New Custom Army. Ogre Kingdoms!!

By -Dyne-, in Warhammer: Diskwars

Very cool!

Since you've gone to this trouble I'm wondering if you could tell me what the precise widths are for the small, medium, and large disks (in inches)?

Width of a small disk is 5,3cm (2,1in), for the medium 6,3cm (2,5in) and the large disk 8,2cm (3,2in) :)

Edited by -Dyne-

Hey...this looks really cool but I can't open your files. I tried to through Firefox but it just continues to send me to a new tab every time that is a blank web page. What program do you need to pull this up?

Only it's a link to Mega.... it is strange.

It's a zip file, with 2 folders, one with PNG images and the other with the Gimp files to edit or create new disks.

Edited by -Dyne-

Hmm, looking at the disks, this seems rather badly balanced. Most things have at least two wounds, move faster than their similar priced or disk sized counterparts. And the elite is far more powerful than any other siege equivalent large disk or any other large disk, to say nothing of its inordinate move speed. All artillery have 0 move speed or 1-2 flips. And very little attack. Giving it four flips, 5 attack, 5 counter attack, 5 toughness, 2 wounds, 2 damage to everything in short range when it hits which is more powerful than the Banshee which has a similar ability and Mobile For 15 points?

I mean no offense here but every single one of these disks is far more powerful than any equivalent cost or 'small' disk in any army to date, to say nothing of the other disks that are supposed to have equivalents. And the increased cost does not offset giving almost every single disk two toughness. The Ogre Bulls now squash or wound just about everything except for elites or empowered dwarves, but have a 2-1 kill ratio unless they are focused with range and melee or hit with a mixed attack speed scrum. For 8 points. I could go on, but I think that it would just sound worse as I did so I will stop here.

A medium disk with Mov4 is exacly the same than a small disk with Mov5 :)

In BGG they'd said me that Bulls were to weak at 8 points, and I've added impact 1. A Bull for 8 points without impact 1, or 9 points with it?

Scraplauncher isn't a siege disk, I think that it is very similar to Sun Dragon. Ironblaster is probably unbalanced. Any ideas?

Edited by -Dyne-

An 8 point disk with 2 stamina is not weak because it can't splat things in one go. Comparing the Scraplauncher to the Sun dragon, Sun Dragon has 4 flips, 5 attack, 5 counter 5 defense, Flying, Mobile, it does d6 to everything engaged with 1 disk, that is most like 2-3 damage to 2 disks, maybe 3 if it is a scrum and it is in the middle at medium range. The Scraplauncher is 4 flips, 5 attack, 5 counter, 5 defense, mobile with a long ranged attack that does 2 damage but then 2 to everything in short range, four dice if you have Rain of Arrows scenario. Yes, there is a -chance- that you might whiff all three or four attacks, or that the extra damage might not come into play but I stand by what I said earlier this morning. There is no equivalent disk in game because you made them just slightly better than anything it is meant to be similar to.

An extra stamina is not, nor will it ever be, equivalent to a 1-2 point increase in a disk cost over a small one because it is by default more durable than the small disk at that point. I don't pay attention to 99% of what comes out of BGG when it comes to balance or anything else rules wise, because they are very much Rules As I Want Them vs RAW or RAI. Or to put it nicer it is "fun" for them but not remotely balanced when compared to anything existing before hand.

While I can understand wanting to give them the extra stamina flavor wise being Ogres, the reality is that it unbalances the game sharply because your army is more durable than your opponents, and it is a lot harder to overcome that extra wound in a game like Diskwars than it is for WHB or 40k for the simple fact that staggered damage to counter that is meant to focus on the big threat such as Sun Dragon, Bloodthirster, heroes and the like. Not against everything in an army.

On bgg I gave feedback and you seemed to misunderstand it going even further in the direction I was trying to explain against. I didn't think that it would be worthwhile to try to explain it again (as much my inability to communicate simply as anyones fault understanding) but I'll give another summery since it seems someone is trying your work:

Multiple stamina on that many disks makes the balance between overpowered and underpowered far too sharp. It isn't something you can balance by simply tweaking a couple numbers because what you're trying to control is the dynamic and not some abstract 'power level'.

For what it's worth, I said that 4,3,4 bulls without 3 movement were underpowered for 8. I did suggest that your boosted stats (and I didn't even notice you boosted the speed) would be too good.

EDIT: That was also before you gave the impact which puts them well more than over the top.

To clarify: I actually believe it should be possible to balance an army that fields many disks with stamina however I don't think that you can do it with simple stat tweaking. I still believe the old bulls would have been too weak for their cost however I think that if you'd even just increased their counter attack by 1 (which is in fact the change I thought you'd made) they'd be somewhat too strong (let alone what an extra move and impact on top does for them). So how might this be done? By working out what the armies dynamic is and figuring out how to play around with it.

-An army with brutal aggressive power and staying potential but which has a hard time using it due to mobility and enemy reliably getting to pin key targets? -> that's an idea that might work but you have to work with that and see how it works out. If the being pinned first isn't a weakness because their counter attack is to good then it won't work. If their aggressive power isn't sufficient to counter after being pinned, it won't work. If their they aren't so immobile that it's hard for enemies to reliably pin them first, then it definitely won't work. Even an single extra movement or counter attack can fundamentally change how a unit plays.

-So to give an example of how to look at it: I told you that I thought that your medium ranged units didn't look particularly rewarding to get into position and suffered from the same lack of mobility of the faction and the inherent difficulties of that type of unit. Instead of just boosting the stats (which can either change nothing or far too much when a disk has stamina), maybe these disks could have kept their somewhat weaker ranged attack but gained stalwart. This works into a slower playstyle where you expect to be pinned and makes their staying power incredibly powerful without making it so that the enemy simply cannot trade well with them. As it is incredibly powerful on a disk with stamina you would probably need to make them much more expensive but even for being much more expensive without a stat boost suddenly there's a reason to include these in your army. They become disks you can shield your other disks with to keep your offense based melee from being pinned who don't care if they are pinned.

I should probably stop before I go any further but since I saw this post (and the end results for the Ogre) I'd support the above's statements and suggest you look and try again. If you have someone to play test with, playtest. It'll be a far better experience than any amount of discussion.

Edited by Velensk

Where can I find the templates for making units?