I know what you mean - its either a missile hits or misses - if it hits the target is dead....

In X-Wing this would be:

"If this attack hits the target ship, the ship suffers 4 damage. Then cancel all dice results."

Those missiles would be quite nasty.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again. Seperate accuracy from damage, and have damage be a fixed amount.

Example Proton torpedo MK II

Range 2-3

attack: 2

If this attack hits, deal 4 damage cards to the target, with the last card being face up. Ignore attack roll for damage purposes.

So, high agility ships have a good chance to avoid it, but if it connects, it does 3 auto hits and 1 crit, whihc are not cancelled by tokens or dice.

for concussion, something similar, but probably 3 attack and 3 regular hits if it connects.

Doing 4 dmg is a little much.

Sure they could use a buff bit still

I think being able to use them easier, and reduce cost would be more balanced

Couple bombers would wreak havoc on low agility ships.

Makes sense fluff wise, but the game need balance

So many potential fixes.. most of them invalidate existing cards, if any fix is done, it MUST not make every previous expansion obsolete, or require reprinting every ordnance card.

I still think getting to use the required action in the attack as the way to go. Using the TL for your missiles and/or torpedoes makes them worthwhile without breaking them.

I've always been a fan of this as a fix. Just allow the TL to remain, makes those high dice shots very deadly, instead of a spray and pray effect we have today.

I've used the homing missiles a few times for ***** n giggles, they are actually quite effective, but a few points over priced for what they do. If the other missiles/torps had the same effect at their reduced costs, it would go a long way in solving the ordinance problem.

This would do nothing for the homing missile... but at least the rest of them would become useful.

Re-Arming Mechanism (Modification): 1 Point [might be more... not sure]

When instructed to "discard" a missile, bomb or torpedo, place it on top of this card instead. While here, cards may not be played.

Action: Take one missile, bomb or torpedo card from this card and place it next to your ship.

This would do nothing for the homing missile...

Which is a problem. Unless they're going to completely write off the homing missile, or do something else with it. Keeping your TL won't happen.

This would do nothing for the homing missile...

Which is a problem. Unless they're going to completely write off the homing missile, or do something else with it. Keeping your TL won't happen.

they could say that no evades could cancel the attack (dice or tokens!) 5 points for 3-4 guaranteed damage? That's very close to being worth it to me.

they could say that no evades could cancel the attack

They aren't going to do that. They'll errata a card because something is wrong with it. Like they did with Expert Handling. But they're not going to make that kind of change to an existing card based on things they've said.

Doing something like that is akin to changing the HWK to 2 attack, and they don't seem to want to do things like that.

Myself I'd prefer it if they were willing to do things like that, and keeping your TL is a fix I think could work quite well. But FFG has made it clear that about the only way they want to fix things is by putting new upgrades into the game.

This would do nothing for the homing missile... but at least the rest of them would become useful.

Not true. The homing missile becomes one of the most accurate pieces of ordnance in the game. It would ignore every type of evade.

The torp and missile fix that TIE mentioned and I thought more about wouldn't require any cards to change, only new rules cards in the vein of cloak or ion. One to define the missile and the other to define the torp.

It would ignore every type of evade.

No it wouldn't. What the person you quoted was talking about is that you don't spend the TL to fire the weapon. Which is what Homing Missiles do right now.

One to define the missile and the other to define the torp.

Perhaps, but that doesn't seem to be how FFG likes to do things. It changes how the whole system works and so the new rules card would need to be in the package with every ship that has a torp or missile. Otherwise you have people doing it the old way, because they haven't gotten the new rules cards.

FFG is quite intent on making sure that everyone's play experience is roughly the same, so my pilot X with upgrade Y and Z function the same as your pilot X with upgrade Y and Z. A lot of these changes would go against that concept. That's why they use upgrade cards rather than errata.

True, I misread the above post.

With regards to the rules, it's not a rules change in the sense of altering the main rulebook, but a rules addition. It's adding a rule that doesn't currently exist for a subset of upgrade options, much the same way they add rules for upgrade options or new actions. I don't understand how player X's experience would be different from player Y's with the introduction of a new rule card. Especially with the fact that they would likely have an article highlighting the change on the website. It would quickly become common knowledge.

You're right, the new rule card would be packaged with every ship from here on out, but it would be a cleaner fix than a bunch of individual titles or upgrades. This option also doesn't really function against how FFG "likes" to do things, because its not a major rules change to the main rule book. There's no precedent for it, but all this really shows is that it's never happened, not that it couldn't. There was no rules precedent for a negative cost card, but the Chardaan Refit changed that (and I don't think anyone could have predicted that would actually happen).

My favourite suggestion by a long way is ordnance cancelling all evades if it hits.

So just like a Proxy Mine hit?

Kind of. The defender still rolls evades, and if the attacker misses it still deals no damage. However, if it hits all the evades are cancelled: you don't get a proton torpedo hit dealing one damage any more.

The biggest problem is that the rule is printed on the card.

You will need to find a way to change the rules without having to change the word on the card. Having a errata on the FAQ that says "Ignore [this sentence] on [this card]" is out of the question!

Title: tbd

Type: Modification

Cost: 0

At the start of the combat phase If you have a Missile or Torpedo upgrade equipped, You may acquire a free Target Lock.

There is still the alternative to 'tap' the cards rather then discard them, use an action to untap - like in Star Trek Attack Wing

or to have a timer running when its usable again (e.g. usable again in 2 rounds) - like in D&D Attack Wing.

Something like this would be plausible at least with Tie Bombers (and Y-Wings)

This is a very, very good suggestion. You bring out an ordnance additional rule card saying:

If a Torpedo, Missile or Bomb card instructs you to discard it, instead tap it. Tapped upgrade cards can not be used. Untap the card after your next turn.

That would also give ships with multiple Torp or Missile slots the advantage that they would always have something to fire with provided they pay for it.

Munitions failsafe would just mean then that you don't tap the card if you don't hit. Still an excellent mod!

The only issue with the tap (going to use exhaust, to coincide with Fantasy Flight's other star wars game, imperial assault) is that it goes to the other spectrum of how many torpedoes a ship can cary. People complain that by lore a ship should have x amount of torpedoes, well what if you fire off the torpedoes 17 times in a battle? All of a sudden the ship has unlimited ordnance? That seems a bit drastic.

If anything it would be better to do a token system. You pay the price for the ordnance as listed and recieve a token. Then spend 1 point for each additional token. The only issue is invalidating a whole slew of card text.

Also, firing off torpedoes, and attacking in general is an abstract concept. Each roll of the dice does nor equate a pull of the trigger. So the payload is abstracted as well.

I think my point is that with an additional rule card for missiles, you wouldn't have to do any reprints. The specific rules that apply to different missiles, say concussion missiles, still apply. Those cards are not obsolete.

Imagine the usefulness of a cluster missile or ion pulse with the added missile ability to cancel all evade dice results.

The only issue with the tap (going to use exhaust, to coincide with Fantasy Flight's other star wars game, imperial assault) is that it goes to the other spectrum of how many torpedoes a ship can cary. People complain that by lore a ship should have x amount of torpedoes, well what if you fire off the torpedoes 17 times in a battle? All of a sudden the ship has unlimited ordnance? That seems a bit drastic.

If anything it would be better to do a token system. You pay the price for the ordnance as listed and recieve a token. Then spend 1 point for each additional token. The only issue is invalidating a whole slew of card text.

Also, firing off torpedoes, and attacking in general is an abstract concept. Each roll of the dice does nor equate a pull of the trigger. So the payload is abstracted as well.

Well i would not mind this type of unlimited ordnance. How many rounds do your games usually take? 15-20 is already a very long game i think. Then you could fire your torps 7-10 times? That does not sound awful to me, especially since on many turns you will be at the wrong range, have no one in arc, have tapped ordnance whike you could use it, have no TL/Focus because of stress, being dead etc. It's also logical. Look at the card titles. They say Proton Torpedoes, Concussion Missiles, Proximity mines, plural!!!

And i am not so convinced that every shot does not equal one Torp or a double tap at least.

And then you do still pay a healthy price for ordnance compared to cannons and turrets. So i think it would stay surprisingly balanced!

A token system would be an alternative, but it would be very complicated. How many shots does each ordnance type get?

The more i think about it, the better i like Starkillers idea really. Suddenly, we would not see any Chardaan refits on A-Wings anymore...

I think my point is that with an additional rule card for missiles, you wouldn't have to do any reprints. The specific rules that apply to different missiles, say concussion missiles, still apply. Those cards are not obsolete.

Imagine the usefulness of a cluster missile or ion pulse with the added missile ability to cancel all evade dice results.

Giving a ship more shots of ordinance doesn't necessarily resolve it's effectiveness. The shot still lacks accuracy for the price being paid. It also has the opposite effect of competing with cannon upgrades. Who would pay 7 points for a 4 attack shot, when you can pay 4 for one that lasts multiple turns?

I disagree, because the shot is still one shot and evade tokens become more important.

Giving a ship more shots of ordinance doesn't necessarily resolve it's effectiveness. The shot still lacks accuracy for the price being paid. It also has the opposite effect of competing with cannon upgrades. Who would pay 7 points for a 4 attack shot, when you can pay 4 for one that lasts multiple turns?

Because you can only fire it every second turn and need TL, etc. And ordnance is effective, just being one use is its no go thing why nobody wants it.

I disagree, because the shot is still one shot and evade tokens become more important.

If you hit all 4 on a concussion missile, Soontir is dead if we stick to that. This is utter nonsense.