Standard Kit

By crusher bob, in Only War

For those of you looking at what the guard issues as standard kit an wondering if it's missing something, here's an excerp from


The Modern Warrior’s Combat Load
Dismounted Operations in Afghanistan
April - May 2003

Equipment Common to Riflemen:

A. Worn on Body/Uniform:
• M4 Carbine with PEQ-2 Laser/PAQ-4 Laser, ACOG/CCO, and 30 rounds of 5.56mm ball ammunition.
• Desert Camouflage Uniform with Infrared Tape on left sleeve (1”x1”).
• Desert Combat Boots.
• Dog Tags.
• ID Card.
• Undershirt.
• Socks.
• Tactical gloves.
• Interceptor Body Armor with two Small Arms Protective Inserts.
• Advanced Combat Helmet with night vision mounting plate.
• Rigger belt.
• Notebook and pen.
• Watch.
• Knee and elbow pads.
• Sun, Sand, and Dust type Goggles or Wiley-X Goggles.
• Folding Knife/Multi-tool.

B. Worn on Fighting Load Carrier/Interceptor Body Armor:
• MOLLE Fighting Load Carrier with modular MOLLE pouches.
• 180 rounds of 5.56mm ball ammunition.
• Bayonet.
• Fragmentation grenade.
• 64 ounces of water in two 1-quart canteens.
• 100 ounces of water in a hydration bladder.
• Casualty and witness cards.
• Flex cuffs for personnel under custody.
• Night vision equipment (PVS-14/PVS-7).
• Iodine tablets. (for water purification)
• Lensatic compass.
• Flashlight.
• Chemlight.
• First Aid dressing and pouch.
• Canteen Cup.
• Earplugs.

C. Carried in Assault Rucksack:
• MOLLE Assault Rucksack or commercial assault rucksack, with MOLLE attachments.
• 500ml intravenous fluids bag with starter kit.
• 70 ounces of water in a second hydration bladder.
• Two Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs).
• Poncho and/or Bivy Sack.
• Poncho liner.
• Undershirt.
• Spare batteries.
• Two pair of socks.
• Polypropylene or silk long sleeve undershirt.
• M4/M16 Rifle Cleaning Kit.
• Personal hygiene kit.
• Rubber gloves.
• Sling rope with two snap links.

D. Carried in Main Rucksack: (Main rucksacks were rarely taken on operations during study)
• MOLLE main rucksack with Sleeping Bag Carrier or Large ALICE rucksack.
• Modular Sleeping Bag (one bag per two men).
• Long Polypropylene Underwear of Fleece Jacket and Bibs.
• Two Undershirts.
• Two pairs of socks.
• Cold Weather Gloves.
• Knit/Fleece Cap.
• Additional ammunition.
• Two Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs).
• Sleeping pad.

Fighting Load = A+B
Approach March Load = A+B+C
Emergency Approach March Load = A+B+C+D

Special Equipment:
• Lock pick (B).
• Collapsible Riot Baton (B).
• Bolt cutters (C or D).
• Metal detecting wand (C or D).
• 60mm mortar round (C or D).
• Combat Lifesaver Kit ©.
• Personnel Under Custody (PUC) Kit (sand bags, flex cuffs, trash bags, PUC cards, rubber gloves) ©.
• AT4 Anti-armor Weapon. (C or D).
• SMAW-D Bunker Defeat Weapon. (C or D).
• Hooligan Tool. (C or D).
• Sledgehammer. (C or D).
• Entrenching Tool. (C or D).
• M18 Claymore Mine. (C or D).
• Pole-less Litter. (C or D).
• 200 rounds of 5.56mm linked ammunition for M249 SAW. (C or D).

Fighting Load = A+B
Approach March Load = A+B+C
Emergency Approach March Load = A+B+C+D

Average Fighting Load (lbs) 63 lbs
Average approach march load 95.67 lbs
Average emergency approach march load 127.34 lbs

---------------------

Note that that's roughly 1 day of food (2 MREs) and water (234 ounces (~6.92 liters) (with more being supplied on a daily basis)

One of the reports main conclusions was that the infantry was too heavily loaded.

Edited by crusher bob

Personally, I'd actually say FFG fell victim to the belief that the Guard's kit has to be a Modern Warriors's Combat Load.

What OW features as standard regimental kit might fit to a Cadian regiment. Others ... probably less so.

ranger.gif pyran.gif chem.gif

For my Valhallan marksman, I think I deleted about half the stuff the book threw at me ...

And I stick to the Codex on this one: the one and only piece of universal equipment is the lasgun.

As usual, it's simply a matter of interpretation and conflicting sources, but given the background and appearance of all those wildly different regiments, I believe the standard regimental kit is way too standard.

Edited by Lynata

What sort of 'stuff' are you deleting?

You need things like the cold weather gear, grooming kit, sling bag/rucksack, basic tools, mess kit, etc or you can't really stay alive.

Or are you talking about deleting things like the armor, radios, grenades, night vision goggles, etc?

Well, let's go through the standard kit one item at a time:

  • One uniform
    not all regiments are uniformed (though in fairness, it could also be a catch-all term for clothing)
  • Poor weather gear
    not necessary, depends on weather conditions (and the goodwill of whoever equips them)
  • One Laspistol (Main Weapon), and two charge packs
    this one is codex-approved, obviously
  • One Knife
    not strictly necessary, but could double as cutlery (improvised mess kit)
  • One Flak Vest
    not necessary (see Catachans, Arcadians, etc)
  • Rucksack or sling bag
    Useful. But necessary? Depends on how much from this list you eliminate for the individual regiment
  • One set of basic tools
    has not been part of the standard kit of any military on Earth before WW1 (except Roman Legionaries)
  • One mess kit and one water canteen
    In some form, yes (wooden bowl? waterskin?)
  • One blanket and one sleep bag
    Blanket, yes, but the sleep bag is entirely optional
  • One rechargeable lamp pack
    has not been part of the standard kit of any military on Earth before WW2
  • One grooming kit
    again, not necessary for survival, even if proper hygiene is a factor in maintaining health
  • One set of cognomen tags or equivalent identification
    really depends on the regiment, a lot of the more primitive ones may not care
  • One primer or instructional handbook
    haha, no
  • Combat sustenance rations, two weeks’ supply
    these I won't touch, though technically not even rations are critical items if the soldier is fed every day by other means

What you pick and what you keep should be judged for each regiment individually, based on their techlevel and culture and the image you want to go for. I should point out that my idea of Valhallans is very much inspired by the cliché of undersupplied poor sods biting through whatever the galaxy throws at them with sheer grit and determination, so my modifications to the kit looked accordingly (I've even cut the amount of reloads and made head armour depend on a diceroll :lol: ).

Perhaps the book could have just offered different tables to pick from, but .. in the end, all I'm saying is the RAW list reads too much like "21st century US Army Infantry Loadout". And the Imperial Guard is not a "contemporary" military force, but instead the crazy result of combining high technology with archaic practices (even more archaic than certain traditions of most modern militaries :P ), some of whom do lower a soldier's life expectancy by a bit. Catachans going into battle wearing friggin' T-Shirts is just the most obvious proof of it.

Here 's a rather interesting collection of photos from kits from various eras of warfare, by the way - worth a look! And This one is a good list for the Napoleonic infantry.

Edited by Lynata

Grooming kit is necessary if you're required to wear respirators or rebreathers, as someone who has worn one professionally. Facial hair interferes with the seal and allows particulate into your breathing air. Scary prospect to have a failed seal, I can assure you.

Totally only relevant to regiments expected to operate with some kind of rebreather or respirator.

Totally only relevant to regiments expected to operate with some kind of rebreather or respirator.

Or looking snappy!

But yeah, the relevance for masks and fully enclosed helmets is a good point! (listen to this man, Space Wolves)

Another thing on standard kit from a personal experience level, I make a point of hacking anything out of the kit that I personally don't feel is appropriate for the characters to use. I personally think this community puts far too much stock in following the initial design intent to the letter.

While it depends on each regiment, some standardisation exists.

This is the full list from the imperial infantrymans uplifting primer. And it's a lot, so here goes:

  • combat fatigues
  • shirt
  • undershirt
  • sockx x 4
  • undergarments
  • great coat
  • rain overalls
  • combat boots and laces
  • full body flak armor
  • webbing
  • leg gaiters
  • belt and holsters
  • bandolier
  • field rucksack
  • helmet
  • short pattern mg standard lasgun
  • spare powerpacks x 4
  • bayonet/ combat knife
  • autopistol with 5 clips
  • frag grenades x 4
  • range finder
  • lasgun maintenance kit
  • TOOLS:
  • 9-70 entrenching tool
  • hand axe
  • tool kit
  • lamp pack
  • MED SUPPLIES:
  • swabs
  • salt tablets
  • water purifying tabs
  • guard issue medipack
  • - gauze bandages
  • - vein clamps
  • - lotion of embalm
  • - phials of morphia x 4
  • - sterilising fluid
  • - synth skin canister
  • -insect repellant
  • - blessed lotions
  • OTHER ITEMS:
  • sand bags x4
  • mess kit
  • canteen
  • water bag
  • canvas sack
  • blanket
  • sleep bag
  • field glassess
  • gas respirator
  • dry rations
  • dog tags
  • tent
  • whistle
  • adhesive tape
  • tinder box
  • grooming kit
  • imperial infantryman's uplifting primer

Whew! thats a lot of stuff. Now compare that with what you start in OW...

Yeah, let's just say I don't think every Valhallan infantryman is issued with 4 pairs of socks etc, and I have never seen a Catachan with a helmet. ;)

The IIUP is a Black Library product, and as such not written by the same people who write the codices and White Dwarf. Consequently, it will feature different ideas and interpretations, much like the novels and this RPG do. For example, in addition to the IG Codex saying that the lasgun is the only item issued to all Guardsmen, the equipment image in the 3E 'dex showing two Guardsmen in their kit (Cadian Shock Trooper, and Kasrkin Grenadier) specifically points out how one of them has an autopistol, but how it must have been looted from the battlefield because it's not standard equipment.

For the record: I love the IIUP for its crazy contents, and found the prayers section very useful for my Battle Sister. I'm just repeating what I just posted over in the Xenology thread: there is no canon - pick what you like.

For some regiments, such a long list of stuff may make sense, for others .. not so much. It all depends on their homeworld and its culture + techlevel. The wildly different looks of the different regiments are entirely intentional as part of their style and potential for customisation, so personally I find it runs contrary to the Guard's most basic concept to introduce a "one size fits all" inventory as OW or the IIUP do.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img22/6861/bfpd.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img4/3317/02pc.jpg

(warning, big images - those are from the 3E Guard Codex btw)

Look at the Tangar regiments, 3rd from the left on the 2nd pic. Dudes are completely naked and carry nothing but the rifle! :D

Edited by Lynata

As a GM with no military experience, and with friends that also have little to none, as well as little to none exp with 40K, I can appreciate the list, just so you can tell players what all they DO start with, but I can certainly see some regiments not having all of that crap. Elysians, for instance, need to keep things light and compact, and while many of those things seem great to have, if the Elysians don't also give out Chaos-laced cloaks of holding, from D&D, I'm not sure where all of their little bits and gubbins are put. A backpack is a great tool, but you might need to wear that grav-chute once, instead, and the bull-pop is strapped to your chest, so maybe not a bag there, either. You might drop as a team, and they drop a crate with the rest of your stuff, but I don't know.

I'd certainly go through the list, regiment to regiment, and probably change a few things here and there. Fortunately for me, Cadians are my hands-down favorite regiment, and I usually imagine their various regiments getting the full list, AND being able to lug it all around.

As a little aside, and this might be a good one to ask for all the real veterans here, if you are in a scenario like "typical" IG, what do you do with your extra stuff? You'll bring certain stuff with you, all the time, certainly, but I'd imagine you'd leave some of it "back at base", assuming you have one. Still, depending on how your assignment shapes up, you might not have a base, or might, but not a contingent of other soldiers to watch it while you are gone. If you don't have a Chimera, I'm not sure where all your extra stuff might go, if you are a more mobile trooper, with only the players and comrades of your unit, and I rarely see the IG images, even the Cadians, wearing backpacks filled with their change of clothes, grooming kit, etc. It might very well just be me being dumb, but this is where playing D&D, we'd have bags of holding, or Star Wars, a "secure" ship we came in, that doesn't HAVE to bug out upon dropping us off, or might, but is more likely to come back and get us. I've had the same thoughts on Chimeras, if your group had to leave yours. Do you leave some comrades to watch it? Do they assign a soldier, or two, to do it? Do you just HOPE that Orks and SD forces don't find it, and joy ride off with it?

In the list I gave to start things, the stuff on the 'D' list would generally be left behind. And the stuff on the 'C' list would generally be left with vehicle, security element, etc. So if you were getting ready for an attack, you'd leave your 'C' stuff behind, and only attack with the A + B stuff. If you were walking around, you were likely to have A + B + C

----------------

For paratroopers, here a sample packing list from the Normandy drop in WW2:

Main and Reserve chute
helmet, wool knit cap
fatigue suit,
summer underwear
2 Pr. Socks
jump boots
rain coat
dog tags
pack
2 bars of soap
1 can of tooth powder
1 tooth brush
1 razor + 5 blades
1 towel
1 can of tobacco
4 packs of ciggarettes
4 candy bars
6 D-Rations
3 K-Rations
Bible
1 picture
1 sheet of V-Mail
3 pencils
1 pen
1 carbine + case
9 clips of ammo...135 rnds of Ammo
1 pistol + holster
36 rnds of ammo
3 fragmentation grenades
2 white phosphorus grenades
1 orange smoke grenade
1 gammon grenade
1 parachutists knife
1 trench knife
1 hunting knife
1 shovel + case
1 pr. of wire cutters
1 compass + case
2 maps
1 pistol belt
1 pr. of suspenders
1 pr. of gloves horse hide
2 pings
1 watch
1 notebook
1 canteen
gun cleaning equipment
1 can of oil
emergency heat units
delousing powder
halazone tablets [for water purification]
sulphur diazine tablets [topical antibiotic]
2 first aid kits
gas mask
BAL ointment
gas capes
M4 ointment

--------------

Looking at the list, it seems to be missing the change of underwear + undershirt that some carried, has a high proportion of D to K rations, and isn't stuck with any non-personal gear (BAR magazines, .30 cal belts, explosives, etc).

Edited by crusher bob

You might drop as a team, and they drop a crate with the rest of your stuff, but I don't know.

I recall this is how it's done with real world paratrooper units, though it may depend on the country - and I'm not sure this is up to date as I've only read about paratroopers in the Cold War, not "now".

You'll bring certain stuff with you, all the time, certainly, but I'd imagine you'd leave some of it "back at base", assuming you have one. Still, depending on how your assignment shapes up, you might not have a base, or might, but not a contingent of other soldiers to watch it while you are gone.

Modern military forces have several "tiers" of load depending on whether they're just marching or fighting. This is called load echeloning, iirc. As troops generally do not attack an enemy straight from the march but instead commit to such operations from out of a camp, they have the option to leave marching loads behind. Take this as anecdotal statements, though - I've never actually participated in an assault and have only ever served in patrol and sentry roles.

Here's an interesting article about French warfare during the Napoleonic Wars, though, or more precisely French encampments: < click > Could be useful for describing a 40k IG field camp, too!

I've had the same thoughts on Chimeras, if your group had to leave yours. Do you leave some comrades to watch it? Do they assign a soldier, or two, to do it? Do you just HOPE that Orks and SD forces don't find it, and joy ride off with it?

Technically, dismounted mechanised infantry does not include the driver. The vehicle crew would remain extra. However, that's not how things have to work in 40k, especially with so many different regiments having different tactics. Assigning Comrades to watch it is a good idea. You could also "buff up" your squad size by adding "reserve NPCs" who do not accompany the squad per se (and thus have zero mechanical effect), but just take over crew positions when you disembark.

That being said, under what circumstances would you leave the Chimaera entirely unmanned, rather than keeping one or two of the players inside? That turret should be rather useful, and the APC could give covering fire to the advancing infantry or keep sentry outside a building they are sweeping.

Also, here's an excerpt from a chapter out of Military Quantitative Physiology by Karl E. Friedl and William R. Santee:

"Until about the 18th century, troops carried loads that seldom exceeded 15 kg as they marched. Extra equipment was often moved by auxiliary transport, including assistants, horses, carts and camp followers. The extra equipment often consisted of weapons and protection used by troops when they went into battle (eg, swords and shields). After the 18th century, auxiliary transport was deemphasized, and more disciplined armies required troops to carry their own loads. The latter-day service member often carried more equipment during the march and less when in contact with hostile forces.
Greece armed his infantry with only a wooden shield, lance, and sword. They defeated a Spartan force of heavily equipped Hoplites, presumably because of their greater agility. The Hoplites carried a load of about 37 kg into battle. In the 17th century, Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden lightened his soldiers' loads by removing armor and shortening weapons. In the Boer Wars, the British Army carried only arms, ammunition, water and a haversack - a total weight of 11 kg. Soldiers in battle have often reduced loads on their own initiative. During the highly successful Shenondoah campaign, the Confederate troops under Stonewall Jackson discarded extra clothing, overcoats, and knapsacks. They carried only rifles, ammunition, food, a blanket (or rubber sheet), and the clothing they wore. American paratroopers entering Normandy in 1944 exited the aircraft with a load of about 36 kg, but once on the ground quickly discarded equipment consisdered unnecessary.
A wide variety of load-carrying systems have also been used throughout history. The Greek Hoplites used helots (serfs in ancient Sparta) to carry their equipment on the march. Carts and packs were used by Roman legions. Oliver Cromwell's armies used 'pack boys'. Napoleon used carts whenever possible to relieve his soldiers of their march loads. Camp followers also carried much of the soldiers' load during the various wars."
It is of note that at least as per the Codex Imperial Guard, IG regiments do make use of wagon trains - which is where I expect much of the extra equipment to be kept, together with possible offspring fathered by the troops (see: Cadian Whiteshields).
Notably, this can also explain the logistics behind how the Imperial Guard operates, as every regiment is a self-enclosed entity apparently not relying on "external" logistics units as is the case in modern armies. Instead, I'd expect that much like centuries ago, the Guardsmen would get most of their food from whatever planet they're fighting on - by pillaging the settlements they come across, rather than relying entirely on the Imperial Navy to keep them supplied (as that's a bit foolish, given the issues with interstellar transportation).
Edited by Lynata

The problem with needing 'local' supply is that you are very slow. Your tanks can't be driving around the countryside if you have to have a long time figuring out where your fuel, water, and food are going to come from.

Another point about paratroops, you don't get dropped and wander the country side for a while. You'll have specific objectives to take and epect to link back up with 'regular' friendly forces is 48-96 hours.

So, for example, you are dropped ahead of an advance. You have to take a bridge so that the enemy doesn't have a chance to destory it. You'll be surrounded, but your tanks are heading this way. You hold the bridge, the tanks show up and drive over it, everyone is happy. If your tanks don't show up, you probably all die horribly becuase you run out of ammunition and men.

If there's nothing you have to drop on right now, you'll fight as regular line infantry.

That may be the reason for why GW described IG engines to work with literally anything that's combustible. Tanks powered by logs from a nearby forest? SpaceTech makes it possible!

Water (especially clean water) may be more of an issue, but if I were the GM, I'd handle this with moisture extractors set up in the base camp, right next to the power generators where the troops can recharge their laspacks. However, I assume most of the time it would work just like it did in previous millennia on Earth. Except that locations of water sources etc could easily be mapped from orbiting warships scanning the planet and relaying this information to the planning staff, so they can work out a suitable strategy respecting the planet's environmental conditions (see: Season of Fire on Armageddon).

Ultimately, I find this still a lot easier than making up specialised logistics divisions (which I believe just don't fit in with the rest of IG background) or regular airdrops from a Navy that magically manages to provide a reliable supply line in spite of how the Warp works, and the reason for why the IG adopted lasguns over ballistic small arms.

Another point about paratroops, you don't get dropped and wander the country side for a while. You'll have specific objectives to take and epect to link back up with 'regular' friendly forces is 48-96 hours.

Yes, I'd expect them to return to the staging area - which will likely be located close to a source of local supplies.

The looting bit obviously applies only to regiment actually moving across the area, rather than those used for pinpoint aerial blitzes. A regiment on the ground will not have the ability to "return to base" after every battle and instead will be forced to source their supplies on the move - just like in medieval times and during the Napoleonic Wars - whereas airborne units have the advantage of being based in the hinterlands, where I assume the Imperial Guard will establish some sort of occupied zone, even setting up special companies to "tithe" the locals for food and labour. Like they did when invading Fenris:

"Any Fenrisian captured was put to work supplying the Guardsmen and laying out makeshift roads across the glacial flats. Though they were enslaved, the Fenrisians were not to be kept down easily. Several regiments of Imperial Guardsmen were kept out of the fighting to keep the slaves from revolting."

- 2E C:SoB

Hm, come to think of it, I suppose regiments assigned to collect supplies from the locals for central storage and distribution could be called a form of temporary logistics... In the end, I just want to keep the Imperial Navy out of it and preserve GW's simplistic army organisation. ;)

Edited by Lynata

I don't think you can expect any regiment, never mind a larger multi-regiment force, to survive by living off the land. No military has been able to do this since the Napoleonic Wars, and I actually don't think it would work even then. A few examples:

Your largely mechanized force is fighting across an agrarian world. No fuel, no spare parts, no cannon ammunition to be found. Period. Your force grinds to a halt or finds itself fighting as infantry with laspistols.

Your largely infantry force is fighting on a forge world. No open uncontaminated water. No food being grown (mostly brought in from off world). Your force grinds to a halt, starts to starve, and begins chowing down on the least popular member of the regiment. Force is declared heretics and orbital strikes are called down on them.

Your enemy realizes you are living off the land. They borrow a page from the Red Army, circa 1940-41, and retreats 100-500 miles burning everything behind them and poisoning water sources. There is nothing to forage. Your force, should it advance, will do so into a wasteland with no fuel, no food, no water and grind to a halt.

A mechanized modern force requires, on average (and this does take into account fuel spare parts and ammo for tanks and IFVs) 200 pounds of material per man per day to keep moving. An M1 Abrams MBT requires something on the order of 300 gallons of fuel a day for combat ops. Say a Leman Russ is twice as fuel efficient as an Abrams (unlikely in my opinion but still) and you still have 150 gallons per tank per day to fight. Chimeras and the rest are no doubt not as bad, but that's still a lot of fuel.

Take into account everything you need from just one regiment a day. Three meals, say a minimum of one pound of food per meal per man per day. Potable water. Running off memory here, it's been a while since I wore the uniform, but I want to say the equivelant of 8 to 16 cups of water per day. Uniform laundry. Don't laugh, it's important both for morale and to keep disease from running rampant. Now ammo. Sure, any generator will do to recharge the charge packs. But if you've seen combat today, that's a LOT of charge packs to power up before dawn. You also need to replenish frag and krak grenades, mortar rounds, and the solid rounds for heavy stubbers, heavy bolters, grenade and missile launchers, cannisters for plasma and melta weapon. Bayonets break or are lost. Chain swords will need new chains periodicly. Replacement weapons will be needed. Mines, sand bags, barbed wire, spare parts for all sorts of gear. Uniforms get ripped up and need replacement, frag armor gets work out (hey sometimes it keeps its guardsman alive), boots wear out, laces break.

If you rely on forage, ok, assume the world you're fighting on can sustain your force. You still have to send foragers out to get it. Small teams fan out on both flanks and steal everything that's not nailed down. Get the nails too, you'll be building stuff at some point. The bigger your force, the farther your foragers need to go to get enough. They need troops screening them, foragers will come under fire. And your main column can't move too fast or leave the foragers behind, along with their security teams and your lunch.

Now remember, the local populace is supposed to toe the line after this offensive. They now serve the God Emperor again. You just robbed them blind and their children are starving. Congrats, you've just fueled the next ten years of insurrection and guerilla warfare, tying up more regiments who will force the people they are making into loyal citizens to feed the people subjicating them.

Now multiply all this by the total number of regiments you've dropped. Say your average regiment is currently 5000 strong. Four regiments are in your area. 20000 troops. Look at food again. Each of those 20000 needs a minimum of three pounds of food a day. Assuming the region you are in even has that much food around, how many days before you ate it all?

Napoleon said an army marches on its stomach. Eisenhower said "amatuers study tactics. Professionals study logistics." Until you have a solid logistical support system in place and secure, I don't see how any force of any size can operate without the Navy supplying them from orbit.

One of the Only War books has a passage that pretty much says that many regiments are raised that are support units, not combat troops. As soon as I find it again, I'll edit it in.

Every ones vision of Warhammer is valid of course. That's one reason I like it. Having said that, since man reached the industrial age, logistics have been a huge part, and an inescapable part, of warfare. While I don't think it's necessary to stat out every aspect of this (honestly, who would ever play a member of the 10773rd Cadian Laundry Company?) I do think that GM's should remember that somewhere behind their regiment is the Beans and Bullets Brigade. They can become a part of the story. These are the guys you trade a captured Dominate battle flag to for some prime food or extra loh sticks. These are the guys you make a heroic last stand to defend when an enemy battalion slips around the flank (remember the crossroads fight in Fury). If you don't take out that AA battery, the fleet can't get your resupply down from orbit. And dammit, today is Taco Tuesday!

Which reminds me, SgtLazerous, will Imperial Aeronautica have some good sized dropships in it? Not just to get the troops and tanks dirtside, but to bring them lunch and clean underwear the following day. The lads are hungry, and being under fire for the first time can have. . . unfortunate effects on one's digestion. And drawers.

Waring a survival suit means never having to pour the wee out of your boots, it's multi-purpose; ;)

So the next question people might be asking is: so why Can't I just not carry all the supply heavy stuff in my army, so I don't need the logistics train from hell?

Answer: the army that does have the logistics train destroys you over one long, hilarious weekend. It's why I can't take orks seriously as opponents, they barely talk on the radio to each other, yet they are supposed to be able to coordinate reconnaissance, fire support, movement, logistics, and so on. They shoot madly at anything (or nothing) yet never run out of ammunition. They don't coordinate movements, but are supposed to have massive numbers at the point of contact. They don't do logistics, but are supposed to be able to support large and deep motorized offensives.

Well they are rediculously tough and probably can go without food and water form very long times. And their technology works on a basis of "clap your hands if you believe", so it doesn't need as much fuel/ammo as "normal" technology.*

Altough they also have a type of oddboy know asa slaver: those are the ones who beat the slaves (natch) but also oversee that those runts actualy do work, prep food, make ammo, and (I also assume) get the stuff to where it needs to go.

* In some recent backstory even the necrons are all "Dafuq? How does that even work?" when confronted with some special ork tech. The necrons!

One of the Only War books has a passage that pretty much says that many regiments are raised that are support units, not combat troops. As soon as I find it again, I'll edit it in.

It's quite possible - FFG's books contradict GW's material on a number of occasions, and just looking at the "standard regimental kit" alone is an obvious conflict with codex background.

Unless you are mistaking "support units" to refer to non-combat elements, when the source actually means heavy weapons teams, specialist detachments and artillery (as this is what the codex listed under this term).

Anyways, as you say, "everyone's vision of 40k is valid", so the question ultimately comes down to personal preference in regards to the different sources. The risk I am seeing here is that the Imperial Guard is too much presented like a 21st century military force with a modern understanding of organisation and logistics. If some people prefer it that way, cool - it would be no problem having the Cadians fit in with such an interpretation, though I maintain that an interstellar supply line through the Warp seems like a dangerous idea (especially as the bureaucracy is known for displacing entire planets and regiments ).

What I'm thinking of, however, is the many other types of regiments that also need to be taken into consideration, from Napoleonic-style Praetorians to Mongol-style Rough Riders all the way down to hive gangs and tribal cavemen (yes, really). Given the wildly different cultures and techlevels throughout the Imperium, the Imperial Guard operates on the basis of the lowest common denominator. This is also represented in the Departmento Munitorum's decree of every single regiment having roughly the same fighting strength for ease of organisation, which would obviously rule out specialised logistics regiments ( if one follows codex background).

Mankind has been waging large scale wars long, looong before the fairly recent development of the modern system of logistics, so I don't see why it may not be represented in 40k as well, especially when it fits so much better to many of the regiments. I should add, however, that I am of course also biased due to my preference for Games Workshop's original material, so I will always try to find means justifying them wherever possible, rather than subscribing to an alternate vision of the setting.

Lastly, we should remember that the Imperial Guard is not supposed to be perfect, or even efficient. Hardships brought on by supply shortages can very much be part of their theme, as it has been in many stories from past conflicts on Earth. So should an Imperial Guard regiment have the same problems as Napoleon's armies? I say yes.

That being said, to address some of the points you brought up:

Most of your criticism can be dealt with simply by looking at military history and how armies have operated in past eras. But for 40k-specific problems .. perhaps the various tanks of the Imperial Guard are all based on similar chassis to enable an easier swap of parts between the machines, rather than relying exclusively on stock spare parts? The engines' ability to work on local combustibles was already brought up. And as for the Forge World, since the local space port is a logical target to establish a beachhead, I would assume that the Imperial forces would simply install themselves "between" the incoming food supplies intended for the locals, and the civilian population. Plenty of examples in real world occupations for this.

It is also critical to remember that regiments that have accumulated too many casualties get merged with other units - this would not only apply to men, but also the materiel. So it would absolutely be possible for multiple tank units to be merged because they can get neither replacements not spare parts for the vehicles that have broken down or were destroyed, much like it is in the realms of possibility that a tank crew has to leave their broken down vehicle behind because it cannot be repaired and they've been transferred to an infantry unit. Such is life in the military in 999.M41.

To finish with, here's an interesting status report on an example Imperial Guard regiment that was part of the 3E codex:

  • The 9th Cardosian was largely wiped out in Col. Zurinev's abortive 'Grand All-Conquering Raid'

  • The local scouts are mounted on Xenthorpian 'laxmoots', a local riding beast noted for its evil disposition and foul odour

  • No record as to how this unit came to be attached to the 23rd Bruttium exists. It seems likely that an admin error led to them being transported to Xenthorp Major instead of the Hiatus 15th.

  • The staff cars, skimmers and transports are non-military vehicles of local design. The 'Longhaul' is capable of transporting two squads of Guardsmen and their equipment.

  • Xenthorp's Pride is a civilian system ship on permanent secondment to the 23rd Regiment. Although originally unarmed, it has been upgraded to carry a single gun-deck.

  • This company is also known as 'Barca's Commandos'. It is the only company to still have any functioning plasma weapons (three Mk97 Necromunda pattern plasma guns).

  • The 23rd Armoured Support Company is a hybrid formation made up of all the 23rd Regiment's surviving armoured vehicles (with exception of the Regimental HQ Chimaera).

  • Currently, C Platoon is based at Lesser Xenthorp's shuttleport, while the rest of the garrison is based at the mining site.

  • C Platoon consists of survivors of the 17th Malcomb Regiment. The rest of the regiment were wiped out by a virulent form of Pratt's Scurvy.

  • Ore from the mines is transported in a river steamer manned by an Administratum crew. The escort detachment is drawn from units in the rest of the garrison. The heavy bolters are mounted fore and aft on the steamer.

  • The monitoring station is one of the moons of Xenthorp 10, so all military personnel are equipped and trained in the use of type 97 pressurised combat suits. In addition, the garrison's heavy weapons have been equipped with recoil suppressors and air-feeds to allow them to operate in the conditions that prevail.

Also, a good article on the history of logistics: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/concepts_logistics.html

But, as has been pointed out before, it still comes down to what we would rather like to see, and thus .. personal preference. :)

Edited by Lynata

Regarding the Navy question, yes. There's a Superheavy Aerial Transport planned, among other things.