Trying to develop a list that helps counter the Wave V meta.

Specifically, I'm trying to handle a Dash Corran list and a Decimator Whisper list.

Initial thoughts:

Howlrunner

PTL Stealth Device

BSP

Wingman

Academy Pilot x2

Soontir Fel PTL Stealth Hull Upgrade

99 Pts for initiative is against whisper lists

Every round Howlrunner turtles and BSP strips the stress at start of combat phase so Howlrunner can stay in formation. Soontir is there to get into the donut or run a whisper dogfight. Mini swarm will do well against decimators.

Any feedback or other lists that you guys have been thinking of to counter the age of the fat turrets?

Howlrunner (18)

VI (1)

Mauler Mithel (17)

Predator (3)

Dark Curse (16)

Stealth Device (3)

Winged Gundark (15)

Carnor Jax (26)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Total : 100

I like Carnor's ability to mitigate any focus or evade actions a ship may have taken. At PS10, Carnor moving last and getting into range 1 ensures that Dash can't use a focus for offense or defense, Ysanne can't activate, Whisper's extra focus would be useless (if Whisper can even hit whatever is in its path) and it really forces the opponent into using some other action after their initial action economy is messed up.

Dark Curse + Stealth Device is excellent against Corran and Dash, and it makes focus tokens equally useless. Often it forces the enemy ships into barrel rolling or TLing ships out of arc since TLs can't be used against Dark Curse.

Howlrunner and Mauler at range 1 are devastating to larger ships, while Gundark's ability to dish out crits can end a shieldless Phantom or cripple shieldless Han / Dash / Decimators.

What about running Whisper to counter Dash and other Phantoms?

100 pts

Whisper

- ACD

- VI

- FCS

Howlrunner

- PTL

BSP

- Wingman

Academy x2

I do t like these howl w/ PTL plus wingman bearing black squadrons. Six points for a focus or an evade is too many points spent trying to get that action. with the range 1 restriction in place anyway surely you're better taking a DTF black and having here points left over you could even take two for that price point and they benefit the rest of your squad more too

Fair enough. It stands up ok with so few ships in the current meta. Especially with a stealth device, it makes range 3 Howlrunner tough to hit. The sooner opponents focus on the easier pickings academy pilots, you have a distinct advantage. It's more of a mental deterrent.

biggest problem with fel will be to get Dash in range 1...With Dash's ability and the barrel roll action its harder than you think to catch up to him.

a Omicron Pilot with Advanced Sensors and Engine Upgrade can catch him more I feel.

I'm stuck with the same problem. I'd like to be competitive at the store championship tournament that's coming up but I'm not seeing a lot of options against the Wave 5 ships and Fat Han that don't involve just flying one of them.

I think the limited number of ships do make them particular vulnerable to control lists but I don't have much experience flying Rebels and lack the R3-A2 that a list like that would need and am worried that the 1 Agility ships that tend to have the most control options wouldn't stick around long enough to be relevant.

Do you have tacticians, b wings and a y wing? I'm sure you could borrow a Stressbot from somebody for the tournament. That worlds control list that made top 32 was pretty slick.

I agree that it's a join 'em type conclusion almost. Dash with those barrel rolls really needs a large based ship that moves after him, has a turret and also has an engine upgrade to get into that donut effectively. That leaves Kenkirk with VI, Chiraneau or Han essentially. Possibly boba Fett, but he's over costed for his ability just for that PS.

I'm going to try a mini swarm soontir list tonight and see how it fares against wave 5.

I'm also thinking possibly Firesprays could do it as well if you can guess correctly to stay in arc.

biggest problem with fel will be to get Dash in range 1...With Dash's ability and the barrel roll action its harder than you think to catch up to him.

a Omicron Pilot with Advanced Sensors and Engine Upgrade can catch him more I feel.

Also, if I'm flying him... I'm not afraid of carrying stress for 2 turns to stay close and hit my target.. Fel is a great arc dodger and all around heavy hitter... it only turns bad when he gets that good hit and bad green dice roll.. lol that's the truth of it

By the way.. I'm the guy with 5 cosmic albino manatees.. I love the OGP but it isn't a Soontir Fel... by any stretch of the concept..

biggest problem with fel will be to get Dash in range 1...With Dash's ability and the barrel roll action its harder than you think to catch up to him.

a Omicron Pilot with Advanced Sensors and Engine Upgrade can catch him more I feel.

Please tell me you're joking.. Fel with PtL can barrel roll and boost plus get a focus every turn. In close quarters he's a beast against anyone, and he will have a better chance of staying in that range 1 donut Dash has...

Also, if I'm flying him... I'm not afraid of carrying stress for 2 turns to stay close and hit my target.. Fel is a great arc dodger and all around heavy hitter... it only turns bad when he gets that good hit and bad green dice roll.. lol that's the truth of it

By the way.. I'm the guy with 5 cosmic albino manatees.. I love the OGP but it isn't a Soontir Fel... by any stretch of the concept..

He's got a point. If Dash pulls 4 straight right through an asteroid there's no way that Fel will end up in range 1, especially if Fel had to use PTL the previous turn.

Uhhh.. green straight moves on a squint dial, and I dont mind rolling a die after crossing an asteroid... lose the fear and fly like you'll live forever.. haha.. "Asteroids don't concern me.."

So... no he doesn't have a point.. fear isn't the answer to flying these ships.. risk is what squints are about.. I guess I just fly them differently then..

Uhhh.. green straight moves on a squint dial, and I dont mind rolling a die after crossing an asteroid... lose the fear and fly like you'll live forever.. haha.. "Asteroids don't concern me.."

So... no he doesn't have a point.. fear isn't the answer to flying these ships.. risk is what squints are about.. I guess I just fly them differently then..

Dash's 4 straight is the equivalent distance as Soontir's 5 straight, so Dash will have put distance between the two. Soontir isn't going to have an action to be able to close the distance after the move. Even if you ignore the 50% chance of Soontir taking damage from an Asteroid he'll likely end up at range 2 with no tokens to modify his rolls.

4 B-wings will do it. AS or FCS.

Uhhh.. green straight moves on a squint dial, and I dont mind rolling a die after crossing an asteroid... lose the fear and fly like you'll live forever.. haha.. "Asteroids don't concern me.."

So... no he doesn't have a point.. fear isn't the answer to flying these ships.. risk is what squints are about.. I guess I just fly them differently then..

Dash's 4 straight is the equivalent distance as Soontir's 5 straight, so Dash will have put distance between the two. Soontir isn't going to have an action to be able to close the distance after the move. Even if you ignore the 50% chance of Soontir taking damage from an Asteroid he'll likely end up at range 2 with no tokens to modify his rolls.

Just depends on how you fly the ship I guess.. honestly, I'd probably fly Fel further out, so a turn or bank around the asteroid, and then boost and barrel roll into range one if I could, but be more than happy to put that asteroid between me and an opponent.. it's ok, not everyone knows how to fly squints.. the options are endless, and a PtL Fel is awesome.. so are 2 royal guards with PtL.. squints are the quintessential arc dodger, and flown right they dominate.. though a good attack and poor green dice toss can wreck their day.. not gonna lie.. lol

Uhhh.. green straight moves on a squint dial, and I dont mind rolling a die after crossing an asteroid... lose the fear and fly like you'll live forever.. haha.. "Asteroids don't concern me.."So... no he doesn't have a point.. fear isn't the answer to flying these ships.. risk is what squints are about.. I guess I just fly them differently then..

Dash's 4 straight is the equivalent distance as Soontir's 5 straight, so Dash will have put distance between the two. Soontir isn't going to have an action to be able to close the distance after the move. Even if you ignore the 50% chance of Soontir taking damage from an Asteroid he'll likely end up at range 2 with no tokens to modify his rolls.

Just depends on how you fly the ship I guess.. honestly, I'd probably fly Fel further out, so a turn or bank around the asteroid, and then boost and barrel roll into range one if I could, but be more than happy to put that asteroid between me and an opponent.. it's ok, not everyone knows how to fly squints.. the options are endless, and a PtL Fel is awesome.. so are 2 royal guards with PtL.. squints are the quintessential arc dodger, and flown right they dominate.. though a good attack and poor green dice toss can wreck their day.. not gonna lie.. lol

I'm not saying that Fel has no chance of getting into range one of Dash. I'm just trying to point out that Fel could have a rough time of it if Dash's main focus is to keep Fel out of his donut.

I wonder if a pair of shuttles with Fel might be effective. Use the shuttles as blockers to try to limit where the opponent can run.

Fel w/PTL + Royal Guard + SD + HU (36)

Omicron w/FCS + Tactician + Gunner (30)

The buzzsaw stress from the shuttle might help. That leaves 34 for TIEs or 30 if you want EU on the shuttle. Backstabber and Dark Curse come in at 32. A pair of Black Squads with Predator would be 34. You could also bring a pair of Scimitars for 32 to beef up the number of HPs you're bringing and their dials are more conducive to slow rolling with the shuttle.

Fel w/PTL + Royal Guard + SD + HU (36)

Omicron w/FCS + Tactician + Gunner (30)

The buzzsaw stress from the shuttle might help. That leaves 34 for TIEs or 30 if you want EU on the shuttle. Backstabber and Dark Curse come in at 32. A pair of Black Squads with Predator would be 34. You could also bring a pair of Scimitars for 32 to beef up the number of HPs you're bringing and their dials are more conducive to slow rolling with the shuttle.

this has some merit.. it wouldn't be a bad build.. either a couple named TIEs or another Squint.

So I play tested tonight:

Opponent flew:

Dash

PTL

HLC

Title

Kyle

EU

Corran

VI

FCS

R2D2

I flew two separate lists.

List 1:

Soontir

PTL Stealth

Howlrunner

VI

Academy Pilot x4

The game was technically a stalemate after 60min. That being said, my opponent was getting shafted on his offensive rolls and had great defense rolls. So not much damage done either side, after 60 min we rest and I tried a different list. My thoughts:

The mini swarm, although dice-wise is efficient enough to kill dash or Corran, you are so bulky in moving them, I didn't get in arc with all 5 swarm every round cause of Dash's boost barrel roll and corran's barrel roll. Dash moves so fast that his 4v3 vs the TIEs 2v3 just didn't get the job done very quickly. Although I did have his Dash cornered at the end and likely would have killed it the next round. Anyway, it was just frustrating having dash constantly boost out of arc.

List 2:

Soontir

PTL

Stealth

RAC

VI

EU

Dark Curse

I dropped Corran with this list and didn't some decent blocking with DC. RAC with that boost is great getting into the donut as well as Soontir. Also, he would be a nice anti phantom counter.

And Soontir boost barrel roll is ok against dash. In order to do your 4 green straight you have to be BEHIND Dash. I recommend approaching from the flank, staying out of range 3 until you can get in there into at least range 2, hopefully I to the donut. I also engaged for a round against dash straight on, then broke off with 4 forward getting out of range until I could come about.

Thoughts on this against other Wave V lists?

It seems like that may suffer in match-ups against other Decimators. I'm assuming that most Decimator lists you run up against will be Whisper + RAC with one of the two of those ships using Rebel Captive. You've got the Admirial shooting before Fel which seems like a good thing if one of them is going to be stuck with a stress. Your VT-49 is probably going to lose the damage race against your opponent since they are likely to have either Predator or PTL (so they are boosting and taking a TL) giving them rerolls or Expose giving them an extra die of damage. They are also likey to have Ysane to save them 2-4 points of hull unless you are burning them down quickly. Dark Curse loses some of his sexiness against the Admiral since he is able to modify attack rolls without rerolling or spending a focus.

You are going to be able to do well against Whisper as Fel and RAC are both able to deal with her. If you are able to burn Whisper down quickly that should help to level the playing field. I think if you try to take out the other VT-49 first it'll be enough of a slog that your opponent's superior firepower will drop RAC before you can take him down. Then Fel will be in a posistion that he'll need to be on the attack since your opponent can afford to delay and have Whisper hide in the safety of the VT-49s arc until time runs out.

Good points all as I have not played against a Decimator Phantom list. My meta is probably 60-70% rebels so I was primarilary working to counter Dash and Corran. Having that extra ship (Dark Curse) helped there with blocking and an extra two dice. I threw him right I to the fray with the mindset of: 'attack him because he's a threat and each round then is a round my Decimator isn't being targeted' or 'ignore him and he'll wear you down slowly with 2-3 more Attack dice'.

I didn't use EU every time, only when it suited me to get into Dash's donut or out of Corrans arc. So some rounds I used TL which was obvious better even than predator. You're right though some things the list was missing points for was Rebel captive and Isard. Should I drop DC for those points on RAC?

RAC

Predator

Rebel Captive

Isard

Jerrjod?

EU

Soontir

Stealth

PTL

Hull?

Good points all as I have not played against a Decimator Phantom list. My meta is probably 60-70% rebels so I was primarilary working to counter Dash and Corran. Having that extra ship (Dark Curse) helped there with blocking and an extra two dice. I threw him right I to the fray with the mindset of: 'attack him because he's a threat and each round then is a round my Decimator isn't being targeted' or 'ignore him and he'll wear you down slowly with 2-3 more Attack dice'.

I didn't use EU every time, only when it suited me to get into Dash's donut or out of Corrans arc. So some rounds I used TL which was obvious better even than predator. You're right though some things the list was missing points for was Rebel captive and Isard. Should I drop DC for those points on RAC?

RAC

Predator

Rebel Captive

Isard

Jerrjod?

EU

Soontir

Stealth

PTL

Hull?

I'd take Mara Jade over Moff J. Being able to stress at Range 1 is very valuable against Phantoms and Dash. Although you run the risk of taking a difficult Crit, I don't see Moff J being worth the 2 pts and the crew slot.

Good points all as I have not played against a Decimator Phantom list. My meta is probably 60-70% rebels so I was primarilary working to counter Dash and Corran. Having that extra ship (Dark Curse) helped there with blocking and an extra two dice. I threw him right I to the fray with the mindset of: 'attack him because he's a threat and each round then is a round my Decimator isn't being targeted' or 'ignore him and he'll wear you down slowly with 2-3 more Attack dice'.

I didn't use EU every time, only when it suited me to get into Dash's donut or out of Corrans arc. So some rounds I used TL which was obvious better even than predator. You're right though some things the list was missing points for was Rebel captive and Isard. Should I drop DC for those points on RAC?

RAC

Predator

Rebel Captive

Isard

Jerrjod?

EU

Soontir

Stealth

PTL

Hull?

That's a tough call. I think the switch makes Whisper a tougher match-up for you but lets you go toe to toe with other Decimators. Your original list gives you two ships that were well positioned to throw Whisper a quick beat down. It seems like now you'll just be swapping shots with other Decimator builds and a little more at the mercy of the dice. It seems like VI Dash and VI Corran both become tougher match-ups for you as well.

The other thing to consider is Fat Han. I think a lot of folks are distracted by the new shinnies but a lot of the popular Wave 5 builds may have an uphill battle against someone that trots out the Falcon and 3 Zs build that they've been playing with for the past year. Can either RAC or Soontir finish off a half health Fat Han by themselves?

Yea, totally excellent points. I think that's why I liked DC or even Backstabber. Both of those are also targeting the opponents (insert fat ship) to help get some more firepower on those big ships. Cause against a fat han list if you don't kill han you lose.

What you people's thoughts on this build to counter the Wave 5 turret meta and Fat Han? PS10 Rexler would shoot any phantom first, and Rexler's ability with HLC could spell bad news for Decimators. Soontir with Stealth is always a hard ship to take down too. I was debating on DC or Backstabber, but I think the extra die would help with a 3 ship build.

99 pts

Rexler

- HLC

- VI

- Stealth

Soontir

- PTL

- Stealth

- Targeting Computer

- Royal Guard Title

Backstabber