Hi all,

So, I was thinking about the beta update where a specific talent in the Agressor specialization now gave 1 conflict whenever it was used. I remember the change occuring with the reason of "setting presidence". This had me thinking, "setting presidence for what?" One idea that I came up with was that perhaps they may end up creating a supplement meant exclusively for dark side specializations, or rather, universal specializations that rack up conflict in exchange for cool abilities.

I don't think it's unrealistic to think they will create a book full of universal specializations and "dark side" force using races, but I'm curious about what you guys think? Do you guys think it's feasable? If not, why? And if so (or whether or not you think so, I want to bounce ideas off of you guys), what kind of specializations do you think we could see that would really complement itself to a purely dark side user?

Thanks for reading!

EDIT: I also want to include in the question, what kind of dark side races do you think might be in such a supplement, too?

I can so see a Sith and Jedi books with Universals being the focus, but alas, we will get more splat for each of the core careers

Its definitely possible we will see a Dark Side/Sith supplement just as likely we see a Light Side/Jedi supplement and an Imperial/Rebellion specific splatbooks, though I don't expect them anytime soon. Career books and regional sourcebooks alone will probably eat up the next 2 years. Plus from a narrative standpoint playing "evil" is usually harder to develop content for players as it takes a more mature roleplay group to do so.

I can see a distinctly dark flavored specialization in the splat books. But i don't see a Jedi or sith book for a good long while. I think after the next 2 career books are finished for edge we will have a better idea how the future will shape up.

I really hope they don't go that way, with 'dark side only' specs. I don't mind the odd one like Aggressor that leans to one side or the other, but I like the fact that there are things like Heal/Harm that have different effects for each side.

Likewise, would entire species be 'dark side only'?

They seem to have incorporated dark-side as a regular option in F&D, so I'm not sure it needs its own book.

Likewise, would entire species be 'dark side only'?

I could see them including species that have a propensity for being Dark Side like Sith Purebloods, Massassi, or Deshades, but not giving them any mechanical inclinations towards the dark side.

No no no...

I refuse to see a dark side book. Dark side stuff now has the effect that DROW did and still do DnD. This type of stuff draws the biggest mary sue players and really sucks trying to build a party when half want to be good and half want to be the next Sith lord wannabee bad ass..

Already went through this with D20 and D6.. not again.

In my experience, I find that most of the players that i played with that were drawn to the dark side stuff were using it as a an excuse to be a murder hobo.

Just NO!...

Reason I support the eventual creation of play the bad guys supplements, is not from a desire to do so, and I agree it tends to create intra party conflicts even among purely bad guy groups.

If FFG doesn't create it fans will, which means there was obviously a demand.

If created late in the games life cycle it serves to fill in the gaps for content and offer a sort of advanced nemesis creation content to use.

Definitely not a fan of making species exclusive in the rules though, let GMs houserule that sort of stuff in their own campaigns

Each actual Carrier/speciaizations are considered light/dark already, feel free to imagine that they are Jedi, Sith, Dathomir or anything else

Also there are a few "dark/harming" powers. So, personally, I don't see any need of a "dark side" book. Interpretations seems pretty open

I really hope they don't go that way, with 'dark side only' specs. I don't mind the odd one like Aggressor that leans to one side or the other, but I like the fact that there are things like Heal/Harm that have different effects for each side.

Likewise, would entire species be 'dark side only'?

They seem to have incorporated dark-side as a regular option in F&D, so I'm not sure it needs its own book.

Perhaps I should specify what I meant by "dark side specializations". I didn't mean "dark side only" in terms of specializations requiring the person to be dark side or that the person will inevitably be dark side. What I meant was that the specializations, like the aggressor, will straddle the line and increase conflict in exchange for powerful talents. For example, one specialization might be a traditionally darkish lightsaber technique like Juyo, or a specialization that provides an additional temporary force rating early-ish in the career in exchange for a buttload of conflict and strain, etc. (These are just ideas I randomly threw out there off the top of my head, we can discuss the overpoweredness nature of them with that in consideration in mind). While these aren't "dark side only", they are a little darker in nature.

The same thing would be for the races in the supplement. Sorry for not elaborating on that. It would be a little silly to have "dark side only" races, but races coming from a culture that is typically darker in mentality might be considered. Mechanically, as kaosoe mentions, they wouldn't have any particular inclination towards the dark side. For example, Dathomirians would be a great inclusion in the game, as well as the Abyssin peoples and the Ewoks, too.

No no no...

I refuse to see a dark side book. Dark side stuff now has the effect that DROW did and still do DnD. This type of stuff draws the biggest mary sue players and really sucks trying to build a party when half want to be good and half want to be the next Sith lord wannabee bad ass..

Already went through this with D20 and D6.. not again.

In my experience, I find that most of the players that i played with that were drawn to the dark side stuff were using it as a an excuse to be a murder hobo.

Just NO!...

As mentioned prior, the idea might be to make the specializations relatively gray in flavor text, and simply make it easier to increase conflict in exchange for awesome abilities. This is what I was originally thinking for "dark side specializations". I don't think, mechanically, it would make sense to have a supplement that literally forces players into a particular type of character. That wouldn't be fair.

Greymere brought up an excellent point about it potentially being specializations meant specifically for nemeses. Perhaps (and I'm just throwing around ideas and hypotheticals) there could be specializations explicitly meant for helping the gm make awesome inquisitors with the nemesis rules from Edge of the Empire in mind? Perhaps, while the specializations are not recommended for players, they could still be used if the GM allows it.

Thank you guys so much for your input!

I do like the idea of conflict talents but I would want talents that would reduce conflict as well. The game is supposed to be balanced if there were only dark leaning trees that would dilute this flavor somewhat.

[...] races coming from a culture that is typically darker in mentality might be considered. [...] For example, [...] the Ewoks.

So much this.

I do like the idea of conflict talents but I would want talents that would reduce conflict as well. The game is supposed to be balanced if there were only dark leaning trees that would dilute this flavor somewhat.

I hadn't really thought of that before! While not necessarily a thing to put in a dark side sourcebook, I could easily imagine a specialization with a talent that says something along the lines of "once per session, may remove 1 conflict" or "once per session, remove 1 conflict and gain 1 strain per every rank in X".

[...] races coming from a culture that is typically darker in mentality might be considered. [...] For example, [...] the Ewoks.

So much this.

DARTH YUB NUB APPROACHES

I really hope they don't go that way, with 'dark side only' specs. I don't mind the odd one like Aggressor that leans to one side or the other, but I like the fact that there are things like Heal/Harm that have different effects for each side.

Likewise, would entire species be 'dark side only'?

They seem to have incorporated dark-side as a regular option in F&D, so I'm not sure it needs its own book.

I didn't say darkside only. I said distinctly dark side flavored. Similar to how aggressor is very darkside flavored but not darkside.

[...] races coming from a culture that is typically darker in mentality might be considered. [...] For example, [...] the Ewoks.

So much this.

Cant ...Unsee...No... AGRHHH!!..

Why would there be specialisations for NPCS?

Specialisations are meant for PCs in this game. You can give NPCs whatever you feel they need to do what you need them to do. They are not built in the same way as regular PCs.

I can see how some species (Wookiees) lean towards 'good' and some (Trandoshans) towards 'bad' - but KotORII had an evil wookiee and there was a Trandoshan Jedi who died defending wookiee cubs. Not sure we need to categorise an entire species as only one thing or another (the only Sith Pureblood in our game at present is definitely light side, the girlfriend of the PC's mentor).

I wouldn't mind the odd Spec that seems to lean towards one side or another but I'm more than happy with how things are at the moment. Dark side characters are not necessarily baby-eating monsters, and there's no reason you couldn't have a mixed group.

All of the careers in FaD are force users, right (don't have the beta)? We will eventually get sourcebooks for each of those careers assuming FFG Star Wars last long enough. I imagine spread between those sourcebooks we should have lots of stuff that otherwise could have found its way into dark/light side books.

I see a lot of potential for such a book, especially if it is around the times of books for the different Eras of play (probably mostly fluff and different droids and vehicles). Since three races is the norm I would say the three most connected to the Dark Side. Pureblood Sith are a natural choice. The Rataka are also good picks given that they have an even longer and darker history with the Rataka Infinite Empire. Finally I would pick the Kesh from the Legacy Era as they are a species that have been completely incorporated into a Sith society.

Ideally this would come out around the same time as a book for Age of Rebellion in playing the Empire. Other than that it would be nice to see books for different eras of play in all three series. For example given the topic how many would like to play at the height of the Sith Empire? Or a Legacy Era campaign where you, as a Sith, are questing to resurrecting the Sith Empire against the combined threat of the Jedi, Galactic Alliance and Galactic Empire.

Actually you could draw on the ideas from TOR to have Sith classes and other Dark Side leaning classes where there is an option of going Light.

As with any such campaign it would take a more mature gaming group. Or at least a group that can direct their pathologies outside the group... which describes some heroic groups I have known.

[...] races coming from a culture that is typically darker in mentality might be considered. [...] For example, [...] the Ewoks.

So much this.

AAAWyeah so awesome!!!

Me i'm all for a Dark side sourcebook. Untill we get one this will have to do:

That and the novels.

Another argument in favor though. A Dark Side book could be a lead in to classes for the Dawn of the Jedi Era, when there was balance between the two sides. The big risk there would be the same as the Chaotic Stupid argument from before. People trying to "be in balance" by doing horribly evil things.

One way to prevent that would be to cast the Light and Dark Sides the way the novels were working towards. The Light being serenity and the power that sustains and grows things while the Dark is passion and the powers of creation and destruction. In that case the debate is no longer good/evil but order/chaos.

And if this is like any of the other SW RPGs you're gonna get players making "redeemed dark jedi" just so they can take force choke and sith lightning. Might aswell just let 'em play sith then..

They were not called Jedi then. Also there would be no reason to do that as Force lightning and Force Choke (which is how Luke killed the two Gammorian guards at the start of E6) are part of the standard package. Remember this is before the Jedi and Sith existed. That said if you slip too much one way you are stranded on one of Tython's moons (Bogan or Ashla) until you regain balance. That would be the biggest hurdle, giving the GM the power to banish a character for going light/dark (both are implied to be bad).

A "redeemed" Jedi wouldn't use Dark Side powers for fear of relapsing to the Dark Side.

I know but my pint was you always get some power gamer in thegroup who will try something like that.