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Another thread about multi-cores? Time to take a drink.

This isn't going to happen. All LCGs made by FFG require multiple Core sets IF you want full playsets of every card. No-one is forcing you to play decks that require three Core sets, and if you feel it's unfair that other people chose to spend the extra cash, that's your problem, no-one else's.

The reasons for FFG not releasing a supplemental pack containing cards to take a single Core set to complete playsets are well-discussed already. No point going over old ground.

As for the additional cards; most people who own multiple Core sets are glad of the extra copies of Sure Gamble/Hedge Fund, as well as some other common cards.

The core set remains available at retail price or below, there's no "Pay to win" happening here.

An additional core set is an excellent value for your money--in addition to having full playsets of all but 11 cards, you get multiple sets of common staple cards which allow you to build and play multiple decks simultaneously.

The purpose of the core set is not to give a complete playset of every card, it's to provide an introductory product to the game. It's got about 250 cards in it--now, that could comprise a card pool of about 83 cards (cut in half for corp/runner purposes) and starter decks of little possible variety, or they could up the card pool to a little more than 2 copies per card, some more some less, and have a card pool of 117 total cards and expand what can be created out of the core set.

Recently, they've gone even farther in that direction with Warhammer 40K Conquest, whose core set is nearly all single cards except for a few staples. From what I've told, buying three core sets in that game is a tremendous benefit, and they've indicated they're looking at a similar setup for Game of Thrones Second Edition.

They will never ever ever print a product whose sole purpose is to undermine sales of the central product of their game line, that's just silly. They're also not going to artificially constrain the design space of the tournament scene--which itself is a minority of the total player base, but one which is almost entirely comprised of multiple purchasers. That is also silly. Calling the game "pay to win" when there's no significant aftermarket and anyone can use off-the-shelf product is the most silly thing of all.

I really had to laugh after reading the new Criminal Faction overview article because of this:

"One of the most common mistakes that beginners make when building Criminal decks is to include fewer than three Desperado."

In other words the "common beginner mistake" is not buying three core sets! Stupid beginners!

FFG can s*** my d*** - I definitely won't buy a third core set just to get the one or two good cards that they didn't think of including more than one copy of.

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3. Not adding a supplemental pack to round out the core set is a major "**** you" to the player base from FFG. If they want the game to grow they need to not treat new players like this. No one wants to buy 3 core sets just to be competitive. With the same $120 you could buy either 3 core sets OR 1 core set and 5 data packs. The more appealing choice is the option with additional data packs. Even though having multiple core sets is probably the larger power spike I would want additional data packs for the variety of cards. I believe it's also more physical cards over all.

Once again, this point has been covered. The arguments both for and against a 'completion set' are well-documented, and I see no point to re-hashing them when a very quick search through this site alone (let alone googling it) will point you to multiple threads discussing this same 'problem' as well as the rebuttals.

And nobody forces your hand. You buy (and play with) the cards you want. If you want 3x Desperado you buy 3x Core sets, because that's how they come. You can easily play without them. I've yet to build a deck that uses 3x Desperado or SanSan.

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No, two concepts for two out of seven factions "crippled" because a core set with 3x of everything would be a crappy product with only 1-2 viable builds, probably not even one per faction. If they include more copies of each card then they can't put in as great a variety of cards, the core set is less interesting and plays worse out of the box, and this is even more alienating to new players who feel like they've been given a palpably incomplete game. Try playing Star Wars, which because of its card pod mechanics has to print full playsets of each card: a single core set of that game can barely put together one playable deck for each side, and the variety in decks that can be built is almost nil.

I will be avoiding other FFG games until this is handled better.

Well, the door's over there. Conquest and Star Wars proved that card variety is more important than quantity so from here on out LCG core sets will be mostly 1x's.

If they want the game to grow they need to not treat new players like this.

Considering it has been selling like hotcakes since it was published two and a half years ago and continues to grow, when I'm presented with ignorant bellyaching on one hand and actual reality on the other, I'm going to go with reality. Your assertion was falsified before you even sat down and opened your browser this morning.

Additional core sets have diminishing values.

The first one gets you

• 250 playable cards
• 7 identities

The second one get you

• 66 playable cards
• 0 new Identities and a bunch of extra cards

The third one only gets you

• 11 playable cards
• A whole lot of extra cards

So if you take a look at the setup new players can get in easy with access to all factions for a single core set. When they want to get competitive a second core set would be enough to set them up with a few other expansions. Getting a 3rd core set is not that good of a value so it is almost punishing the deep pocket "whales" unless they desperately need a 3rd Aesop Pawnshop.

Not denying that those who buy expansions don't have an advantage over say a player in a core set. First of all this is not a free to play game because it will never work with a card game especially one with as much production value as Netrunner. Still the core set has 2 and 3 of some of the most powerful cards in the game. Not every card needs to be tippled in a deck.

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Marin, I don't see this as a benefit. I don't want extra cards. I would just trash them or mail them back to FFG.

I never said this was a free to play game. I expect to pay for product that I want. What I don't want to pay for is extraneous garbage.

Other than to silence people from this repetitious crying out why does the community defend FFG in this practice?

Because it is FFG's business model for their LCGs. Instead of having you by boxes or semi-randomly assorted boosters according to made up rarity tiers to get the cards you want they vary the quantity of the cards in the core set and as for all expansions they have triplicates (the most you need in a deck). Not to say that there are no extraneous cards in the expansion packs as well. Since all cards are printed in triplicate save the core set you get multiples of cards that are not needed in multiples, mainly identity cards and some cards that are limited to 1 per deck agendas. The first pack you don't need three Whizzard IDs but they come in the first data pack anyways.

Why to people defend it, well mainly because it is cheaper than the randomly assorted rarity system that other CCGs use. That is the whole purpose of the LCG is that you know exactly what you need to buy. The core set works great because it gives you all 7 factions and all you have to do to switch from one faction to another is remove the faction cards with another faction (assuming they are all on the same side for corp/runner). Compare that to a MTG starter deck which just gives you 1 deck and not all cards are maxed out too so even then if you want to put 4 of every card you would still need multiple starter decks.

Other than to silence people from this repetitious crying out why does the community defend FFG in this practice?

Repetitious crying out is all you're doing.

We defend it because we're right and you're wrong. We presented the case for the benefits and the rationales for why the core set was designed the way it was: a core set with a limited enough card pool to have you not need to buy multiple cores would be a shockingly inferior product with zero or less than zero customizability out of the gate.

We've seen the Conquest and now (enough of) the AGOT 2nd edition core set now to see that FFG has obviously learned more and there was room for improvement, but that improvement is to have no card more than 2x and the vast majority as 1x. This requires three core sets but you don't have the diminishing returns that you have with Netrunner. Unfortunately as far as Netrunner goes, the ship has sailed.

So, you claimed you were done with it five months ago. So there's utterly no point for you to come back around necroposting and offering nothing new but the same old bellyaching.

Quit the game like you said you would, get out of this forum, and don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

I think I'm somewhere in the middle on this. I don't have any problem with a two core set sales model. It allows for more variety in the single core set making it a better game at a lower price for beginners. This is actually new player friendly. That $40 price point is an easy sell for a game that is so good right out of the box. If you really like the game, another $40 isn't too big of a deal to complete the 2x cards and get a second copy of the 1x cards.

The problem I have is with that third core set. $40 for 11 cards is bull$h!t. There is no reason FFG couldn't issue an 11 card booster pack of print-on-demand cards and sell it for $20-25. (Similar to the draft packs.)

In my play group (~30 regulars) very few people have a third core set. But I'm willing to bet almost everyone would spend $20 to complete their collection. FFG could actually make more money while also building a lot of good vibes among their core player base.

At the very least they could have made certain that the first 11 promo/alt-art cards were the 11 rarest/most expensive cards from the core set.

2 Core sets are about the average for any serious netrunner players. The 3rd core set model is sort of an income equalizer between players. A person with modest income who can budget only 2 core sets and a select amount of expansion packs should be able to build decks just as strong as a Netrunner Whale who has bought 3 core sets and every expansion. The paying advantage has always been a debate over many collectible card games be in their random packaged TCG format or fixed set LCG format.

As for alternate art cards I like the netrunner alternate art cards over the X-wing alternate art cards because they do provide instant content that can expand your collection with exceptions to the Core ID. Some cards like the data sucker is only a 2 pip giving you a full splash while cards like Katie Jones gives you a whole new cards if you have a limited collection. I actually had used Alt art Katie Jones before I completed the Genesis Cycle and had a full splash. I could say they could work a little more on using alt art to make some cards more accessible (example making C-3PO an alternate art card for X-wing) however the format for using it as tournament prizes and participation awards makes it more of a bragging rights/ secondary market collectors item. How FFG selects alt art is often from premier tournament champions so it is often on the perspective of the top tier players than on the average player on what to make.

You can get the extra cards through any number of online channels for a reasonable price. This is a problem that has had a third party solution for as long as I can remember. As others have said, FFG will never undermine their core product by selling a supplement. I think it cost me $11 to get all of the cards that only had 2/3 in the core set.

I thought the point of playing a LCG was that everyone was on the same playing field and that it wasn't "pay to win". Why are people who choose not to purchase 2 additional core sets at a disadvantage in tournaments? Aside from spending another $80 on what I believe to be for 77 cards to have a full playset, I think it's incredibly wasteful. What am I going to do with all these extra cards? I wouldn't donate them because it's like giving pants with holes to kids who need clothes.

If FFG doesn't want to create a supplemental expansion or data pack to help us complete our core sets for whatever reason then I call for a restriction on core set cards. Disallow the use of multiple core sets.

The only people this should upset are those who purchased additional core sets or those who bought singles.

I have to admit I never gave the 1 vs 3 core set thing any real attention because I don't play in tournaments, but I think you bring up a very good point and I agree, they should have a limit on core set cards.

I thought the point of playing a LCG was that everyone was on the same playing field and that it wasn't "pay to win". Why are people who choose not to purchase 2 additional core sets at a disadvantage in tournaments? Aside from spending another $80 on what I believe to be for 77 cards to have a full playset, I think it's incredibly wasteful. What am I going to do with all these extra cards? I wouldn't donate them because it's like giving pants with holes to kids who need clothes.

If FFG doesn't want to create a supplemental expansion or data pack to help us complete our core sets for whatever reason then I call for a restriction on core set cards. Disallow the use of multiple core sets.

The only people this should upset are those who purchased additional core sets or those who bought singles.

I have to admit I never gave the 1 vs 3 core set thing any real attention because I don't play in tournaments, but I think you bring up a very good point and I agree, they should have a limit on core set cards.

The first core set is just an introduction. It gives you a limited sample and you have enough cards to play any faction in netrunner(except for the mini factions in data and destiny).

The second core set is for those that want to get more involved. It you are really serious about netrunner then you should get the second set. It gets you a double of the 1 pip cards and completes the splash for all the 2 pip cards.

As for the third well it is just to get a full 3 splash of all cards and is not really necessary. Instead of comparing 1 core set to 3 core sets you should really compare 2 core sets to 3 core sets and see just how much of an advantage the 3rd set has over a serious player with only 2 sets.

The diminishing returns on the 3rd set does help equalize some players over the different income brackets. Granted the cost to play netrunner while more predictable than say a game like magic it still is not a free game. You still have to pay for the cards as they have to be printed and shipped and it is not just some virtual card like hearthstone which can be a free to play assuming you have a phone/pad/computer and an internet connection.

I thought the point of playing a LCG was that everyone was on the same playing field and that it wasn't "pay to win". Why are people who choose not to purchase 2 additional core sets at a disadvantage in tournaments? Aside from spending another $80 on what I believe to be for 77 cards to have a full playset, I think it's incredibly wasteful. What am I going to do with all these extra cards? I wouldn't donate them because it's like giving pants with holes to kids who need clothes.

If FFG doesn't want to create a supplemental expansion or data pack to help us complete our core sets for whatever reason then I call for a restriction on core set cards. Disallow the use of multiple core sets.

The only people this should upset are those who purchased additional core sets or those who bought singles.

I have to admit I never gave the 1 vs 3 core set thing any real attention because I don't play in tournaments, but I think you bring up a very good point and I agree, they should have a limit on core set cards.

The first core set is just an introduction. It gives you a limited sample and you have enough cards to play any faction in netrunner(except for the mini factions in data and destiny).

The second core set is for those that want to get more involved. It you are really serious about netrunner then you should get the second set. It gets you a double of the 1 pip cards and completes the splash for all the 2 pip cards.

As for the third well it is just to get a full 3 splash of all cards and is not really necessary. Instead of comparing 1 core set to 3 core sets you should really compare 2 core sets to 3 core sets and see just how much of an advantage the 3rd set has over a serious player with only 2 sets.

The diminishing returns on the 3rd set does help equalize some players over the different income brackets. Granted the cost to play netrunner while more predictable than say a game like magic it still is not a free game. You still have to pay for the cards as they have to be printed and shipped and it is not just some virtual card like hearthstone which can be a free to play assuming you have a phone/pad/computer and an internet connection.

Oh I agree that having 2 or 3 core sets is great; I was crazy enough to do it lol. I got one core set for my Birthday in 2013 and fell in love with the game, then later that year I picked up 2 more core sets from amazon, when I had some spending money. I don't think the OP thinks FFG is evil and out to take our money. I just think FFG may have made an honest mistake by allowing players to use 2 or 3 core sets in their decks. I feel like the game is sold on the idea that you only need one core set and if you want to add cards later, you can buy data packs and deluxe sets to add (no need to buy extra copies of any if you don't want to), allowing players to play in tournaments with 3 or 2 core sets just seems like pay to get ahead to me, but like I said, I'm not a competitive player, so for all I know maybe people with 2 or 3 cores are getting spanked in torments (would be funny if true lol), I just think FFG shouldn't allow more then 1 core because there are lots of great hardcore players that only have one core set.

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Not really, as stated before the core sets are designed to easily construct 7 different kinds of decks. There are cards that are limited to 1 per deck but having different cards limited 2 or 1 cards per deck seems ridiculous and just adds too much more complication in deckbuilding which is fairly complicated already with the influence and agenda counts.

Again trying to compare the collections of 1 to 3 core sets is wrong. Sure there are a lot of great players that have only 1 but serious players get 2 and that is pretty much it. You didn't need the 3rd set. If you start restricting to a single core set why not just start banning data packs? Yes CCG have a paid advantage with having a broader collection and more cards to pull from but even with that advantage I wouldn't call it anywhere near pay to win as the newest expansions doesn't have the end all to be all win cards and core cards are still the strongest cards in the game and that includes the ones that come 3 in a core set.

Would it be nice to have 3 copies of cards in the core set save for the IDs which should only be 1. Sure, but then again you also miss the point of the core set. It is to introduce new players to the game and get them started with a fairly reasonable card poll. If you just overload new players with a whole collection of cards and say here make a deck they would be overwhelmed and they would either have to net deck which often doesn't restrict themselves to certain data packs.I would dare say even if you gave a brand new player 3 of each card in the core set and say make a deck with out a starter list that player would become confused and discourage and thus another netrunner player would be lost. In a way it is better to get a new player playing a few games first before you get them to deck build so that they have a better understanding on what would make a good card to be put in a deck and what wouldn't

I feel like the game is sold on the idea that you only need one core set

This is probably the core of the issue right here. You made this assumption. Nowhere does FFG suggest this in its marketing.

The thing is you aren't wrong - you only NEED one Core set to play. Additional Core sets (like additional Datapacks) simply make certain decks better/possible.

I agree with OP. It's unfair that someone who buys things with money should have more things than me.

In seriousness, I have my own solution for buying multiple core sets: save up money.

I agree with OP. It's unfair that someone who buys things with money should have more things than me.

In seriousness, I have my own solution for buying multiple core sets: save up money.

So much like. I need more like buttons for this post.