The question is this; can a player at the CoC with Pandora's box use anything besides the Nether Realm deck?

I found this stated elsewhere here on the forums:

"you would not be able to take an object or gold unless it was stated on the alternate ending card.

From the frostmarch rules: "When using the Alternative Ending Cards, characters on the Crown of Command must encounter the Alternative Ending Card and follow the rules printed on the card"

This eludes to the idea items, spells, and such cannot be used. But I also found this on BGG:

"The player who is lucky enough gets to draw 6 cards for each character in the game (including himself) and use them AGAINST his opponents!"

The argument stems off of an enemy handed out that counts all players fate for the creature's Strength or Craft (I can't remember which).

The argument is that the player at the CoC cannot count his fate to make the creature stronger cause he can only use the Nether Deck.

Also used for this argument was text on the Nether Realm instructions, written in italics were something to the effect:

The Nether Realm Deck needs to be used for this Alternate ending.

The player was including the word "only" without the word only there but it being implied. I also shared that italics are flavor text. I also shared it was an general understanding in playing these alternate endings you need the deck.

I believe that since you count the player with Pandora's box for how many cards to use, you would also count their fate for the creature's stat.

If true, the argument may be made, can they use that fate? can they fate the monster's rolls from the Nether Deck?

This then evolved into using spells or other items. I say no.

The player believes that the character disappears and becomes the Pandora's box.

Sadly I believe the only thing the character gets, is to count himself as a character, and his fate, and get's nothing else.

Please weigh in.

Thanks!

Hmm. A character on the Crown doesn't "disappear."

A character on the Crown either

a) encounters a character on the crown, if permitted or required by the Ending, or

b) encounters the space, which would be all the face up Adventure Cards on the space (if any) and then the space instructions (the text in the ending).

In the case of Pandora's Box, the "space instructions" would be to use a Nether Card against another player. I don't think it's any more complex than that. The player on the Crown is still in the game for the purposes of effects, isn't he? And you would count his fate for the Enemy you are referring to?

For example, you could even kill the character on the Crown with a spell, such as a Finger of Death multiplied by a Hydra Spell. Or you could cast Acquisition on him and take an object or gold.

Does that answer your question? Of course Jon New would be the authority here.

The question is this; can a player at the CoC with Pandora's box use anything besides the Nether Realm deck?

The answer is: it depends. Surely Artaterxes is right in saying that he does not disappear and is always considered a character in play, even though the Ending prevents other players from reaching him on the CoC.

I must say your question is a bit convoluted and difficult to follow, so I'm replying point-wise to be sure that each part has been understood.

The question is this; can a player at the CoC with Pandora's box use anything besides the Nether Realm deck?

I found this stated elsewhere here on the forums:

"you would not be able to take an object or gold unless it was stated on the alternate ending card.

From the frostmarch rules: "When using the Alternative Ending Cards, characters on the Crown of Command must encounter the Alternative Ending Card and follow the rules printed on the card"

This eludes to the idea items, spells, and such cannot be used.

The first statement has not much sense taken out of its context and is probably wrong in any case. It would be nice to read the topic where it comes from.

The Frostmarch rules, which are used for any expansion with Alternative Endings, are put that way only to replace the basic rules for the Crown of Command space, i.e. a character alone rolls the die to cast the Command Spell and multiple characters encounter each other. Following the rules printed on the card (or the basic rules) doesn't imply that nothing else may be done while at the CoC.

But I also found this on BGG:

"The player who is lucky enough gets to draw 6 cards for each character in the game (including himself) and use them AGAINST his opponents!"

Again a statement out of context but probably related to Pandora's Box. It summarizes what happens with the Pandora's Box ending, but is far from being an explanation where each used word matters.

The argument stems off of an enemy handed out that counts all players fate for the creature's Strength or Craft (I can't remember which).

The argument is that the player at the CoC cannot count his fate to make the creature stronger cause he can only use the Nether Deck.

Also used for this argument was text on the Nether Realm instructions, written in italics were something to the effect:

The Nether Realm Deck needs to be used for this Alternate ending.

The player was including the word "only" without the word only there but it being implied. I also shared that italics are flavor text. I also shared it was an general understanding in playing these alternate endings you need the deck.

I believe that since you count the player with Pandora's box for how many cards to use, you would also count their fate for the creature's stat.

The Enemy is the Nether Golem. It has Craft equal to the total number of fate tokens held by all characters. How would you treat this card if it was encountered during the Gauntlet or the Hunt endings? Just do the same when Pandora's box is used, there are no instructions to do otherwise. The instruction is that characters treat cards used against them as thought they've just encountered them.

Italics are no flavour text on Alternative Endings. Just as you said, they serve as a reminder that you have to include certain components in order to play with that Ending. It's exactly what is written!

If true, the argument may be made, can they use that fate? can they fate the monster's rolls from the Nether Deck?

This then evolved into using spells or other items. I say no.

The player believes that the character disappears and becomes the Pandora's box.

Sadly I believe the only thing the character gets, is to count himself as a character, and his fate, and get's nothing else.

Using fate on Enemies' rolls is against the normal rules and would require a specific statement. I wouldn't even think about that.

Spells can be used by the character on the Crown, as well as against him (provided the casting conditions are met).

The character on the Crown is still there and he doesn't "become the Pandora's Box". This is just thinking out-of-the-box (pun intended), which is a very common tendency of Talisman players. Just rely on the text and not on any fancy ideas you have about the context. If you want a proof of this, the ending says that if the deck of Nether Cards is depleted, the character on the Crown is killed and the survivors win the game. So we still have a character on the Crown, not a Box.

There's still a small grey zone, consisting in the character on the Crown being killed (very unlikely, but possible) or moved out of the Crown (with Path of Destiny) before all of the Nether Cards are used. In that case, I would just reset the ending as no conditions on the card could be met.

Sources:

So no, you would not be able to take an object or gold unless it was stated on the alternate ending card. From the frostmarch rules: "When using the Alternative Ending Cards, characters on the Crown of Command must encounter the Alternative Ending Card and follow the rules printed on the card" is here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/99277-crown-of-command-character-battles/?hl=command

The player who is lucky enough gets to draw 6 cards for each character in the game (including himself) and use them AGAINST his opponents!

source:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1164158/talisman-nether-realm-expansion-review

But I think you guys answered my questions, I will do more follow up later, gotta watch the Packers beat the Seahawks.

Sources:

So no, you would not be able to take an object or gold unless it was stated on the alternate ending card. From the frostmarch rules: "When using the Alternative Ending Cards, characters on the Crown of Command must encounter the Alternative Ending Card and follow the rules printed on the card" is here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/99277-crown-of-command-character-battles/?hl=command

Ok, that line was referred to the Battle Royale ending and is perfectly understandable in that context. In fact, during Battle Royale endgame attacks, characters may only take life as a reward.

The other statement was part of a review and was an alternative way to tell what happens with Pandora's Box Ending. It's not meant to clarify anything, therefore I won't take it as an additional explanation.

I tried to find statements/rules to back up different positions. I for one did not believe that the character disappears. I do however believe since you count the player at the CoC would be a great indication you would count his fate.

But if there are better more absolute rules I would like them. However it is acceptable to hear some more veteran/expert views on this.

Thanks!

i like the original pandora's box rules form 2nd ed, which basicly was you roll 1 die at the star tof your tune and draw that many adventure and spell cards that can be used on any player at any time during their turn (including your own)

I thought it was a stupid ending in second edition. Besides being overly vague you're more likely to beef up your enemies at a rapid pace then you are to kill them, at least by the time a character is strong enough to reach the CoC. Nether realm cards are punishing.