I am running a custom campaign in this game (not one of the ones in the book) and I have been using the zombie stats for the "zombie" from the No Room in Hell scenario. they have a DEX of 1 and as such, barely ever hit and when they do they only do 99% of the time 1-2 stress, which is usually quickly absorbed by the PC's since they often have 1 or 2 resistance vs. physical stress depending on how stressed they are on that track at the time. This is even the case when using large hordes of zombies against the PC's. This means these zombies will never push a PC to have to convert physical stress into trauma and thus possibly suffer the special effects of a zombie bite.

Are you all experiencing the same issue and if so, how are you dealing with it? I'm considering mixing in some of the ghouls as found in the Night of the Meteor scenario. They have a DEX of 3, making them much more deadly than the previously mentioned zombies.

When using large hordes add additional dice. I would add a dice for every additional Zombie attacking, up to the number that could reasonably reach at once- which I would probably cap at 8 if the survivor was surrounded but standing, or 10 if they were surrounded and prone. Make an attack for the whole horde rather than a bunch of individual attacks for each zed. Zeds are weak one on one, but in a mob they should be horrifying.

When using large hordes add additional dice. I would add a dice for every additional Zombie attacking, up to the number that could reasonably reach at once- which I would probably cap at 8 if the survivor was surrounded but standing, or 10 if they were surrounded and prone. Make an attack for the whole horde rather than a bunch of individual attacks for each zed. Zeds are weak one on one, but in a mob they should be horrifying.

Indeed.

It's also worth keeping in mind that often in "shambler" (or just about all, for that matter) zombie scenarios, humans (and the de-evolution thereof) become the real threat, and zombies really just become plot devices, used to keep things chaotic, to control where people can or do go, and to cause pivotal plot changes/advances (destabilize the settlement, kill that guy, bring in those guys, etc.). You can and probably should do the same thing with your campaign, zombies are much more than just individual creatures for your group to kill or vice versa.

I did exactly that suggestion.....when a number of them would be together against a single PC they would get bonus dice. For example, at one point one of my PC's got in the middle of 3 of them. I simply had the first one attack and added 2 bonus dice to simulate them working in a mob. This still didn't do much though since only 1's do anything at all.

Also, that same player wanted to have the ability to push himself to be able to make more than one melee attack on occasion. I ruled on the fly he could make one additional melee attack if he pushes himself (1 extra pos die and 1 extra negative die). He did this all night while swinging a fire axe. He rolls 3 positive dice for his features and 2 more additional positive dice for the fire axe. He was rolling doubles all night long. At the end of the session he had killed 17 himself.

He rolls 3 positive dice for his features and 2 more additional positive dice for the fire axe. He was rolling doubles all night long. At the end of the session he had killed 17 himself.

I'm still having issues with this. The typical zombie with 1 in Dexterity just is not a danger in a 1-on-1 situation. I have to group a ton at a time to be a real threat. Only 1's count as a success and even when there is a success they cannot ever get enough successes to do any real damage to a PC with just a 3 positive dice pool. They typically only do 1 damage on a hit and usually get absorbed by the PC's as they gain resistance as they take damage in the stress track.

P.S. What are the stats on the main zombies you are using in your game? Most of the zombies in mine are the traditional Romero/Kirkman shamblers and only have 1 DEX.

One on one shamblers shouldn't really be a threat though, should they? The power of shamblers is in there numbers and as plot devices. Often in shambler stories, people (and the devolution thereof) become the real threat. It's all a part of the metaphor. I think it would be very misguided to change this dynamic by making a single shambler a competent combatant.

One on one shamblers shouldn't really be a threat though, should they? The power of shamblers is in there numbers and as plot devices. Often in shambler stories, people (and the devolution thereof) become the real threat. It's all a part of the metaphor. I think it would be very misguided to change this dynamic by making a single shambler a competent combatant.

That is fine and I understand/agree with this concept but this has been a problem in my game nonetheless. It doesn't feel very lethal/dangerous.

Just increase the zombies' stats! You are alredy running a custom campaign, might aswell customise the zombies awell.

You are the GM, you have full controll over the setting, everything in it and what rules you use.

Our GM will make zombies an actual threat. One you can take but once they start to pile in (2-3 to one is already dangerous) if you get cornered, you're gonna get eaten. I like it this way because it's not really horror if you can just escape from a dead end street by climbing over the pile of zombies you have slain...

Are you all adding an extra positive die to the dice pool for each additional zombie in a horde besides the first? I've been thinking of handling it that way, instead of individual rolls for them. This would make them substantially deadlier.

Are you all adding an extra positive die to the dice pool for each additional zombie in a horde besides the first? I've been thinking of handling it that way, instead of individual rolls for them. This would make them substantially deadlier.

We just played last night and this is STILL an issue even when using pack tactics. I am doing the same thing where if there is a group of zombies and they are all in a pack and a character is unlucky enough to get in their way they get an extra positive die for every zombie present in the group beyond the first so a group or 10 zombies in a pack would roll 9 positive dice just for numbers. I am assuming I should also add positive dice to their pools in these circumstances too for their features.

Last night I was doing this and one player got too close to a pack of zombies twice. The first time they rolled 6 dice against him and only got 1 hit (I am using the 1 DEX classic Romero shamblers from the book). It only did 1 damage as a result and the character quickly absorbed it since he was between his 1st. tier and 2nd. tier on the physical damage track and had 1 resistance. The second time this happened they rolled 7 dice and only got 1 hit again (a 1 result on one of the d6's).

We have played 5 or 6 sessions and so far the zombies have been so weak and pathetic that none of the players are afraid of them. This really makes the game not feel like a zombie game.

Do you all suggest I use tougher zombies than the ones I've been using from the book on pg 81, zombies with 1 DEX? Some of this would undoubtedly be fixed if these zombie stats actually had attacks on them that did damage. All that is detailed on their statblocks are its physical resistance (It Won't Die), how to kill it (Destroy the Brain), and what a potential bite does in terms of spreading the infection (Bite of the Living Dead). Why don't they have attacks that do damage dice too? Like a fingernail scrape attack or an actual bite or something? Weapons do multiple dice of damage added to your rolled successes at a time but a 1 DEX zombie is only ever going to do damage equal to how many 1's they roll in their dice pool at a time, which if way more often than not only one 1, even when rolling upwards of 7 dice in a pool. This is a big problem because the zombies cannot hardly ever effectively do decent physical stress to a PC.

Anyone?

If you throw 12 die (1 base+1horrific+1unyielding+9assists) and only come up with one success, that's just really poor luck. However, if you get two or three Successes and your PC(s) are always just shrugging it off, that's a reflection on the fact that shamblers were not designed to be combat powerhouses - again, their powers/purpose lie elsewhere. And so to counter that, you have to throw some real threats (like people) at them sometimes so that they can't just walk around with 6 Stress like its nothing.

But also, since there are 9 zombies assisting, where are those other 9 zombies attacks (each with 9 assists as well)? An assist in this type of combat situation doesn't, IMO, take the assisting zombies actions, it's a representation of those other 9 zombies limiting the PCs defense/movement options just by being swarmed around - forcing him into a vulnerable position for anyone who does attack. So, if there's 10 zombies swarming a PC, he should be facing 10, 12 die rolls. The grid-combat tactician in me would probably limit the number of simultaneous zombie attacker/assists to 8 (so, 8 rolls of 10 die), but that's a GM call.

Or ultimately you could just assign them a base damage of 2, so those 1, 2 or 3 successes would yield 3-5 Stress.

One on one shamblers shouldn't really be a threat though, should they? The power of shamblers is in there numbers and as plot devices. Often in shambler stories, people (and the devolution thereof) become the real threat. It's all a part of the metaphor. I think it would be very misguided to change this dynamic by making a single shambler a competent combatant.

That is fine and I understand/agree with this concept but this has been a problem in my game nonetheless. It doesn't feel very lethal/dangerous.

You could grade a modified dex stat on how old the zombie/shambler corpse is. Maybe have a Dex of 2 for really recent walkers, and a Dex of 1 for all others that have degraded or become worn out over time, reflecting the loss of sinew and muscle tissue (from wear and tear, damage or atrophy) in their arms and legs and consequently their ability to move like a normal drunken person would. I think upping he dex over 2 would be a mistake though, then they would kind of be like the one in the meteor scenario, or what I imagine the stats to be if you were doing a knock off of the 28 Days Later film (which is similar i think). I'm new to this system though so I might be a little off on my stat judgments. So you could have a lot of them be degraded and you go into the post apocalypse period, versus maybe a small to moderate percentage of them being degraded from age, damage, degradation or other reasons in the initial phase of the story.

The easiest way to tackle this would simply be to bump their Dexterity up to 2, and have the zombies attack in instances where penalty dice become abundant and easily amassed. Also, if your zombies use the rules where a single bite means infection, then even small amounts of stress become suitably frightening (since the stress-turned-trauma then becomes a "Bite" trauma which cannot be cured).

Unless your dice really hate you, having Dexterity 2 zombies attacking en masse with additional "circumstance" factors that cause penalty dice should give your players reason to fear them. After all, it only takes one bite...

This thread has me concerned about this game...

I had planned on ordering a copy and trying it out with some of my friends. However, I know they'll want to use the "Romero zombies," and - based on what I'm reading here - those types of zombies are worthless.

Now, I do realize that, one-on-one, most of the characters from the Romero films have no trouble. (Unless it's a person scared out of their mind.) But when things seem most dire are when the characters don't hear the zombies coming. Or when there is a large group of those zombies rushing forward with little escape strategy for the protagonists.

So are there mob rules for zombies?

Are there modifiers for surprise attacks?

Or do the characters just quickly achieve the status of Tom Savini and his gang of bikers, racing through malls with custard pies and having the time of their lives in the apocalypse?

I mean, from what I understand, we're supposed to play as ourselves. Which sounds awesome. But... Most of my friends and I all have a bit of martial arts training, most of us have collections of weapons, and we're all pretty fit. While none of us are cops or soldiers (we work for ad agencies, television stations, large banks, universities, and the like), we would still probably handle ourselves fairly well I would think.

So should I have the sh*t hit the fan at another location while we're all grabbing lunch or out for drinks? So we don't have access to bokken, baseball bats, sai, hunting knives, hockey sticks, nunchaku, etc? Because, otherwise, it seems we'd just mow through zombies ... perhaps even driving over to a nearby cemetery to put a stop to the problem before it gets any bigger (in our area, at least).

That is, if the "Romero zombies" are indeed worthless.

Again, color me concerned.

So are there mob rules for zombies?

Are there modifiers for surprise attacks?

Or do the characters just quickly achieve the status of Tom Savini and his gang of bikers, racing through malls with custard pies and having the time of their lives in the apocalypse?

I mean, from what I understand, we're supposed to play as ourselves. Which sounds awesome. But... Most of my friends and I all have a bit of martial arts training, most of us have collections of weapons, and we're all pretty fit. While none of us are cops or soldiers (we work for ad agencies, television stations, large banks, universities, and the like), we would still probably handle ourselves fairly well I would think.

So should I have the sh*t hit the fan at another location while we're all grabbing lunch or out for drinks? So we don't have access to bokken, baseball bats, sai, hunting knives, hockey sticks, nunchaku, etc? Because, otherwise, it seems we'd just mow through zombies ... perhaps even driving over to a nearby cemetery to put a stop to the problem before it gets any bigger (in our area, at least).

Oh and thanks for the second laugh.

Thanks for the replies.

But no need to be a jerk, amigo. I was basing my comments on the OP's concerns, which began to mirror my own - that a normal person with a fire axe could hold his/her own against 17 zombies. So if my party already had a decent assortment of weapons, wouldn't we be too "powerful?" I mean, seriously, why not just wait by some graves for the chance to play 'whack-a-mole?'

I'm sure your own party consisting of three ex-military and a hunter would absolutely mop up. Again, based on what I was reading from the OP.

Just not used to seeing ppl toot their own horn in quite that fashion, is all. You gotta admit the visuals were a little funny, a bunch of white collar professionals using their blue belt Tae Kwon Do and (what I didn't imagine were actual combat quality) weapons on zombies?

And really, this game can be anything you want it to be, the only limitation is your own abilities to use the system and adapt it to your needs. Your concerns are based on something that is in fact not an actual problem because it is easily addressed in many ways.

Zombie bites need to be treated as a low grade weapon I think. Maybe doing 2 stress. This would aid things as well.

Just not used to seeing ppl toot their own horn in quite that fashion, is all. You gotta admit the visuals were a little funny, a bunch of white collar professionals using their blue belt Tae Kwon Do and (what I didn't imagine were actual combat quality) weapons on zombies?

And really, this game can be anything you want it to be, the only limitation is your own abilities to use the system and adapt it to your needs. Your concerns are based on something that is in fact not an actual problem because it is easily addressed in many ways.

Didn't realize I was tooting my own horn. I was just laying out the facts - (1) yes, we are now a bunch of white collar professionals (is this a laughable thing?) who stay fit, (2) some of us have degrees of martial arts training, and (3) we have decent-ish (?) weapons at our disposal. I even made it a point to say we are not even remotely at the level of cops or soldiers.

Anyway, despite you continuing to be somewhat of a jerk in your posts, I will accept your "apology."

And thanks for reassuring me that the game is not "broken" when it comes to using the Romero-style zombies. I'd just hate to think we could all just 'hang around' outside, wasting zombies with reckless abandon... That would put a damper on the atmosphere/mood right quick.

There is a way to make zombies more dangerous, even whilst keeping their Dexterity at 1: have it so that ANY stress caused by their attack results in the converted trauma becoming "Bite/Infected". Once they have that, the character is pretty much dead - you could use either the "Bite" or "Infected" rules shown for the other classes of zombies to emulate how the character is slowly becoming one of the undead.

The point is, Romero's zombies weren't exactly hard to avoid - for the most part, they were shambling horrors with no fine-motor skills and no speed. The time when they were dangerous was when they were en masse (which you can represent with the horde rules of 1 x positive die per member of the horde), or when they had the element of surprise/the living human was trapped or otherwise at it's mercy (which can be represented with negative or positive dice, depending on what's happening and who's performing the check).

Do zombies hit often? No, they don't, not against important characters in the films; but when they do, it normally means curtains for the victim, and that's what a low-Dex zombie represents when any stress inflicted by it means death for the character.

I am sorry I offended you. I didn't think you were as serious about this as you are.

A "bit" of martial arts training didn't sound particularly useful to me against zombies, given that many martial arts as taught in mainstream classes often end up short of practical application (fighting someone when there's no rules). And absolutely, that's my bad for assuming it was from some Bullshido dojo, and not actual fight skills and experience, so that is what I'm apologizing for. I don't know you or your friends, so it was wrong of me assume this.

And absolutely, what I assumed were wall-hanger weapons and sports equipment are fine improvised weapons, but the notion that you could just "go play whack a mole" seemed pretty ostentatious. Again, didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

It all just seemed absurd to me that you didn't seem to think the ZM had any control or ability to account for what all is, IMO and by most measures of objective reasoning, very modest levels of preparedness/capability.

[edit] And don't get me wrong, I don't claim to have any better levels of physical preparedness - I'm a white collar professional (though my job has a significant field element that keeps me on my feet), I'm fit (a cyclist), have similar improviseable weapons (bat, camping hatchet, machete, hunting and tactical/utility knives), with no martial training (though I'd take firearms over martial arts in a short term game/apocalypse), but I also wouldn't presume the things you did.

I was just trying to temper your thoughts that you had the game beat without even playing it.