As a bit of a power gamer I resent that. I would just play a Sith (or Dark Jedi) or explore different options for the Light Side. Probably focusing on lightsaber techniques.

I doubt we'll see a "purely dark side" sourcebook, at least not one in the vein of WotC's OCR supplement The Dark Side Sourcebook.

The core rulebook will likely have a section going into more detail on the dark side, most likely in the GM chapter.

Also, the majority of the specs themselves can be light side or dark side already, with only the Aggressor having more of a dark side leaning than the other specs. Plus, the bulk of the RPG line itself operates under the general assumption that the PCs are, if not a bunch of a paladins, are at least morally upstanding folks. Even EotE operates under this assumption, and that's probably the one book that's more friendly to the PCs being self-serving scum.

At most, we might see a section on being dark side Force users if FFG ever does an Imperial-themed sourcebook, particularly if said sourcebook contains a section on playing a strictly Imperial campaign. Though I suspect such a book will probably be not be showing up anytime in the near future.

Why would there be specialisations for NPCS?

Specialisations are meant for PCs in this game. You can give NPCs whatever you feel they need to do what you need them to do. They are not built in the same way as regular PCs.

You're right, they wouldn't be managed like specializations are to PCs. I'm thinking perhaps of a supplementary system for GMs to enhance their inquisitors. The inquisitor-creation system in the Force and Destiny Beta, while awesome, is, in my opinion, capable of being built upon to create a truly awesome villain.

Then again, building an inquisitor like a PC by using things such as morality (evil morality, obviously) and, to a certain extent, forms of duty/obligation and motivations, could really flesh out particularly dastardly enemies the group will have to deal with on a frequent basis. Additional talents that draw from conflict could be NPC-specific with "recommended" stats for particular inquisitors.

I can see how some species (Wookiees) lean towards 'good' and some (Trandoshans) towards 'bad' - but KotORII had an evil wookiee and there was a Trandoshan Jedi who died defending wookiee cubs. Not sure we need to categorise an entire species as only one thing or another (the only Sith Pureblood in our game at present is definitely light side, the girlfriend of the PC's mentor).

I'm sorry, perhaps I should be more clear than my previous post, I don't think races should be categorized by being dark-sided or light-sided. What I'm thinking of is that the races that would be included in a dark side splatbook should be from traditionally dark cultures. Mechanically, I do not believe there should be a difference between them and any other race. Just as the upcoming diplomat sourcebook has races that are traditionally viewed as diplomatic, the dark side sourcebook should have races that are traditionally viewed as dark sided. Neither set of races should be required to be diplomats or dark side force users, respectively.

I wouldn't mind the odd Spec that seems to lean towards one side or another but I'm more than happy with how things are at the moment. Dark side characters are not necessarily baby-eating monsters, and there's no reason you couldn't have a mixed group.

Once again, I'd like to clarify that I don't believe that any specialization should automatically make somebody a dark side force user, or that, by being that particular specialization, one is automatically a baby-eating monster (I'd also like to mention off-case that I've never actually mentioned the Sith by name, as "Dark Side" is such a broad topic and group and specializations should not typecast a particular character into being of a particular faction). I also am in perfect agreement that a mixed group should absolutely be possible.

The specializations I'm talking about are ones that thrive off of conflict creation - specializations that promote conflict within oneself and others by tapping into the dark side. The purposes of such dark arts could be lightsided. Somebody could tap into their inner selfishness and passions to protect the ones they love. That's dark sided, but it's not necessarily morally wrong. Just like how the Force and Destiny Beta mentions that some aggressors intimidate to end fights before they begin, while others tap into causing fear within others before fighting. One is light-sided, the other is dark-sided.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I don't believe any sourcebook should typecast any particular character into being a particular stereotypical guy. That is bad writing.

EDIT: clarified a couple things

Given the balance the core book will probably have it might behoove them to go with a supplement exploring the extremes of both the light and dark. Any such book would be best served by the option of multiple Eras available.

Considering we just got a book on playing as a member of a Hutt cartel I think any assumptions of moral virtue in EotE are dead and buried. Next we'll probably be playing Black Sun.

While I have nothing against the idea of a darkside supplement, I have trouble thinking of anything worth printing that would need to be in a darkside book rather than coming out in multiple different supplements over time. You could easily disperse the dark side trending species through the class books and other supplements, for example.

The only thing I can't imagine fitting in another book is advice for the "Everyone's EVIL!" campaign, but I think it sounds pretty difficult to stretch, "You probably shouldn't!" throughout a whole book

How about a book on obscure force traditions instead

Considering they made a whole game out of Black Crusade I think FFG could do it. Actually they could probably get a whole book about describing Dark Side philosophy and the galaxy from the perspective of the Sith. Looking into alternate Force traditions seems to be more just a fluff and equipment book. Speaking of which hopefully they will bring out more of the variant lightsabers. I know it sounds kind of crazy but I always liked the lightfoil.

To add upon what DreadLord mentioned, they can also include information and ideas for GMs who want to create dark side temples and artifacts, as well as planetary information on traditionally dark side planets like Byss, Korriban, Dathomir, Rhen Var, and maybe the darker aspects of Yavin IV.

I could see there being a lot of information GMs would like to have in a dark side sourcebook (and a light side one too).

No no no...

I refuse to see a dark side book. Dark side stuff now has the effect that DROW did and still do DnD. This type of stuff draws the biggest mary sue players and really sucks trying to build a party when half want to be good and half want to be the next Sith lord wannabee bad ass..

Already went through this with D20 and D6.. not again.

In my experience, I find that most of the players that i played with that were drawn to the dark side stuff were using it as a an excuse to be a murder hobo.

Just NO!...

If you are the GM just don't allow them to make dark side characters or what I do is allowed my players in other games them to kill the other players characters if what they want to become gets in the way of the party and the Goals of the group.

Some times peoples stories happen to take them in such a way it gets in the way, So they either stop playing and reroll a toon and their old character pops back up as a contact or villain.

I remember the first time I started playing RT with the group I am with now. I was just a player not the GM. Joined in after a few other sessions happened. My first session and half of the other players planned to over throw the ship and take over and become pirates, more or less could change the course of the story the GM wanted to tell. The players that where in on it told the GM in private so the other players had no clue, but they bloched a few rolls and that allowed the GM to let the other half have a chance to catch on to what was going on.

The group wanted to take over made it look my toon planned to take over even tho I just came on board. So the Leader of the ship came up with an idea to have out minds probed one at a time as he asked questions to find out the truth. after going over everyone he gathered those of us he felt he could trust told us what was going on and we set up a plan to take of the traitors.

Set up a crew meeting, we each had our target. The first officer(leader of the traitors) during the meeting said he had something to tell everyone and stood up. That is when our captain gave us the order to strike and kill them. one surprise round later the traitors where dead and all that was left was them rolling up new toons. The GM had the Captain and first officer roll initiative to see who said their order first to kill the rest. So one dice roll and the other side could have just as easily been the ones making new toons.

Considering they made a whole game out of Black Crusade I think FFG could do it. Actually they could probably get a whole book about describing Dark Side philosophy and the galaxy from the perspective of the Sith. Looking into alternate Force traditions seems to be more just a fluff and equipment book. Speaking of which hopefully they will bring out more of the variant lightsabers. I know it sounds kind of crazy but I always liked the lightfoil.

See this is my thought also. People say 'just change themes and change a few things and you have imperial/darkside' My counter was the fact the same could have been said of the 40 line then they released BC(tho I am not a fan of the god tracking that system has such a pain) But at the end of the day who knows what their contact with Lucas Arts/Disney says.

Black Sun... Don't tease me with such a thought...

[...] races coming from a culture that is typically darker in mentality might be considered. [...] For example, [...] the Ewoks.

So much this.

Cant ...Unsee...No... AGRHHH!!..

Oh then you really don't want to see this:

You know you want a campaign where you quest to join Xizor's inner circle... or take over after his death.

[...] races coming from a culture that is typically darker in mentality might be considered. [...] For example, [...] the Ewoks.

So much this.

<<Funky Ewok Image>>

Cant ...Unsee...No... AGRHHH!!..

Oh then you really don't want to see this:

<<Just Wrong wrong wrong...wookie Image>>

WHATS WRONG WITH YOU?....

The answer to your question Atraangelis is, "A great many things."

You know you want a campaign where you quest to join Xizor's inner circle... or take over after his death.

We have three EoE groups at the moment (as well as an AOR And F&D group).

One is a free-wheeling, good-natured-scoundrels thing: "Something good? Something bad? A bit of both?"

One is just me as GM and a single player doing exploration missions, sort of 'Indiana Jones in Space'

And the other one is based around the players helping Savan take over Black Sun and the entire Scum& Villainy faction (Shadow Collective). It's much more grim and gritty than the others. The theme is the balance between power and freedom - the third group are amassing considerable power, but at the expense of their freedoms.

The game is set in the time frame after the Battle of Yavin. I don't think a detailed source-book about Jedi / Sith religions, movement, philosophy whatever it is called, fits very good in the product line. I think we might get information about them (Jedi/Sith) spread among different source-books, but a dedicated book for them? I don't think it is needed neither fitting.

Moreover, contrary to the 40K universe, in the SW setting there is a very clear distinction between good and evil. Empire = Evil, Sith = Evil, while the Rebels and the Jedi are the good guys; and then you have a grey zone (EotE) with people like Han Solos and Landos, yet, with a good morality. As mentioned before, this game encourages good moral behavior i.e. no slavery, no torture, no kill innocents etc. from the PCs side. In that sense, I don't think neither that we will get an Imperial book for PCs.

The game is set in the time frame after the Battle of Yavin. I don't think a detailed source-book about Jedi / Sith religions, movement, philosophy whatever it is called, fits very good in the product line. I think we might get information about them (Jedi/Sith) spread among different source-books, but a dedicated book for them? I don't think it is needed neither fitting.

Moreover, contrary to the 40K universe, in the SW setting there is a very clear distinction between good and evil. Empire = Evil, Sith = Evil, while the Rebels and the Jedi are the good guys; and then you have a grey zone (EotE) with people like Han Solos and Landos, yet, with a good morality. As mentioned before, this game encourages good moral behavior i.e. no slavery, no torture, no kill innocents etc. from the PCs side. In that sense, I don't think neither that we will get an Imperial book for PCs.

Someone hasn't been reading the discussion since we are talking about something down the line expanding the game into other eras. Also technically this can currently work for Dark Times (Post-Clone Wars, Pre-Yavin) play.

40K isn't ambiguous, all factions = evil. Moreover we just got a book allowing us to play as the Hutts, an unambiguously evil group. Also don't think EotE ever encouraged moral play. Finally if you will recall eventually the role of the Galactic Empire changes and even then there is room for moral ambiguity. For example when the Empire acts against pirates or those rebel factions that actually are terrorists and violent anarchists. That is one of the challenges that the Rebellion faces is determining which groups are legitimate in restoring the Republic and which ones are little different from the Empire.

I really hope they don't go that way, with 'dark side only' specs. I don't mind the odd one like Aggressor that leans to one side or the other, but I like the fact that there are things like Heal/Harm that have different effects for each side.

Likewise, would entire species be 'dark side only'?

They seem to have incorporated dark-side as a regular option in F&D, so I'm not sure it needs its own book.

I think this is the way to go.

You produce a dark side book if your core only allows light side players.

The way FFG is handling F&D is that light and dark are just two options available to everyone, of all different careers. The supplements should follow suit and cater to both.

I really hope they don't go that way, with 'dark side only' specs. I don't mind the odd one like Aggressor that leans to one side or the other, but I like the fact that there are things like Heal/Harm that have different effects for each side.

Likewise, would entire species be 'dark side only'?

They seem to have incorporated dark-side as a regular option in F&D, so I'm not sure it needs its own book.

I think this is the way to go.

You produce a dark side book if your core only allows light side players.

The way FFG is handling F&D is that light and dark are just two options available to everyone, of all different careers. The supplements should follow suit and cater to both.

The whole idea that some races are "Dark Side only" seems to suggest that some players are slipping back into the old "races of hats" thinking that was discarded several novels ago. Now there are some races more closely associated with the Dark Side than others. However if they are going to have Jedi-specific talent trees then they need Sith-specific trees to represent the differences in the Sith Order's training and philosophy beyond merely using the Dark Side.

Additionally they should consider mentioning other orders and what trees best represent them or, should they be too distinct, offer a tree to show that training.

From the articles it seems they are assuming players will be seeking to become Jedi. As cool as the Jedi are, given the era other traditions should be highlighted at this point in time. That said this creates the needs for supplements for people interested in other orders. Considering the Sith's ties to other eras it would make sense to create a book for them, possibly as a tie-in to introducing other eras for play. The worst thing they could do would be to bring in the arm twisting into heroism that West End Games did.

Light/Dark options for the power trees make sense but Light/Dark exclusive talent trees would not. After all TOR proves falling to the "wrong" side of the Force can happen to people on either side of the isle.

I guess the release schedule will be like the ones we see in EotE and AoR. Books dedicated to expand the existing careers with three new specialisations and three new races, equipment etc, together with adventure books. In EotE we also have sector books. So far there is no equivalent of these books in AoR.

I can't see a Dark Side supplement for two reasons.

A) Everything FFG has released thus far involving the Force has stuck to the rule that it's not what you can do with the Force that makes you good / evil, it's how you use it. If there is exclusively Dark Side or exclusively Light Side stuff, it takes away the behavior factor and regresses back to SAGA's stone age morality systems. Thus far, no career or Force Power is specific to light or dark, and I would hate it if FFG ruined that balance.

B) For people suggesting other eras, I'm still not sure that will ever happen. Take KotOR, for instance. All weapons (except those exclusive to a region of space) are generically labeled, so we don't need new gear. We have Battle Meditation, and most every other Force power you could want (I'm against system bloat). F&D's careers can reflect any Jedi or Dark Sider that we see in the games, and honestly, AoR can handle anyone in the Republic or Sith armies. If we got an era book, it would be a collection of starships and NPC statblocks, I think, which I find easy enough to re-brand, re-flavor, and re-spec.

Now what I could see would be a specialization or two, that, against my highest hopes, revolves around a single Force tradition, like the Matukai, Jensaarai, etc. I hope they don't, but those are more likely than a Dark Side book in my mind.

I can't see a Dark Side supplement for two reasons.

A) Everything FFG has released thus far involving the Force has stuck to the rule that it's not what you can do with the Force that makes you good / evil, it's how you use it. If there is exclusively Dark Side or exclusively Light Side stuff, it takes away the behavior factor and regresses back to SAGA's stone age morality systems. Thus far, no career or Force Power is specific to light or dark, and I would hate it if FFG ruined that balance.

B) For people suggesting other eras, I'm still not sure that will ever happen. Take KotOR, for instance. All weapons (except those exclusive to a region of space) are generically labeled, so we don't need new gear. We have Battle Meditation, and most every other Force power you could want (I'm against system bloat). F&D's careers can reflect any Jedi or Dark Sider that we see in the games, and honestly, AoR can handle anyone in the Republic or Sith armies. If we got an era book, it would be a collection of starships and NPC statblocks, I think, which I find easy enough to re-brand, re-flavor, and re-spec.

Now what I could see would be a specialization or two, that, against my highest hopes, revolves around a single Force tradition, like the Matukai, Jensaarai, etc. I hope they don't, but those are more likely than a Dark Side book in my mind.

Don't forget the world information and write-ups of important planets of those eras. That is why you could get these done in one book per setting (probably per game to give sufficient diversity).

Even given the way that they are handling the Force (and hopefully they will not screw up that up) a book on Dark Side themed traditions would be just as likely. However most of the job specializations are broad enough that they could encompass most Force traditions so they would only need really work on those traditions that are extremely exotic. Actually even those could be handled differently. For example the witches of Dathomir could be handled with a class providing wilderness and combat skills along with Force powers to help beast riding (such as riding rancors).

I could see a faction book much like the region books (Suns of Fortune and Lords of Nal Hutta). New races, equipment, ships, and world information and adventure nuggets. Careers will be covered well in the career books I would say. But an Empire or Sith faction book would probably work well.

I am kinda hoping they depart from the standard career supplements for Force and Destiny and give us Universal Specialties for Jedi Knight/Jedi Master possible Sith Apprentice/Sith Master with a Force Rating prerequisite of 4+/6+ and signature abilities at the end of each tree, though that's pure wishlisting and I doubt it would happen

Knight, master, these are just titles. We don't need trees to have them. And the signature abilities that will be in the F&D career books should do well in "unleashing" more powers, I would say.

I am kinda hoping they depart from the standard career supplements for Force and Destiny and give us Universal Specialties for Jedi Knight/Jedi Master possible Sith Apprentice/Sith Master with a Force Rating prerequisite of 4+/6+ and signature abilities at the end of each tree, though that's pure wishlisting and I doubt it would happen

Mouthymerc is right... Specialization titles are not in-game titles. I understand that half the point is about higher-tier specializations, but, like Edge of the Empire Colonists, not everyone in the Colonist career is a colonist (like, go set up civilization on a new world colonist) in-game...