What would make sense for the composition of a space marine void boarding action? I imagine this would vary between a cramped destroyer and a huge spacious battleship or Ramillies star fort.

Some ideas:

* Terminators. The classic. Either standard or assault squads would be glorious in close quarters.

* Veteran space marines. Vanguard in particular would be marvellous if terminator suits aren't available for all 1st company present. Experienced and deadly in close quarters. Sternguard useful for making sure no counter-boarding occurs.

* Assault marines. Move quickly and butcher. Jump packs may be of limited use in the smaller vessels but would work in the massive corridors of larger void structures. Melta bombs and krak grenades to clear the way.

* Dreadnoughts. In canon have been used to board vessels (see Night Lords trilogy). Hard to bring down and carry horrendously powerful weapons. Even if they can't get into every corner.

* Scouts. If there is atmosphere, useful for infilitration, sabotage and intelligence gathering.

* Tactical marines, Equipped with flamers and plasma guns, a versatile group.

* Devastator marines. Less obviously useful. But wonderful for holding territory especially on the larger vessels.

* Vehicles: very dependant on vessel size. Whirlwinds useful almost nowhere.

Thoughts?

Terminators are the obvious go-to option for boarding action. However, I'd say Tactical Marines come second due to their aforementioned versatility and balanced composition. Assault Marines are a big maybe - useful thanks to their melee specialisation (very efficient in causing carnage), but I doubt their jump packs will be of much use in the more confined inner areas of the ship.

Dreads and any vehicles are right out thanks to their unwieldy size, unless maybe we're talking about something like a Tyranid bioship that has its own island inside.

Obligatory addition: there is no canon , feel free to cherrypick according to your personal preferences.

Actually I am pretty certain that there are canon mentions of Dreadnoughts being used in boarding actions.

The good old Space Crusade boardgame at least had a chaos dreadnought in a hulk...

Besides the ships and space stations in 40k have corridors and rooms big enough for vehicles and dreds. Not all the rooms and corridors of course, so relying on the vehicles is not smart but if the team enters through a hangar or something they might bring a dred with them to help make a bridgehead (but sooner or later they would have to leave him behind if they plan to go deeper into the ship/station.)

The assault marines would probably leave behind their jump packs but they would still do well in the close quarters fighting that happens during boarding actions.

And don't forget that the Astartes might just be the tip of the spear in the boarding assault. If the plan is to completely take over a ship or station (rather than just a hit-and-run attack to destroy a key location or disable something) they are going to need a regiment of guardsmen or at least the crew of some cruiser to help take over the **** thing.

As the above seems to address some of the criticism I raised:

If by "canon" you actually mean "official", then yes, I would not be surprised. The writers all have their own ideas on how the setting works, and so may come up with all sorts of things in the respective books. That being said, given how Space Crusade is about Imperial forces boarding an enemy ship, your example with the Chaos dread sounds more like the remains of a ship that was already part of the Hulk, rather than part of a boarding team that was sent over.

This is purely my interpretation, but the way I've read about Imperial ships, those grand corridors and rooms exist only where they actually make sense, meaning huge machinery, macrocannons, and such. There will be countless small and cramped corridors connecting these areas, both because it makes sense to save space, but also to create a confined atmosphere. Since you brought up Space Crusade, remember how its map looks and how this was an integral part of its tactics . And if you are boarding a ship you'll want to cross them.

Lastly, shotguns are often mentioned as the preferred weapons of boarding teams and ship security not just to preserve the hull, but also for their spread. If most rooms on a ship were huge, they'd be nigh useless in combat and people would carry autorifles with dumdums instead.

As for the Assault Marines, the reason I remain somewhat skeptical is that their focus on melee is also a limitation. They lack any ranged weapons and thus need to get in close quick , otherwise the defenders will just cut them down. They could be very useful for causing mayhem once they reach their enemy, but it seems like a very risky tactic. I could see them have a limited use in the first stage if the boarding torpedoes hit one of the larger rooms (-> gun deck), where they could fan out under cover of the weapons fire from their battle brothers, then use their jump packs to close in quickly with defenders - especially those who have taken an elevated position on some platform above.

The requirement of reinforcements to secure a ship is an interesting addition - I'd say it depends on what exactly you intend to do with it. I imagine the vast majority of a human ship's crew to be cooperative regardless of who controls the command deck, so a bunch of Space Marines may even suffice to take over in a similar fashion to how they sometimes go straight for the planetary government, essentially "decapitating" their foe in the hopes that the rest would surrender and fall in line.

On a ship, this may work even better than on a planet, as the people working in the bowels of a cruiser seem to be rather poor sods who are completely dependent on the ship continuing to function just to stay alive. Without hope to actually throw the conquerors of their ship (and lacking the weapons and armour to do so), they might just continue doing what they did before. What's really to change for them? Ship crews are almost inventory as is; doesn't matter who holds command, they'll never see them with their own eyes anyways.

Of course, this wouldn't work on a Chaos or Xeno ship, but then again, why would you want to actually capture it ... exceptions such as Inquisitorial interests aside - how about a Blackstone Fortress?

Since a 'boarding action' would most likely be a transitory stage in a military campaign rather than the focus of one, I doubt that Space Marines would bring dedicated boarding action units to a battlefront; they would just repurpose what they have available for that stage of the campaign.

Good point! Under that consideration, I could easily see even Scouts join in. In fact, this reminds me of something I've read in an older GW article:

Obviously, the Space Marines' edge in such a situation (aside from their wargear and genetic enhancements) is their versatility - especially as displayed in their most numerous Tactical Marines; able and trained to take on a number of roles as the situation demands, from driving their Rhinos to giving fire support with a heavy weapon, they can adapt to almost any mission, and the rest of the Chapter would (metaphorically) follow in their wake with whatever skills they've learned so far.

I've used a boarding action in my campaign. it isn't the focus...just a piece of the puzzle

The players diverted to a planet that was in the initial stages of an ork invasion - but the players were "only" on a dauntless class light cruiser. up against the entire ork fleet, the players decided to board (using boarding torpedoes) and assassinate an ork leader. long story short, they killed the ork, set charges on the ship's engines, and stole a shuttle to get to the planet. the cruiser provided cover for the torpedoes then attempted to flee [i haven't decided what happens to it yet]

hopefully the quick story helped to see how "my" players used a boarding action

[edit]

I should mention that the squad is a devistator, a librarian, an apothecary, and assault marine

Decapitation strikes sound like the most efficient use of Space Marines in boarding actions. It's going to be nigh impossible for normal troops to stop a sizeable push from astartes towards the bridge or fleeing leadership elements. And it makes the rest of the enemy combatants that much easier to slaughter after if required.

Normal human crew are often described as being uncaring or unknowing of who is in charge of their vessel. So unless they were fanatically loyal or chaos tainted, it's unlikely they'd pose much resistance to marines.

Vehicles and dreadnoughts sound very situational. Useful in their element e.g. launch bays, cargo holds, large internal thoroughfares but too bulky to go elsewhere.

Without jump packs, assault marines may have to adopt a more scout-like role. Shorter corridors would actually help them close with enemies.

Remember these are space *marines.* AKA the fighting force of a navy. Boarding actions is part of their base training.

True and they're outright described as ideal for boarding actions. What I'm trying to work out is the details.

You could use assassinate a leader, cripple/disable/destroy/take an important ship/instillation, clean a space hulk, rescue some bigwig... All are viable reasons for a boarding action.

But if details you mean the interior and opposition, well that all depends on the foe. Nids, for example, could be the classic space hulk adventure - perhaps an imperial ship that lost its gellar field, or one thought destroyed by Hive Fleet Dagon years ago.

Or you could use cultists in hordes supported by demons/traitor Marines/psykers as part of a decapitation strike of an opposing fleet at the onset of a void fight (if the players do well or choose to, they could divert for a bit and take control of some weapon batteries and fire on other traitor ships!).

In planning, I try to bake in the rule of cool and put the players in situations where they can do crazy things if thy think a little bit differently

In the Battlefleet Gothic miniature game there were two types of boarding actions (IIRC.)

Hit-And-Run, during which the boarders would damage the internal components (Boom! goes shield generator, BOOM! goes torpedo storage,) on the ship or assassinate officers or simply kill as many crew members as they could before teleporting out or leaving in their boarding craft.

All or nothing, which would require physically connecting the two ships (Generally done by ramming the other ship and then opening the boarding tubes.) The crews would fight and the goal would be to destroy or take over the other ship. This could not be done just by a few boarding crafts because usually it would would require most of the crew to succeed. (Naturally smaller ships would be in trouble.)

Deathwatch marines are more likely to be doing the former. They could do it at any part of the battle to weaken the other ship(s) and even when doing the latter the Deathwatch will probably not be simply going with the other crewmen, since that would be a waste of their potential. They would still be teleported or otherwise transported into some critical region of the ship or they would try to charge the bridge and end the fight.

...Then there is always the possibility of the enemies trying to board the player ship. The team could either be guarding the bridge or some other vital location or they could try to hunt down the enemy boarding parties. (Note that the enemies will also be sending their best teams and meanest critters to board the ship. There could be anything from a Squiggoth to a Daemon-engine tearing up the ships bowels, or perhaps a Chaos Space Marine squad that leads a horde of chaos cultists...)

The space hulk board game had an article in white dwarf where they talked about using dreadnoughts (statted out a Carnifex, Eldar WraithLord, and one of the marine dreads). Obviously would depend on the ship layout. Also in those rules, chainfists had the power to rip through a door faster.

Boarding: Boarding torpedo or well-piloted ship. Marines should be pretty good at using sensors to find weak spots, and want to spend as little time in nonessential bits as possible. Hmm, can assault marines use their packs to jump onto the hull? Terminators might use a teleportarium to get on.

Weapons: If you're taking out critical components, melta bombs are a must. Grenades can be extra-effective in small rooms. Don't forget flash-bangs when the Marines go through a door. Do you want low-pen to avoid severing unarmored cables, or high pen so you can shoot through walls and not worry about ricochets? Melee weapons obviously. And assault marines do use pistols. If you want mobile cover, bring along one of those Arbites/rogue trader riot shields. Might want one guy with longer range in case enemies mass up in a big room.

As far as opponents, Dark Her & Rog Trad both have good ones (super-daemonette, ball of malice and sharp sharp knives, stats for naval officers)

Hmm, can assault marines use their packs to jump onto the hull?

Considering the jet packs have what looks like air intakes, I'd normally assume not - however, that is a very cool idea, and if the Imperial Guard is able to slap "air feeds" onto their heavy weapons to make them usable in the vacuum of space (3E C:IG), I'd say you could employ the same technobabble to rig jump packs for some EVA.

I can easily imagine a space walk onto an enemy hull being a great start for a mission, and you could make Tests for how they manoeuvre with their jump packs. Perhaps even giving them limited uses (until the "air feeds" are drained) to increase the tension. And for an (initially secret) emergency save, they can divert oxygen from their suits to correct their course, at the cost of 1 Wound per attempt. For a last straw, anyone who tumbles helplessly through space could be picked up from the Thunderhawk they launched from.

And assault marines do use pistols.

You are correct, of course - I'm an idiot sometimes. Considering how much I "pride" myself on knowing even rather obscure references of GW's Astartes fluff, it's really embarrassing when I forget something as elemental as Assault Marines carrying 1 bolt pistol and 1 chainsword, rather than dual-wielding chainswords as for some reason I had stuck in my mind.

Perhaps I've somehow had a sort of melee-focused "mirror" image to the dual-pistol-wielding Sororitas Seraphim stuck in my head there.

Anyways, in that case I certainly agree that Assault Marines might make fine shock troops, as they can switch from ranged to melee combat focus in an instant. Tactical Marines could, too (boltgun rifle butt?), but not to the same effect - even though they're better at ranged combat.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of introducing such "SWAT-like" modern gear as flashbangs or riot shields, but that is just my bias against deviating from what I see from GW's presentation of the Astartes. In my mind, the Space Marines are all about shock & awe as represented by just crashing through a wall like Stormtroopers on the Tantive IV, and if the first two Marines die to enemy fire then that just serves to reinforce the image of primitive and bloody Grimdark.

Hmm, can assault marines use their packs to jump onto the hull?

Considering the jet packs have what looks like air intakes, I'd normally assume not - however, that is a very cool idea, and if the Imperial Guard is able to slap "air feeds" onto their heavy weapons to make them usable in the vacuum of space (3E C:IG), I'd say you could employ the same technobabble to rig jump packs for some EVA.

I can easily imagine a space walk onto an enemy hull being a great start for a mission, and you could make Tests for how they manoeuvre with their jump packs. Perhaps even giving them limited uses (until the "air feeds" are drained) to increase the tension. And for an (initially secret) emergency save, they can divert oxygen from their suits to correct their course, at the cost of 1 Wound per attempt. For a last straw, anyone who tumbles helplessly through space could be picked up from the Thunderhawk they launched from.

And assault marines do use pistols.

You are correct, of course - I'm an idiot sometimes. Considering how much I "pride" myself on knowing even rather obscure references of GW's Astartes fluff, it's really embarrassing when I forget something as elemental as Assault Marines carrying 1 bolt pistol and 1 chainsword, rather than dual-wielding chainswords as for some reason I had stuck in my mind.

Perhaps I've somehow had a sort of melee-focused "mirror" image to the dual-pistol-wielding Sororitas Seraphim stuck in my head there.

Anyways, in that case I certainly agree that Assault Marines might make fine shock troops, as they can switch from ranged to melee combat focus in an instant.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of introducing such "SWAT-like" modern gear as flashbangs or riot shields, but that is just my bias against deviating from what I see from GW's presentation of the Astartes. In my mind, the Space Marines are all about shock & awe as represented by just crashing through a wall like Stormtroopers on the Tantive IV, and if the first two Marines die to enemy fire then that just serves to reinforce the image of primitive and bloody Grimdark.

To be fair they aren't likely to die, with them being fast and wrapped up in power armor, or as is common for boarding actions: in tactical dreadnought armor. And even if they die...More glory to the chapter!

Also: How come all Seraphim can dual wield pistols, but the only marine who can is Cypher?

To be fair they aren't likely to die, with them being fast and wrapped up in power armor, or as is common for boarding actions: in tactical dreadnought armor.

That's true, though of course it depends on the opposition. If it's just shotguns ... meh.

But in general - see the fate of Rogal Dorn.

And even if they die...More glory to the chapter!

That's more like it! Besides, it'd hardly be heroic if everything was a cakewalk, right? ^^

Also: How come all Seraphim can dual wield pistols, but the only marine who can is Cypher?

I'd say it's really just a question of training and tactical doctrines. Assault Marines are intended to get in close as fast as they can, hence jump packs and a melee weapon, with the pistol more as a backup or support weapon (try reloading it whilst wielding a chainsword). Once in melee, they are the fiercest warriors the Imperium has to offer. In ranged combat, others - such as the Sisters of Battle - can be just as dangerous, but their genetic enhancements provide the Astartes with a unique advantage when it comes to physical strength.

Seraphim on the other hand excel in the Sororitas' focus of close range firefights, and even though they are trained in gun-kata/kung-fu/whatever it is that passes for martial arts there, they're not supposed to seek prolonged melee contact with the enemy. If they get close to an enemy on their own volition, it's just to dispatch them with a headshot .. or slap a meltabomb to their backs.

Don't ask me why Cypher has chosen to pick up two pistols, though. I suppose it may just be a quirk, or perhaps a representation of him being unwilling to seek close combat because he doesn't want to get caught, instead continuing to play Carmen Sandiego with his Imperial bloodhounds.

Where in the warp is Carmen Sandiego?

If Space Marines are boarding, a bit of thought as to their load-out is important, regarding the end expectation of the ship, and crew, in question. If you play Rogue Trader, you might notice that some of the naval armsmen have "crappy" weapons, and this is not purely because they are "just Human", or an issue of resources; the hull of the ship can matter, and if you start blowing holes in it, depressurizing regions, killing collaterally, and such, you might make more trouble than progress. Sure, I'm an Astartes; I have several bio-augments that might assist me in void-actions, vacuum, and stuff, AND I'm wearing a contained-environment PA suit, but if I needed some people alive, or if the crew are more victim than traitor, or if there were things you needed to retrieve, and you blow them to bits with explosive bolt shells, or get them sucked out into space, well that sucks.

An argument can be made "I'm not anywhere near the outer hull", but RT doesn't make that distinction, so maybe DW won't either. Just a thought, anyway. On the outside, the hull can survive macro shells, some lance strikes, and worse, but inside, it's not nearly as tough, apparently. If you are more Space Hulking, where your Nid Killers don't care if the bugs get vented, and the Stealers probably don't, either, then this may mean nothing, but if the ship needs to be WORKING later, and possibly still manned, and all, then some weapons might be right out.

Cypher has two pistols because he won't draw the sword he has, and doesn't want to carry two swords. He's a great shot, and the options between bolt pistol and plasma pistol are sometimes important (here's hoping those are still his guns o' choice). If the tabletop, I can imagine some people, at certain points in history, not wanting to always use the plasma pistol because Gets Hot can hurt him, and why give up a Wound on a price point that high? His bolt pistol was fine, like every other Astartes, and the plasma was good for special moments.

I suppose now, with re-rolls getting around Hot, and high BS getting you an extra shot with the other gun, maybe it's just "because he always has had them", I'm not a DA expert, personally.

An argument can be made "I'm not anywhere near the outer hull", but RT doesn't make that distinction, so maybe DW won't either.

Yeah, I'd say this is something where the GM should just apply a bit of common sense, and override the game if its rules do not attribute for it. If the Marines are there to capture someone or something important, it's almost assured that it won't be anywhere near the entry point but somewhere safe in the middle of the ship - where (thanks to airtight compartment doors) it'd be safe to use explosives and heavy weaponry, whereas at the outer shell, the Marines don't have to care about collateral damage. If anything, it makes their assault easier if some of the potential hostiles get sucked into space or suffocate from lack of oxygen.

Besides, I strongly doubt boarding torpedoes do not cause decompression in the target area 99% of the time.

I don't think it's so much of breaching the outer hull as it is breaching something valuable in the inner workings. LIke that chlorine gas pipe, or plasma battery coolant, or power regulator. It's like firing a gun inside a submarine - "Somethings in here don't react well to bullets."

Hmm - in the original material it was just worry about damaging an airlock. But you make an excellent point which the writers (and myself) have apparently not thought of.

Also, +1 for the Red October reference

Also depends on the writer: Mostly you have navy ratings carrying peashooters for fear of damaging the hull. And in some books you have astartes using anything from bolters to lascanon armed dreadnoughts in their ships corridors.

Also one imperial starship was described as "having no void shields but a meters thick solid adamantium hull. (No it wasn't named the "Wolverine".) But Quiksilver has a point regarding that "fireing inside a submarine" thing.

I prefer Das Boot myself....

Huzzah! I made one post today that wasn't total "what's he talking about?" With Marines getting aboard via hull-boring tubes, Marine-filled torpedoes, or possibly even deep striking/teleporting aboard, right to where they want to be, it might not be too big a thing, but something I wanted to bring up. So often, I like to imagine Space Marines going in where no one else can, and just shock-trooping it up. They usually only have enemies, and only expect to kill those, and wreck anything they have to to get there, with the occasional "find some survivors", or some other limiting objective. Subtlety, and the limiting of collateral damage, is not something I always attribute to them, regardless of their mission. Sure they can, but that's not the image in my head; things have already gone past subtle if you need to send in Astartes. Thus, warnings on the weapon choices, and inside a ship.

Also one imperial starship was described as "having no void shields but a meters thick solid adamantium hull. (No it wasn't named the "Wolverine".)

I like to think that all ships have a meter thick hull, as otherwise I don't see how they could at least partially withstand stuff like lance attacks and macrocannons. However, at the same time, each ship will also have weak spots - you can't have personal airlocks as thick as a meter, and whilst the weapon bay doors may be armoured they will have to open in order to allow firing (which reminds me of how you'd attack one of those airships in Crimson Skies). Same for the hangar, and spotting towers. The list goes on.

These are the areas I'd target during a boarding attempt. And coincidentally, this is exactly what happened in that BFG short story that Andy Chambers had written, too (-> bunch of boarding torpedoes slamming right into the weapon bay).