybe the colonel of your regiment is willing to overlook some unauthorized weapons, or maybe encourages his troops to take trophies. Perhaps the base you are stationed at has a thriving black market, or a corrupt Munitorum official who is willing to look the other way.

Even though it is a foreign, alien setting, the people in the Imperial Guard are still human.

Yet in the WW1/2 era you might be shot by utilizing flaws in the official requisition system.

Also WH40k makes one of the most important aspects unimportant - ammunition. The reason many enemy weapons were used are to some degree superior designs but also a second pool of ammunition. With lasguns you have a weapon with plenty of ammunition. Also in WW1/2 your enemy was not the incarnation of evil and everything it touched not automatically corrupted. As for a desperate campaign, being cut of from supply lines is a perfect excuse for utilizing scavenged weaponry where else you are expected to fight with your issued main weapon in regular situations. But yet you might still work with some looted gear but once you heavily differ from the load out of your regiment by using carapace or power weapons you are to be sure to be questioned for several reasons.

A looted power or bolt weapon is sure to make an eyebrow go up, no matter how relaxed your regiment is and a regular guardsman has no clearance to simply pick such stuff up and use it as part of his personal belongings. They would simply expect you to hand this stuff over to the department guys or the tech priests and you will never see it again. Nobody cares for a stub automatic in your possession but the master crafted carapace of the enemy general is another thing - not to speak of equipment that was in the possession of xenos, mutants, heretic or traitors. And given that all the gear of human adversaries belonged to the imperium at one point looting such stuff, at last when it is valuable, could be considered as theft.

The people of the Guard are Humans, yes. But the Guard is a machine. A meat grinder that does not care for the individual soldier. That does not mean every regiment has to be super strict but there is a limit of things you can pull off. And surpassing the gear of your fellow guardsman to a degree that is just hilarious is far beyond that limit.

Then as the GM, don't allow it. The rules have been written to accommodate a vast amount of variances in guard regiments, so the requisition system has to be flexible enough to work for grunts in trenches, special forces, and company leaders. If you don't think random guardsmen should be able to try to requisition power weapons, just tell them that piece of gear is beyond their clearance. Big deal, the players should know better.

My players finally had some down time to try and requisition personal gear. Naturally, one went for a Long Las, another for a bolt pistol, etc. But with the total modifiers at a -50, they had absolutely no way of getting the random BS that they shouldn't be able to get.

I let them attempt to roll to get the items, but there is no reason to make it easy to do so.

Then your players failed at utilizing their medic as requisition *****. That guy makes it as easy to get a best craftmanship power sword as stealing a cookie from a child.

My problem is not that I have to say stop as a GM, my problem is that the rules do not fit the setting. Why am I purchasing a Rulebook about the life in the guard when it relay is about some come-to-be super heroes and requires me to intervene at every occasion. Cant I expect a rulebook to fit its lore? Is it really that hard to expect more depth to such mechanics when on the other side we have an entire page dedicated to dual-wielding?

At this point I never used the requisition mechanic besides the trolling table (wow, great stuff...) why? Because it makes no sense.

Does my sharpshooter-PC have to roll to get a Long Las? Hell no, he is part of the Sharpshooter/Dedicated Marksman detachment of that regiment, he simply has that thing instead of his lasgun.

How about that commissar? Some social interaction and he gets that bolt pistol/ammo, he is a commissar, he works for the guys that hand these things out and they have a real interest in giving him the tools he needs to perform his job.

The PCs are some Kasrkin-like special forces? In this case they should be far beyond the point where they have to beg for some mercy and roll some D100 and instead get the gear their commander thinks is appropriate.

Ofc it is okay for Kasrkin to run around is carapace with hot-shot lasguns, plasma guns and a power weapon for their sarge but these are kasrkin, if we want to play that we do it. But I do not need some stupid requisition that easily allows some grunt to get the gear of the very elite the imperial guard can muster.

This system does not suit any of the examples you gave.

Grunts in the trenches should have nothing more than the black market among their comrades and some stealing-action.

Special forces should get their stuff directly from the departmento, right with the orders from the general that assigned them to do a job.

Company Leaders have their rank for a reason and that includes getting things they are supposed to have.

The rulebook wasn't just made to cater to your style of running a game. The Logistics system is an effort to compromise in a way that can work for any given scenario if used correctly, and can go as far as the GM is willing to allow and no further.

Grunts get a low base Logistics Rating, usually 5-10. Special Forces would arguably be at a 30 or so equivalent, with likelihood modified by the theatre of operations they're based in (obviously), and a Company Commander has 40-50 Logistics typically.

The system accounts for ranks perfectly well in every capacity except enforcing literal limits on the gear you can acquire (although it has a practical limit based on war conditions, the ball busting rarity modifiers of high end gear, and so on and so forth).

Referring to some of the scenarios you addressed; Sharpshooter has a Sharpshooter specialism. That's what he has the auto-acquire specialist gear for, so no ****.

Kasrkin? Sure thing. Clearly important commando assets, give them an appropriately elevated base logistics rating.

Commissar? Aw man. Sample logistics of 50 listed in the rulebook for a Commissar. Looks like the guy's pretty high priority in the eyes of the Munitorum already.

What I mean to say is, the system's fine provided you have the gumption to read the book and then act accordingly on the information and mechanics presented.

There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all mechanic for the Imperial Guard, but one of humanity's greatest assets is our ability to adapt to suit our needs. You should try it sometime.

If your problem is with the book and those who wrote it, why are you arguing with me on the forums about it? As much as I would like to correct some of the errors in the rules, I cannot. What I can do, however, is present alternative ways of looking at the Requisitions system or maybe try to justify some of the rules. If you are just going to try and shoot down all the points I make then there is no reason for this discussion, and the point is moot.

Your assumption is that everyone should be correctly assigned the things they need, or that rank will always mean you get what you want, or that being in the trenches means you have no access to anything other than a black market. While all these could very well be true, they won't be in every case.

What happens when your long-las breaks, and was specialist equipment and not part of your standard kit? Or your Karskin squad runs out of plasma flasks for the squad plasma cannon? Perhaps that Commissar wants to acquire a plasma pistol, as he finds the bolt pistol to be unlucky.

Those are all examples of when you could use the Requisitions system. Should they have all of that at their fingertips? Probably, but that doesn't mean that they always will. The Munitorum is a powerful, pointless department that is quite stingy when it comes to just handing stuff out, even to those who need it. Again, you are assuming the Requisition system has to cut-and-dry mean dealing with the Munitorum, and not civilian markets, the black market, or finding things to steal.

I find it unlikely that a run-of-the-mill grunt is going to be able to waltz right in and receive a power sword, unless he:

1. Is in an area with a dozen regiments

2. It is a favored weapon by at least one regiment

3. The campaign had been going on for years

4. His regiment had been there a decade

5. They just won

6. He rolls well

That's when it gets easy to acquire things. However, if you know anything about the Imperial Guard, you would know that almost none of those ideal situations will actually happen. Meaning, your PCs will get hard with disgusting amounts of negative modifiers, making requisitioning something simple like frag grenades difficult.

Or just a simple squad-medic that rolls as high as a battle zone commander. But hey, the system works perfectly for every rank, absolutely!

Ah ****... that kasrkins failed their test. Seems the chaos gods are against them and the medic already requisitioned all the carapace armor available. Those pesky surgeons.

Also I do consider more guys a "Sharpshooter" or "Dedicated Marksman" than those who happen to have some class that is called that way. I somehow doubt there is the official rank of brawler in the guard too. Also somehow the entire IG has no regular Riflemen it seems. I wonder how they have problems at all against their enemies for the rank and file seems to be either weapon specialists or heavy gunners or some out of place specialists that have nothing else to do than running around with some squad.

The rulebook is perfect, I am sorry.

PS: If the Long Las of a Marksman breaks he gets a new one just as anyone else would get a new Lasgun. I somehow find it strange to have to argue about such a thing.

As for your example with he sword - that is the epitome of wrong. There is no real reason why he should get such a thing.

edit: wrong button

Eh, not to be the ray of doom and gloom, but if he breaks his the emperor's holy lasgun, depending on regiment, he may well get a summary execution instead of a new weapon.

Well for such a regiment there is no need to discuss about any requisition at all - you have one try, make it count. xD

Commerce is an opposed test. Medic is cheesing the skill? Give the NPC that handles requisitions commerce on a similar par. Not a difficult fix if you're willing to actually engage your brain.

The rulebook is not perfect, no, but given perfect is impossible, I'm kinda happy with the compromise we have.

It also depends on who YOUR Guardsmen are. If you are "the Guard", you don't matter, you are the most expendable resource in the universe, followed by hydrogen, and you die. Why even have a requisition system? Don't give those guys any options, they're here to die for the Emperor, or win by accident. If you are playing more between Veterans and " we're players, so we deserve breaks in the system because we are what the game is run around ", it does work. Veterans in the TT can get some access to various "good stuff", like Carapace Armor (without being a Toy Soldier), or alternate weapons, and thus the Veteran-level characters can, too. The Munitorum still wants to WIN the wars, so it would make sense that they would equip those who prove they can survive and follow orders with better stuff, like Space Marine Scouts "upgrade" to real Battle Brothers, and get P.Armor, after their trilals, work, and final implants. Sure, there are some things Guard should have trouble getting, but who IS supposed to use that stuff the Munitorum has in a shed, somewhere? They don't keep Space Marines around, all the time, Sororitas bring their own, and so do Inq Agents. The Skitarri aren't here in force, yet, but someone made all the munitions, and so someone has to use it.

Could they have done a better job of it? Certainly, but if the characters ended with the same laser pointer and cardboard fridge box they started with, how would you feel you improved? You got better at stuff, sure, but you should also get better stuff. Here's hoping I didn't miss the whole point.

Or just a simple squad-medic that rolls as high as a battle zone commander. But hey, the system works perfectly for every rank, absolutely!

Ah ****... that kasrkins failed their test. Seems the chaos gods are against them and the medic already requisitioned all the carapace armor available. Those pesky surgeons.

Um... What? I don't know what you are doing to give a squad-level medic the effective logistics rating of 80, but that would require sinking quite a bit of XP into Fellowship and Commerce, then succeeding an opposed (+0) Commerce test with 7 (!!!) degrees of success. While it isn't impossible, it is highly unlikely, and would mean your medic has probably focused solely on buffing the logistics rating of the squad.

If that is your problem, then he is probably a pretty bad medic, bad shooter, or a combination thereof. The issue then isn't with the Requisitions system, it is with your min/maxing munchkin players.

As for the Kasrkin, they already have carapace armor so I don't know why they would need more. My example was for ammunition required in a gun that isn't part of the regimental standard kit, which is when you would use the Requisitions system.

Okay, so here your complaint is that the way you run the game isn't the way the rules are set up to run. Specialties can be either a guardsman's official job, or just an aspect that he or she has a special affinity for. So while there may not be a "Sharpshooter" rank in your regiment, someone who is especially good at sniping may be given a long las, making him a "Sharpshooter" in spirit if not in rank.

If you are just giving PCs a long las because you consider them a "Dedicated Marksman" that weapon still isn't part of their regimental standard kit, and would in all likelihood be considered specialist equipment. Meaning, if it was lost or broken, it would have to be requisitioned for, just as ammo for it would.

As for the power sword, you are right; he should not be able to just grab one. That is why the odds of him doing so are so incredibly stacked against him it is almost impossible for him to do so. If the GM is worth his or her salt, then the PC shouldn't be in a position where they are able to just sit around trying to Requisition stuff. If that still doesn't make you giddy with happiness, then you as the GM can think of a multitude of things that could result in the PC's power sword being taken away.

Nobody said it was perfect and in fact there are some flaws. However, the Requisitions system isn't terrible, just your ability to read the rule book is. No RPG is perfect, there will always be ways to bend or break the rules. If you find that something like that is happening often, it isn't the fault of the rule book, but the exploitative nature of the players. You might find that the Requisitions system works pretty well as designed, and when it doesn't, you as the GM have the right to make it dangerously interesting for the players. After all, the thought of the Imperial Guard not providing everything you need is heresy. Heresy gets you shot.